Curse

Dante the Warlord · Jun 26, 2008, 02:39 PM // 14:39

So i don't know if this has happened to any of you but i start a group for the UW HM speed run and get everyone i need full 8/8 party took me nearly a half hour to make. Then I ask for who has consets and the party starts arguing... then one ele rage quits, causing a war to rage quite then everyone else... Now my question that i kinda brought up in my other thread ( which got moved to the warrior farming section, having absolutely nothing to deal with my questions) is who should have responsibility of having the consumable sets? I feel that the costs should be divided upon the 3 terra tanks and 1 perma sin. They obviously make the most money and they do about the same work as the ursan group... Ive seen people in there make up to 7 ectos at least one person a full run.. this doesn't happen all the time, but it at least happens 1/5 of the time maybe more. Now im only asking them to pay 3.5k each, which could easily be made back by one ecto drop, pretty much guaranteed in one run, besides the chest one. it really makes me angry when an ursan is the one to step up and buy the conset. Because 1 he might entirely lose all his money if the group fails, which happens a lot, or 2 he might end up just breaking even, which entirely destroys the point of farming.

Now another point i said above was failing. Yes it happens quite often when an inexperienced person overaggroes or the entire ursan group dies or even that people run out of rezzes (which i think all terras should have a rez scroll anyways). But even so, that 1/3 run that you do, usually pays itself back with a lot of profit.

My question is this, does anyone else who run these groups think that it should be terras and the perma sin to pay for the consumable set? If not please tell me why they should be excluded... I am absolutely tired of having the entire team pay for a set and having the terras leave making 50k of profit while i just barely made 1 ecto in money with some crappy golds and a few rare materials. Im really annoyed when my entire team breaks a part because of stupid things like this...

EDIT: Actually adding on to my idea, sometimes, even if the ursans all die and fails, the consets still run and the terras solo farm the rest of the way anyways.... I don't think the entire party should divide the costs either since 1 the leader usually had to work hard to get a team, IMHO the hardest part of the entire run because of all the rejected people calling him names and mass spaming him and the rage quitters who destroy the team.

Breakfast McRit, i don't think its fair if you end up losing or barely making any profit (its a "farm" after all), there may be one or two scenarios where an ursan luckily gets a eternal blade... but thats one and a hundred

Breakfast Mc Rit · Jun 26, 2008, 02:52 PM // 14:52

I think it doesn't matter who makes the most money, if you are going to play with a PUG then the entire party should divide the cost. It's an entirely different playing field when you can get friends together and split the costs the way you mutually deem fair.

willypiggy · Jun 26, 2008, 03:12 PM // 15:12

I never have consets tbh but I don't mind chipping in on a team conset, if everyone pays 1K each to the person who has them then thats fair, he gets 7K which is what they sell for.

romeus petrus · Jun 26, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Easy way, buy a conset on the spot, and make everyone in the team split it.

Rick_ · Jun 26, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

leader should have them
hate how pugs say "looking for 1 <whatever> with cons"

also i tend to argue the ursans should have them, until recently the argument was that a terra doesnt need cons, the ursans do. but with e/a terras everyone kinda relies on cons these days.

monks are never exempt, but definately the leader should use the first set

Abe Grey · Jun 26, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Here is a thought. Don't use the consets.

Rick_ · Jun 26, 2008, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Grey

Here is a thought. Don't use the consets.

ever tried that in a Hard Mode pug?

Dante the Warlord · Jun 26, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

I personally think that it is more the terras who NEED the cons. Terras can't solo without consets, but ursans can probably manage with some difficulty. Also, you need 2 consets so people have to buy two. Now looking at what usually happens a typical ursan (including monk) get 1-2 ectos total (including chest). now generally they usually only get one ecto (which is from the chest), a diamond, a scroll, and a bunch of golds... thats roughly 3.5k+1.5k+1k-2k= 4k a run at minimumplus a few crappy golds, maybe if lucky they MIGHT get a good perfect mod, which is not bad, but in perspective for terras/ perma sin they make 3-6 or 7 ecto a run and make 3.5k x 3 + 1.5k + 1k + 5k (they make at least 7 gold drops thus the 7 for 5k unded) - 2k = 16k. Thats four times the minimum of a regular ursan. Ursans do the same amount of work, ursans maybe even more, and ursan r 10 is VERY hard to reach.

Now I am both a terra and a monk so i speak for both sides of a party. I carry cons on my terra (although i am still learning how to farm well) and a monk. From looking at both sides i can see the unfairness, which i feel should at least be acknowledged.

