Curse

Mac Sidewinder · Jun 10, 2008, 03:38 AM // 03:38

First of all I don't think that most of the people (including me) would have farmed something else and paid over 575,000 in gold to buy someone's ecto for FoW armor. I think what's happening now is most of the people that wanted FoW armor can now farm it themselves, and this is making people cry about it.

Second, ecto is used for currency where as DOA gems are not. The only use for the gems was for a specific item. When the demand for that item loses value then the gems lose value. Ecto can and will be used for many different items so their demand is much greater which will keep their value up.

Third, I think the amount of ecto taken out of UW lately is a very small percentage of all the ecto currently on the market. If this game was going to be around another 3 years then I would agree with you that eventually it might affect the market. Right now I don't see that happening.

The extra ecto on the market is allowing more and more people to spend money on things they normally wouldn't be able to. This is allowing more and more people to be able to sell things that might have taken them longer than normal to sell.

All in all, atleast for now, I think this is one of the best things that could have happened to the economy. Sort of like the current stimulus plan going on in the real economy right now.

As far as this getting nerfed, I don't really think so. Anet's plan is to keep the players interested until GW2 and this is one way to do that. Players will be able to get alot of the things that they have wanted for a long time easier now. And lets face it, GW only has to last another year or so till Anet can just let it die since most players will move to GW2. Don't be suprised to see Anet implement other similar things to keep the playerbase interested.

strcpy · Jun 10, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

My speculating about THOUSANDS is based purely on facts - on the massive increase in demand for sin goods, on the number of new sins I see in Kaineng and earlier areas, and on rune trader looking like at Factions release 2 years ago.

Worst case scenario is that we go back to the old 105 prot bond monks which is when most of the long term players consider to be "The Golden Age" due to the ease of obtaining ecto. SF hasn't even come close to reaching those levels then. Once that build was in the wild anyone with a 105 monk had their obsidian armor quickly and easily.

Of course, what it caused then was massive inflation - we aren't in an economy based on true scarcity even with the traders. You can't run out of ecto nor can any individual corner the market. It may work similar to real markets but it isn't one and has other rules.

If anything this will create two classes of people - those that have a SF sin and can afford what they want and those that don't and can't get normal crafting material or minor runes. You play until you happen to get lucky and have the runes needed drop for your sin, purchase your crappy armor, and then go farm ecto. Anything else means you simply can not afford to play the game - do that or don't play. This is *exactly* what happened back then, Anet finally nerfed it when the gap between them (and the price of most items) became so high new players couldn't even afford a single set of base armor without many many many hours playing. I payed significantly more for my crappy armor from Ascalon city than I did for my armor at Droks (having purchased my Ascalon armor right before the nerf and my Droks after the economy stabilized) - having people have enough cash to totally equip heroes will make this even worse.

We don't have to speculate or argue theory about what will happen if Ecto become too easy to farm that anyone can do it - we have had that happen and have reality to see it by. All we need to determine is if this skill will will make it that easy or not. Time will tell.

Mac Sidewinder · Jun 10, 2008, 03:49 AM // 03:49

I wasn't around then strcpy, how long after the nerf did it take for the economy to stabilize? How long did Anet allow this type of farming to continue unabated until they nerfed prot bond? This is all pretty interesting.

If this sf farming starts going the way that it did back then I would whole heartedly support a nerf but until then I simply see people being able to get some things that they normally wouldn't be able to.

As you say I guess time will tell.

Chthon · Jun 10, 2008, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

This is *exactly* what happened back then, Anet finally nerfed it when the gap between them (and the price of most items) became so high new players couldn't even afford a single set of base armor without many many many hours playing.

How exactly does the market price of anything affect base armor prices? Armor crafters craft at a fixed cost. Merchants sell salvage kits at a fixed cost. Every common material can be easily salvaged for. And I think every class has at least one base armor set that uses no rare materials or only rare materials that can be crafted by an artisan for a fixed price. Am i missing something here?

strcpy · Jun 10, 2008, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Sidewinder

I wasn't around then strcpy, how long after the nerf did it take for the economy to stabilize? How long did Anet allow this type of farming to continue unabated until they nerfed prot bond? This is all pretty interesting.

How long to recover? Hard to say - the economy as a whole I remember as being fairly quick. As I said I spent more on my Ascalon armor than on my Droks so only a month at most. But then quite a number of the current really rich people made their money then and they kept prices of certain items up for years. I would say that over all a couple of months for everything to mostly settle and then a later change to drop rates for sup vigors and sup absorption runes to really make it such that most could afford base items (this is the point I feel is the "Golden Age" of GW). It was a *long* time before I could get a popular 15k armor or black dye.

I also made off fairly well once I got to where I could farm Ettins outside of Beetletun for sup runes - this was while the prices were changing so I sorta made OK from the whole thing. At the least it funded three other characters one of which was a full time farmer.

