Curse

Alex Morningstar · Jun 12, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

So I come back after not playing GW in a while, definately not logging on Guru for a while and I see a thread posted by Avarre to Anet. Thinking, damn it has 20 pages, it should be at least a page of lols mixed in with the other crap. So I read. Avarre, as usual, speaks truth. I continue reading because I was curious not to as what players would say, because I know what you mouth breathing retards (or highly intelligent human beings!) are going to type for the most part. I wanted to see if Anet would answer at all, and if they did what they'd say.

I wasn't expecting an answer at all. After 2+ years of playing the game; change and then the corresponding bitching doesn't usually create an answer beyond an automated response from a customer service machine or a carefully empty response from Gaile now Regina. Anet never was really big on telling anyone what they were up to until it was already happening or right about to happen, if they told anyone at all. That's fine, I didn't mind my bimonthly updates with minimal notes (that I would have to look up) about bug fixes and skill balances. I suppose it's kind of like getting a hooker for the night. Get your bang for your buck and get the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO out right?

In retrospect, I discover, this wasn't terribly unusual, as before now my online games consisted of early Blizzard favorites of the space-faring or demon-slaying variety. Updates were released in large patches that you had to spend a half hour to download, by the end of which I really didn't give a shit what they fixed. There was no semblence of a name to a face for this process as far as I can tell, not that I looked for one.

But I moved on to another MMO since Guild Wars, yes a subscription, no, it's not WoW. The difference between the community relation between my other game and GW is staggering. There are developers, several CR all posting on a unified forum and wiki system that are tied together. Guild Wars, according to the rather empty response generated by Regina, is hampered by having a handful of different websites with members that would trip over themselves to get them answers to the questions they would ask, should they ever ask. Nevermind something as silly as a link to an official poll they could slide into their login screen. They have people who will basically do their own damn jobs for them, for free. Nevermind that any retarded monkey that could type could figure out what the hell people think about their product. They have various sources, many of which are not accountable to them so they can get the quick and dirty along with the brown-nosing asskissers. But no, it's too hard to use google and spend an hour a day power reading through (read: past) some 12 year olds lolcat post.

Before I left, I thought GW was awesome sauce. I didn't really want to find a new game, because I liked this one, but when I left, I saw why it was everyone left before me, was leaving with me, and will leave after me. Anet, you dropped the damn ball and your tactics of burying your head in the sand was/is sealing the deal, the only reason people are sticking around as long as they do are usually because of their guildies anymore. Even after screwing up NF and GWEN, you could have fixed it if you wanted to. If only you were to try.

I think all anyone wants anymore is a straight answer. I am leaving GW feeling like a guinea pig for GW2 and still have no idea how GW2 is going to end up. I'm not going to be buying GW2 when it first comes out. I'll wait for someone else to be the test subject this time.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 12, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Well then, I guess my 'minority view' is the most credible thing on the face of this earth.
That aside, I think we both know that applying a subjective viewpoint to something that is already subjective won't go anywhere.

Russell again says it better than I can.

"The demand for certainty is one which is natural to man, but is nevertheless an intellectual vice. ... But so long as men are not trained to withhold judgment in the absence of evidence, they will be led astray by cocksure prophets, and it is likely that their leaders will be either ignorant fanatics or dishonest charlatans. To endure uncertainty is difficult, but so are most of the other virtues."[

Deathly_Overlord · Jun 12, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

I think a developer's blog would be an excellent idea, as I have seen very little in news regarding GW2, I would be happy even if it said " Today we had a meeting about what colour the box will be"

lyra_song · Jun 12, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Russell again says it better than I can.

"The demand for certainty is one which is natural to man, but is nevertheless an intellectual vice. ... But so long as men are not trained to withhold judgment in the absence of evidence, they will be led astray by cocksure prophets, and it is likely that their leaders will be either ignorant fanatics or dishonest charlatans. To endure uncertainty is difficult, but so are most of the other virtues."[

Heres some certainty.

SOME PLAYERS DONT LIKE WHAT ANET IS DOING

queen glory · Jun 12, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

I am not gonna read all the 20 pages, but did we get ant respond from Anet yet?