Also Rick, I usually make my own groups and it is quite difficult dealing with all the people i rejected calling me noob for not accepting them into my group. it is also quite lengthy and sometimes unsuccessful. I have actually lost 7k just trying to compromise with rage quitters and consets...I feels that the leader should be respected and treated well for starting the group and working hard to make a working group....

Raku Clayman · Jun 26, 2008, 04:09 PM // 16:09

I run as an Ele/W Ursan in these groups. It's always that groups are posting LF more Ursans with consets. When the leader asks who has consets, no one speaks up. I always have consets and, as a rule, I think it is rude to join a group without bringing one. I mean everyone. Then it is a matter of who uses their consets. I used to always use my conset until I realized some people never bring them. Also, there is a little posturing to see who is going to use their's first, second, etc. I never minded using mine first except that many groups aren't that good, or people rage quit over the dumbest reasons. Because of this, I will only offer to use my conset every 3 or 4 times I go with a group. I always offer to pay a portion of the conset. I'm sad to say that I am in the minority. Most people just want a free ride and have no sense of responsibility to the group as a whole.

I think the only fair thing is for some people to offer their consets and the rest pay 1K for each conset used. It doesn't matter who gets what drops or who needs the consets because each member of the group needs the other members to complete the tasks.

I've been saying this for a while, that in the first year and a half, GW was played by really nice people who worked together and loved the game for what it was. In the last year and a half, the game is being populated by smarmy, whining, rude, children, who could care less about anybody but themselves. The addition of Ursan and consets has exacerbated the problem. It's funny how, A-net saw fit to nerf really intelligent skill sets like the 55-Monk, but, allows Ursans and consets, which brings out the worst behavior in players. To make things really fair, I would like to see Ursans and consets removed from the game.

TheRaven · Jun 26, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

I'm with Abe. I've completed UW, FOW and even DOA without them. They aren't needed. Unfortunately you can't find a pug nowadays that's good enough to go without them.

I go as an Ursan and yes I would prefer that the Terra's buy the cons since they get all the ectos on the run, however if the group agrees to split the cost among all party members then I'll go with that.

However, I'm rarely seeing anyone willing to share the cost. I tried to do 3 UW runs a few weeks ago and each time the group insisted that everyone bring cons and we use them one at a time. In this scenario the first person to use is bearing the full cost if the group wipes (and each time it wiped).

The first team wiped when an Ursan screwed up on the 4 horseman and brought down mass aggro on the reaper. The 2nd team wiped when a player teleported the team thus returning the soloing Terra to us. The terra threw a hissy fit and left. 3rd team wiped when the soloing terra died. We were heading over to rez him when the monks threw a hissy fit and left.

With so many teams failing within the first 30 minutes, the first con user is the big loser.

Raku Clayman · Jun 26, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

I usually make my own groups and it is quite difficult dealing with all the people i rejected calling me noob for not accepting them into my group. it is also quite lengthy and sometimes unsuccessful. I have actually lost 7k just trying to compromise with rage quitters and consets...I feels that the leader should be respected and treated well for starting the group and working hard to make a working group....

I defy you to tell me that you can tell who is a good player and who isn't, or, who is going to rage quit or be a jerk, when you are rejecting or accepting people. I have a hard time getting into groups sometimes, when I probably am a better player than 95% of the players in the group and have as many XP as all of them put together. In picking a group, you have no idea how good the players are unless you know them personally.

On the other hand, I hate making groups because of the hassle, so, I can't really complain if I am rejected for whatever reason.

Latham · Jun 26, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

I think i would have to agree that the leader should definetely have a conset handy. I run UW on both my monk terra and war, averagely you get the same drops as the rest. Doesnt matter who you are, every one down there has to have skill and it can be quite hard, therefore, personnaly any one in the team should take cons, doesnt matter what prof you are running, its all the same, and if you dont want to run with selfish gits who wont buy a conset, get friends for the runs instead, problem solved.

And to be honest, the whole point of a run is to get a shot of a good drop at the end chest, UW runs arnt meant for ecto hoarding, okay yes some arses are out there that use them as a cheap excuse to farm, but once you know who there are /ignore, and if every one in your team does you may just have a chance of getting a decent team together. And if you realise that you do have a farmer in your group, sabotage the run, bye bye his ectos, meh you might just have lost 7k but you have stopped an arse, and the team may compensate you, if you are lucky

Point being, if you are that concerned about the drops you get, go farm, if you are actually wanting to do a run , then live with it, if you want that chance of a rare item, accept that you are going to have to pay expenses out to get the chance, or as stated earlier dont use cons. take a set with yourself or maybe two, and you will find that most pugs will chip in that 1k or 2k for the sets, be prepared to lose your cash, and then get over it.