As to how long did they allow the farming you will have to ask others. When I started the build was known enough to be abused but not so well that everyone had one. It was a month or two before the nerf. I know how long it was out in the wild from old forum posts but I don't know long it was well known enough to be abused.

I did a simple search for older threads - I recall many - but am too lazy to find better. You will note that http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ack+dye+prices is finding prices we would find unacceptable today to be "normal". You will also not what people are talking about the upper realms and confused as to how people had this much gold. It was the 105 monk - if you read other threads you will note many finding out about it

You will also note that a thread from 2005 sounds exactly the same as one from now even though back then was the Golden Age when everything was Perfect.

Quote:

If this sf farming starts going the way that it did back then I would whole heartedly support a nerf but until then I simply see people being able to get some things that they normally wouldn't be able to.

My feeling too. I don't see any reason to nerf something until/unless it causes a problem.

[QUOTE=Chthon]How exactly does the market price of anything affect base armor prices? Armor crafters craft at a fixed cost. Merchants sell salvage kits at a fixed cost. Every common material can be easily salvaged for.[quote]

Mostly true - but when you can only salvage the stuff outside of Ascalon city you get after several party wipes it take ages to get the materials. You couldn't get anything other than pre-sear armor and had to salvage everything and then you had to be active enough in forums to know this to be the case (no wiki or no other resource - plus everyone else was new too and didn't know what things salvaged into).

The bigger issue was with runes. Though back then you didn't know what you would get when you expert salvaged your old armor either - a rune or some materials used for your armor (that *really* sucked given the prices of runes). But then that is more than offset by outfitting heroes - I purchase more runes now than I did back then as I made sure I purchased armor so I had as few salvages as possible.

Quote:

And I think every class has at least one base armor set that uses no rare materials or only rare materials that can be crafted by an artisan for a fixed price. Am i missing something here?

Yes, it is a new player and the system was vastly different then. It's not nearly as big a deal now as it was then - we have enough out there that dedicated players can find what they need and you don't have the exact same issues with loosing items. Purchasing base armor will not be as big a pain but Runes will still have the same issues (and probably worse because of heroes).

But, again, it requires *dedicated* players. Common materials and most minors *should* be affordable. It is the same issue I eventually have found with other MMO's - I reach a point where a single death requires me to spend enough time to redo what I have already done that it isn't worth it. For many the exp loss is not worth worry about, for me it was. I want to mostly go play the game, not be a dedicated player.

I'm not sure how the new changes would interact there - however we have seen that it mostly causes inflation. Mainly because Ecto is the currency for high end stuff (both the armor and other items) it causes the top to medium end people to be flush with cash. They can spend like crazy on anything and do so. It makes it such that the items to farm those ecto are out of reach by purchasing - you have to find them. Everything else goes up because those people can spend what they want and are competing against each other to get stuff. At least now there are enough options that someone who comes on here or reads the wiki can find a semi-solution that requires some work - back then no such luck.

higaru · Jun 10, 2008, 08:51 AM // 08:51

emmm, can i have that sin SF built asap please?!

foo · Jun 10, 2008, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by higaru

emmm, can i have that sin SF built asap please?!

earth:
OwZSk4PTSf8I6MID8Q5iTQpZ
fire:
OwZToY/85R6zj0ZIDcRw4WMBBA

I personally found this fire one much faster, but go ahead and try for yourself.

nightwatchman · Jun 10, 2008, 01:41 PM // 13:41

I don't understand how people think that ecto prices will affect the prices of high end values. Ecto's are just a replacement for gold. We're lucky in GW that gold itself still has a value.

So when someone is trying to sell Kunnavang for 100k+20e, they're actually asking for around 200k.

If the ecto price were to drop to 2.5k each, that same seller would be asking 100k+40e. The value of his Kuunavang hasn't changed.

Any drop in ecto price will make FoW Armor and Chaos gloves cheaper, and it will hurt hoarders that are sat on a couple of stack of ectos, but it won't affect the high end prices. The guys that could sit on stacks of ectos have probably invested in armbraces recently to catch the extra demand from the Hall of Monuments update so they should be fine too.

The High end prices are effected by rarity and demand, and by and large I think demand is going to keep dropping as there have never been many players that would pay 5 mill for an item and many of these seem to be retiring.

BenjZee · Jun 10, 2008, 02:39 PM // 14:39

You summed that up pretty well, i don't mind about this whole SF thing. Therse always something to change the economy, this is just the latest fad. If the game never changed it would get boring quick

Stoneys Rock · Jun 10, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Don't care about underworld farming, people will farm it and will try to until they find one that works.

I, myself farmed about 20 ectos lightly over 3 days then stopped because I got bored. If you can honestly have the patience to farm 50 a day then I give all the luck to you.

Hell arena-net doesn't need to touch shadow form if they feel like stopping this. Its just like the 55hp build all over again with the dying nightmares. Just shove aload of charged blacknesses into the mix. Hell if they want to be funny make dying blacknesses pop up with just shock.