Deathly_Overlord · Jun 12, 2008, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Lol @ Lyra and yes we did, though it manouvered around what was asked.

Airstu · Jun 12, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Here is some more certainty

SOME PLAYERS LIKE WHAT ANET IS DOING

You can close the thread now, I think its all been covered

Lopezus · Jun 12, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

New content does not need to include new skills and classes. It can include areas/quests/missions/items and so on. The relentless adding of classes and skills has a lot to do with balance issues, and that's a trap Guild Wars built itself into and didn't manage to escape.

Of course it does not need but

Quote:

Of course new skills and classes are fun

so they thought it's good idea.( and seeing people eager to give a try with new class it wasn't missed idea)

Quote:

ANet built the expectation that each new release would come with more skills and classes. If new chapters had come with new continents without the new classes from the start, I seriously doubt sales figures would have been heavily affected.

maybe yes, maybe no..it can't be verified now. So it's only how succesful are they sales figures from content they delivered.

Quote:

It might have also given more time for better development on the released chapters, since there's always room for improvement.

Sure thing but why it's not happaning and i mean so many games: devs are idiots ?, possesed by greed ?, losing their minds after initial succes ? And i really saw these question being asked so many times before "This could be a perfect game but it's only great/good/medicore, why ?"

Jetdoc · Jun 12, 2008, 06:13 PM // 18:13

I think the better certainty is...

SOME PLAYERS WANT TO KNOW WHY ANET IS DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING

trialist · Jun 12, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

We're currently exploring ways in which we can use technology to collect feedback in a more intelligent and visible way. If you have any suggestions, please let us know.

You know, it has been said before many times in many different threads by many different people, but i guess it needs to be said again. It isn't so much so that anet doesn't hear the community, that anet ignores its fanbase, but rather that anet fails at the implementation of whatever suggestions and ideas that the community provides it with.

To go along with the theme of my previous post, anet needs to handle the problem at its roots and the root of the problem is that anet fails at implementation. Yep, repeat after me, anet fails at implementation. Having seen anet's track record of implementing suggestions in GW, i don't have much faith in anet doing a better job even if they come up with new ways to get feedback. Ultimately they will still fail where it matters most, at the stage of implementation, which is really the only stage that matters IMO. Good suggestions turn to crap with bad implementation.

Now this problem is compounded by the fact that anet doesn't really let on, on what they are currently doing/working on. There is a "wall" between the players and the devs that isn't really bridged by the CR team (some would argue the CR team is the "wall"). As such, you have a situation where players are suddenly "dropped the bomb" so to speak, when certain suggestions are implemented out of the blue and in questionable ways as well.

Seriously fix the problem within yourselves and come up with a game direction for gw along with more transparency/communication of dev decisions, before you go asking us for suggestions and feedback cause obviously we are the symptoms and anet is the root of the problem.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 12, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Heres some certainty.

SOME PLAYERS DONT LIKE WHAT ANET IS DOING

I post on Guru, because I like the give and take it provides. I also know that because I post on Guru does not make me part of any great majority of GW players. When you say some players, you should be saying a portion of the Guru posters don't like what ANET is doing. I think for the so called average players (which I consider myself) don't get as upset about things as some people here do. Things like Ursan may be overpowered and maybe only should be allowed in GWEN and not the rest of GW. That said I paid the same money as the rest of you, so please don't tell me what is right and wrong for me.

DarkNecrid · Jun 12, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

ps

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
we really have no control and have no right to demand change.

Basic consumer and marketing and economic law.

Read up on it.

Consumers have the right to complain, and request/demand (note: he isn't demanding) change.
Producers have right to read complaints, and deny or process change.

Taking away the right to either is dictatorship, and goes against the fundamentals of a democratic economic system.

thnx.

Bryant Again · Jun 12, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

Of course it does not need but

Quote:

Of course new skills and classes are fun

so they thought it's good idea.( and seeing people eager to give a try with new class it wasn't missed idea)

"'Fun' (for the PvE crowd) at the cost of another population's (PvP) expense". Not the most well thought-out idea, is it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I post on Guru, because I like the give and take it provides. I also know that because I post on Guru does not make me part of any great majority of GW players. When you say some players, you should be saying a portion of the Guru posters don't like what ANET is doing. I think for the so called average player (which I consider myself) don't get as upset about things as some people here do. Things like Ursan may be overpowered and maybe only should be allowed in GWEN and not the rest of GW. That said I paid the same money as the rest of you, so please don't tell me what is right and wrong for me.