PS: If you really want that rare drop, just save your cash and buy it

Raku Clayman · Jun 26, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

However, I'm rarely seeing anyone willing to share the cost. I tried to do 3 UW runs a few weeks ago and each time the group insisted that everyone bring cons and we use them one at a time. In this scenario the first person to use is bearing the full cost if the group wipes (and each time it wiped).

With so many teams failing within the first 30 minutes, the first con user is the big loser.

This is why, it should be if you don't pay up front, you don't play. Also, if everyone is made to chip in, they would be less likely to drop out.

Rage quitting under any circumstances should be a bannable offense. It is really, really childish.

TheRaven · Jun 26, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raku Clayman

I defy you to tell me that you can tell who is a good player and who isn't, or, who is going to rage quit or be a jerk, when you are rejecting or accepting people. I have a hard time getting into groups sometimes, when I probably am a better player than 95% of the players in the group and have as many XP as all of them put together. In picking a group, you have no idea how good the players are unless you know them personally.

On the other hand, I hate making groups because of the hassle, so, I can't really complain if I am rejected for whatever reason.

I disagree. A good leader can usually tell who the troublemakers will be with just a little bit of chat while we're still in town. Bad leaders will simply reject based on Norn rank and profession. "OMG You're a lowly Rank 9??? GET LOST YOU NOOB!!!"

If we're discussing skill bars and making general preparation to start and one player is yelling "go!!go!!! I don't have all day!!!!!!! GO!!!!!", guess who I'm gonna kick.

It's not always possible to tell who's going to be the troublemakers, but there are many red flags you can spot before leaving and with a little conversation you can also judge the maturity level of your team. (How likely is your monk's mommy gonna kick him off the computer in a half hour?)

Raku Clayman · Jun 26, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Raven,

It is true that by a little conversation, one can tell if there are jerks in ones group. On rare occasions I've left a group(only before we go in) because all the players were rude or obnoxious.

NoXiFy · Jun 26, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

I would put this in riverside cause its definetly a god topic. Every group that I'm in... I really insist the terras/perma buys them. As of the new 'fastrun' build, I haven't completed UW once! When ursanway was the way, which only took 1hour 30mins, I completed it every time. This new build isn't so fool proof, with 1 healer healing 3 ursan, and 4 terras/permasin... the ursans have trouble in some parts because they only have the 1 healer.

I've heard SOOO many terras/permasin bitch and moan by saying "BULLSHIT, I AINT BUYING CONS! MY JOB IS THE HARDEST IN THE GROUP FFS", the honest truth is... a BOT could do their job, and they could do it better cause they would never messup shadow form/ob flesh. In the main, terras/pemasin should always bring it because everytime we've failed it seems that the terras/perma, whoevers still alive, go SOLOFARM! It's like WTF!. The worst part, is when they dry and scam you. Don't ever fall into the whole "kk, w/e ill buy them everyone pay me 1k each". What happens than... is that there paying NOTHING or makig about a 500g profit as there are many people that sell for 6.5k now. So, in doing this 'fair' split of the money, their paying NOTHING!

Latham · Jun 26, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoXiFy

I've heard SOOO many terras/permasin bitch and moan by saying "BULLSHIT, I AINT BUYING CONS! MY JOB IS THE HARDEST IN THE GROUP FFS", the honest truth is... a BOT could do their job, and they could do it better cause they would never messup shadow form/ob flesh.

Yes, but a bot would be agaisnt the EULA, therefore the job is still hard, and out of the profs (except sin never tried

) there job is not harder, yet it is the most easiest out of all to mess up, therefore give them some credit, i my self have messed up,and you get 'OMFG YOU NOOB TERRA' every one is prone for a mistake, so dont be so harse on them when they fail. But ye i totaly agree, solo farmers in groups should really be reportable

Yet, the job of cons is every ones responsibilty

And as for the 'fool' proof build, who said it was fool proof ??

Unless you know the people then you are gona fail big time, because A your monk cant monk and B the ursans overaggro because they dont know how to hold an aggro, and the terras /sin 'forget' them ever handy scrolls, the build is not fool proof, and if you intend to pug it vent/ts is a must overwise stick with the the full ursanteam, least then you dont fail

Dante the Warlord · Jun 26, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xx Monkin xX

I think i would have to agree that the leader should definetely have a conset handy. I run UW on both my monk terra and war, averagely you get the same drops as the rest. Doesnt matter who you are, every one down there has to have skill and it can be quite hard, therefore, personnaly any one in the team should take cons, doesnt matter what prof you are running, its all the same, and if you dont want to run with selfish gits who wont buy a conset, get friends for the runs instead, problem solved.