Nightow · Jun 10, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneys Rock

Hell arena-net doesn't need to touch shadow form if they feel like stopping this. Its just like the 55hp build all over again with the dying nightmares. Just shove aload of charged blacknesses into the mix. Hell if they want to be funny make dying blacknesses pop up with just shock.

lol, why not just have them go N/E? That'll really get on people's nerves.

Genius Was Revrac · Jun 10, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

This update to SF has allowed me to average 5-6ecto every 22-25 minutes with spikes as high as 11ecto and the occasional ruby,saph,black,white dye. Yes, when you look at my last statement the first assumption would be HOLY C*** and this cant possibly be good for the GW economy. I thought as much until i really added in all the factors. First, Ecto is a stored currency and is not sold to trader very often, threfore the prices remain stable. Secondly, the vast majority of GW players do not have pvE sin's and play the game only an hour/day at most. Third, A-net has kept the price of Ecto around 4.5-5.5k for over 16 months through all the different farming builds. Ecto is the staple of the GW economy and will remain so until GW2. Although more Ecto is being shipped out of Uw every minute this is not being sold to the merchant and thus we are safe to farm til our desires are satiated. The only problem i see is with those disgruntled veterans who only want to reminisce about the "good old days" where only a select few had money and those that had it could rub it in others faces. Then again that is only my humble opinion

The Way Out · Jun 10, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Prior to people complaining about sins, sins sucked in PvE. They were primarily boss killers. Now, sins are needed. Before the creation of the SF sin, we had the terra tank. Before then we had the 600/smite group or 55/SS. Before then VWK. Before then the 55. There have always been gimmick builds that work for areas. Who cares?

Ecto are rarely ever sold at the merchant. They are normally horded or exchanged for armor. They are one piece of the economy, not the deciding factor of the economy. I watch Ecto drop over the years and feel okay with it leveling around 5k a piece. I have accepted the fact that there will always be someone creating a build that can solo an area. There will always be someone who will complain about it. Changes will always be made. There are constant factors in any online game.

Chthon · Jun 10, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightwatchman

I don't understand how people think that ecto prices will affect the prices of high end values. Ecto's are just a replacement for gold. We're lucky in GW that gold itself still has a value.

So when someone is trying to sell Kunnavang for 100k+20e, they're actually asking for around 200k.

If the ecto price were to drop to 2.5k each, that same seller would be asking 100k+40e. The value of his Kuunavang hasn't changed.

Any drop in ecto price will make FoW Armor and Chaos gloves cheaper, and it will hurt hoarders that are sat on a couple of stack of ectos, but it won't affect the high end prices. The guys that could sit on stacks of ectos have probably invested in armbraces recently to catch the extra demand from the Hall of Monuments update so they should be fine too.

The High end prices are effected by rarity and demand, and by and large I think demand is going to keep dropping as there have never been many players that would pay 5 mill for an item and many of these seem to be retiring.

1. I still really doubt that the price of ectos will fall.

2. This post perfectly sums up why, even if the price of ectos does fall, the sky won't. I think it should be required reading for posting in this thread.

Nude Nira · Jun 10, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuarodger

time to put all that money in rubies and sapphires.

Those drop from UW too, I got 2 rubies and a sapphire in one of my runs.^^

Although, I hope they don't nerf perma SF, it opens up a lot of new, easy, safe ways for people to make money, it always helps the noobs get money, which Anet will like.^^

Legendary Shiz · Jun 10, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Last I checked ectos were at 4.8 at the trader. They would magically raise back up to 5.5 sporadically, and then fall somehwere back around 4.8. Haven't checked it in a few hours, but last I did they were at 4.8 at trader.

Not saying they're going to stay at these prices, but they have been dropping then magically going back up.

the Puppeteer · Jun 10, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

1 ecto = 1 z key...
...
...
2 ectos = 1 z key...
...
...

you get the point...

kvndoom · Jun 10, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

What cracks me up the most about this thread is 3 years of hearing about PVP elitists trying to ruin the game for others.

Stockholm · Jun 10, 2008, 09:43 PM // 21:43

As long as money/ectos are easy to get the gold sellers will have a harder time. If A-Net tightens up the economy like the horders want the gold selling market will explode again.

DarklingKiller · Jun 10, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Seams to me that A-Net have woken up and realised GW is a game for ALL players, not only a small click of players.
The majority of players are very happy, the rest can take a hike or get a real life. BTW. ectos are worthless when GW2 comes.

Is that why loads of guru users are making threads like this complaining about various overpowered skills? There use be many many threads about Ursan complaining until the guru mods got pissed. Everyday I see more and more people leaving the game because it gets too repetitive and there's no new content.

@EinherjarMx

Not much how about you? I barely log on anymore so I don't see you on anymore