Did you miss my post?

Jetdoc · Jun 12, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

When you say some players, you should be saying a portion of the Guru posters [B]don't like what ANET is doing.

Isn't that the same thing as "some players"?

:dunno:

Ctb · Jun 12, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Somebody should summarize the OP and responses for us lazy people. I don't care enough about a video game and its players' opinions to actually read all this, but I'm amused enough by the controversy it's generated to be interested nonetheless...

What horrible quandaries my life presents me...

Tyla · Jun 12, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I post on Guru, because I like the give and take it provides. I also know that because I post on Guru does not make me part of any great majority of GW players. When you say some players, you should be saying a portion of the Guru posters don't like what ANET is doing. I think for the so called average players (which I consider myself) don't get as upset about things as some people here do. Things like Ursan may be overpowered and maybe only should be allowed in GWEN and not the rest of GW. That said I paid the same money as the rest of you, so please don't tell me what is right and wrong for me.

I post on Guru because I care about the game and the game's state as a whole.

How is diverting the direction of the game a good thing? You tell me, but in the end, players who care about the game, and believe that it is the most dynamic gameplay they have seen, will post on here and explain how they feel about the situation.

Having a bond between a gaming company and it's players should improve the game, because the gaming company understands what those players believe is best for the game. Top players of any game often join forums to share their opinions and thoughts, simple as.

Either way, misdirection of the game's original design, or any game for that matter, is a bad thing.

Airstu · Jun 12, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Summary:

A bunch of people are either not happy or happy with a game and each other depending on whether or not they agreed/disagreed with their perceived level of (un)happiness.

SirSausage · Jun 12, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan

I'm sorry Regina , but this time you disappoint me .
I normally like your short and hard style of answering but now ; Well you sound like me on my oral exams . I basically say the question 10 times in different ways with short answers in between and the teacher thinks i did great because i answered him fluently without actually giving firm responses .

You didn't really answer any of Avarre's or Nolan's questions .

I know it's hard to please all people with responses but please next time ; skip the intellectual fooling around the questions and give us real answers .

Friendly greets , Alex

QFT
Regina, seriously, your response answered only like 5% of Avarre's post.
Cut the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO crap and respond to us as a normal person, not like the uber-serious business representative. We need clear, and most importantly SIMPLE answers.
I don't think it's difficult to change your way of talking, now is it?

Creeping Carl · Jun 12, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

That's true, which is why i never said everybody was a follower. I agree with a fair bit of the OP but many people are jumping on the bandwagon wielding pitchforks and torches... hating for the sake of hating.

I'm curious. Just who is jumping on the bandwagon here? Because I see most everyone here who is in agreement with the OP are regulars who have had this same view for a long time, at least, for as long as I've lurked on this forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I post on Guru, because I like the give and take it provides. I also know that because I post on Guru does not make me part of any great majority of GW players. When you say some players, you should be saying a portion of the Guru posters don't like what ANET is doing. I think for the so called average players (which I consider myself) don't get as upset about things as some people here do. Things like Ursan may be overpowered and maybe only should be allowed in GWEN and not the rest of GW. That said I paid the same money as the rest of you, so please don't tell me what is right and wrong for me.

I dont understand why you're so "upset" at others being "upset" enough to have a civilized discussion of the state of the game.

And uh yeah, doesnt "SOME PLAYERS" mean the same thing as a "portion" of the players? I dont understand your nitpicking here.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 12, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

"'Fun' (for the PvE crowd) at the cost of another population's (PvP) expense". Not the most well thought-out idea, is it?

Did you miss my post?

"It's just knowing who to listen to that can become difficult. But to simply ignore and dismiss *all* player feedback is a terrible decision."

I assume this is what you were referring to. Could it be that some things are in game because people asked for such things? Then once they are implemented and don't work as they wanted them to, they now complain that they should be removed. Where is there any proof that ANET doesn't listen? To listen doesn't mean to do every little thing requested.