And to be honest, the whole point of a run is to get a shot of a good drop at the end chest, UW runs arnt meant for ecto hoarding, okay yes some arses are out there that use them as a cheap excuse to farm, but once you know who there are /ignore, and if every one in your team does you may just have a chance of getting a decent team together. And if you realise that you do have a farmer in your group, sabotage the run, bye bye his ectos, meh you might just have lost 7k but you have stopped an arse, and the team may compensate you, if you are lucky

Point being, if you are that concerned about the drops you get, go farm, if you are actually wanting to do a run , then live with it, if you want that chance of a rare item, accept that you are going to have to pay expenses out to get the chance, or as stated earlier dont use cons. take a set with yourself or maybe two, and you will find that most pugs will chip in that 1k or 2k for the sets, be prepared to lose your cash, and then get over it.

PS: If you really want that rare drop, just save your cash and buy it

... you can't be serious, a terra make the same as an ursan? lol no thats completely false, unless you are a really lucky ursan or unlucky terra. Well as far as im concerned, the run is basically a solo farm + UW chest for the terras. I do it to farm for around 1-2e a half hour to hour honestly not a bad pay considering the nerfs on most other farming. As far as im concerned the people who get screwed over the most are the ursans. first they have to go through the GRUELING task of getting every little bit of points for the title then get a measly drop of money in UW and sometimes FoW. I disagree with you guys a bit with the profitability. True in some cases the chest drops really good things, but many times the group fails and you end up losing your investment and the terras go off and solo WITH YOUR MONEY. So each team member paid 1-2k for them to go off and solo. Now 1-2k isn't a lot these days but think about it in accumulation... 1-2k per group and if you farm 2 times a day 7 days a week that stacks up to 14-28k lost every week just by trying to buy consets... While the terras take minimal risk (on occasion that the reaper dies or the quest is failed) of any kind and even if the entire group fails, still makes a killer profit just by doing one successful clear... i vaguely remember a sin getting 6 ecto drops when the entire team failed on the last quest the 4 horsemen. I spent an hour maybe more on the computer and got nearly nothing, which i lost anyways in the next group because they had no clue what to do. I now have 355g in my inventory from this run , meaning i actually LOST money by doing these runs with few successful clears.

I do appreciate the non flaming and cursing on this topic, i was expecting far more so thank you all for keeping an intelligent debate..

Latham · Jun 27, 2008, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

... you can't be serious, a terra make the same as an ursan? lol no thats completely false, unless you are a really lucky ursan or unlucky terra. Well as far as im concerned, the run is basically a solo farm + UW chest for the terras. I do it to farm for around 1-2e a half hour to hour honestly not a bad pay considering the nerfs on most other farming. As far as im concerned the people who get screwed over the most are the ursans. first they have to go through the GRUELING task of getting every little bit of points for the title then get a measly drop of money in UW and sometimes FoW. I disagree with you guys a bit with the profitability. True in some cases the chest drops really good things, but many times the group fails and you end up losing your investment and the terras go off and solo WITH YOUR MONEY. So each team member paid 1-2k for them to go off and solo. Now 1-2k isn't a lot these days but think about it in accumulation... 1-2k per group and if you farm 2 times a day 7 days a week that stacks up to 14-28k lost every week just by trying to buy consets... While the terras take minimal risk (on occasion that the reaper dies or the quest is failed) of any kind and even if the entire group fails, still makes a killer profit just by doing one successful clear... i vaguely remember a sin getting 6 ecto drops when the entire team failed on the last quest the 4 horsemen. I spent an hour maybe more on the computer and got nearly nothing, which i lost anyways in the next group because they had no clue what to do. I now have 355g in my inventory from this run , meaning i actually LOST money by doing these runs with few successful clears.

Maybe a slight over exaggerated on my ecto averaging, however if the terra's are actually going for speed then they have far less chances of drops, because they shouldnt actually be clearing that much, if they are then they aren't very good terra's. However, if the WHOLE party have chipped in for these cons, aka terra's and all, well to be honest they have every right to farm, you have all put the same towards the cons, therefore just because the ursan team fails, why should they leave when their cons are still ticking away, making an easy farm for themselves

Yes, you lose the profit, but heck unless you had nothing to do with the ursans wipe, then all you can do is blame yourself for being reckless on the aggroes, or blame the monk that was rubbish, and accept that the terra and sins will farm, with the cons THEY have chipped to

Bowstring Badass · Jun 27, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

You make the group, you buy/craft the conset. simple