Curse

MStarfire · Jun 22, 2008, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Abusing broken game mechanics isn't cheating?
Some skills are broken in essence, and cheats are actually implimented in alot of games purposely. In this game, they either didn't test it or they cluelessly added it on.

This game was also all about positioning. The mechanic known as "shadowstepping" was against that concept and the usage of shadowsteps gives you an unfair advantage in positioning.

If it wasn't cheating, it wouldn't be known as abusing, but using instead.

By the way:

There's only one skill in the game that counters an SF spike at it's utmost potential. Yeah, you can split up, but the radius of SF is generally quite wide.

This skill is known as [[xinrae's weapon], which has a recharge of 30 and an energy cost of 25, which is elite and sucks against any other team.

Counters don't stop a build being overpowered, and an SF spike recharges in a measly 2 seconds.

Unless you have actual quotes from developers concerning "what the game was intended to be", as well as documentation that they regret adding any new mechanics since Prophecies, kindly refrain from spewing crap about new mechanics being considered cheating.

You're seriously trying to argue that Shadowstepping is cheating? You're telling me that just because you consider something "untested" or "hastily added" it's cheating? You're talking like a fool. You did not make this game. You did not make a career out of improving and evolving this game. You sound like you're stuck in the pre-Factions days of PvP when you had to make it to the Crystal Desert to do HA. You're no better than an old man who sits on his porch and yells at people for driving cars.

Please, just excuse yourself from this thread because you're not contributing, you're just talking nonsense.

Tyla · Jun 22, 2008, 04:03 AM // 04:03

It's evident that the developers have given up on GW1 anyway, so "the way the game was intended to be" isn't a good point to bring up.

I believe the abuse of mechanics that are broken in themselves is actually cheating. You can easily say cheats don't exist, I mean, alot of games have cheats integrated in those games themselves. Some intended, some accidental, but all in all I believe they were intended.

This game was ment to be a strategic game. Positioning and player skill, be it through skill choice or what you're doing, ment everything. It's gone downhill, but that is for another thread.

If you're abusing something, you're obviously taking it to a higher level to bring your advantage up unfairly. That is what I believe anyway.

Sorry Avarre, but I don't really think of it that way myself. If you're running an overpowered build, and you're playing against someone using a normal build that is balanced in essence, you've got an advantage above them and they have to be alot, and I mean alot better than the team running the overpowered build. In that case it's unfair on the team running the more balanced build so they are required to take the overpowered build.

Quote:

You're seriously trying to argue that Shadowstepping is cheating? You're telling me that just because you consider something "untested" or "hastily added" it's cheating? You're talking like a fool. You did not make this game. You did not make a career out of improving and evolving this game. You sound like you're stuck in the pre-Factions days of PvP when you had to make it to the Crystal Desert to do HA. You're no better than an old man who sits on his porch and yells at people for driving cars.

Shadowstepping kills all requires skill in positioning when said skill is used. That to me is broken and abusable, thus cheating to me. I did not make this game, nor did I bring it up. I didn't even start until between Factions and Nightfall, but I do understand that it's simply stupidity to be able to throw a shadowstepping skill on your bar and defy positioning.

manitoba1073 · Jun 22, 2008, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Shadowstepping kills all requires skill in positioning when said skill is used. That to me is broken and abusable, thus cheating to me. I did not make this game, nor did I bring it up. I didn't even start until between Factions and Nightfall, but I do understand that it's simply stupidity to be able to throw a shadowstepping skill on your bar and defy positioning.

\

You do ofcourse realize that in order to use shadow stepping you have to have an already clear path to get to your enemy. Not like it works if there on a hill with no bridge and you jump up there because it dont work that way. So no it doest quite defy positioning.

Tyla · Jun 22, 2008, 06:17 AM // 06:17

^
That's only if there is absolutely no entry to that area whatsoever.

Line-of-sight doesn't apply to shadowstepping.

Fril Estelin · Jun 22, 2008, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

broken and abusable, thus cheating to me.

You're discussing a situation of "unfairness" that is on the edge of cheating. As hallomik showed in message #42, cheating is:

1. It uses external programs never envisioned.
2. It violates the EULA.
3. It makes fair competition impossible.
4. It directly harms another player's experience.

Broken skills end up in 3 and 4, but it's difficult to argue because a) in PvE the opponent doesn't care (he's AI) so no need to bring fairness into the equation; b) counter-builds can be found in PvP and this is part of the never-ending game of PvP evolution. There's a hidden c) option if you consider the ease with which people play UW and FoW with UB, thus impacting the economy (but it's not rule 4 above as it's indirect). But as someone said already, it's lame but not cheating.

IMHO cheating involves an intention to cheat, and when people use UB or SF-spike, they're not voluntarily trying to "exploit" a game feature. It is a "normal" part of the game, even if broken. You can't blame people for using UB, you can blame them for only using UB and making GW a 1-2-3-4-5 button mashing game.

Edit: it's the same with shadowstepping. It clearly was from day one intended to bring something new into the game. No unfairness here, no possible intention to abuse the game and "harm" other players (in any other way than kill them, I've experienced that myself countless times as an ele

).

Tyla · Jun 22, 2008, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Well that's the thing Fril, it's human nature to take what's most powerful in the first place.

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2008, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

\

You do ofcourse realize that in order to use shadow stepping you have to have an already clear path to get to your enemy. Not like it works if there on a hill with no bridge and you jump up there because it dont work that way. So no it doest quite defy positioning.

If you can walk to your target, you can shadowstep to your target, regardless of what's in the way. So yes, it does indeed defy positioning.

Fril Estelin · Jun 22, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Well that's the thing Fril, it's human nature to take what's most powerful in the first place.

You have to make a clear distinction between cheating and the rest. If people clear UW and FoW without UB but do it nevertheless for efficiency reasons, you can't call the simple fact of using UB cheating. If people kill you by shadow-stepping, they're catching you in a way that is perfectly normal with regards to what the devs expected. Overpower is part of any game (I remember how WoW arena players were astonished when someone performed a spike!) and even, as you suggest, a temptation of human nature. Cheating is not.

You may want to discuss how unbalanced or broken all this is, but don't blame it on other players. Cheating comes from players, not devs.

sixacsix · Jun 22, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Ok I Read Over All Of These Posts And All I Can Say Is I Feel Dumber Because Of Reading It Lmfao Guys You Miss The Point Of This Whole Thing Go To Anets Help Site And Read What It Says About Cheating "it Does Not Exist" Lmfao And As For You Not Considering Anything Not Pvp Related Cheating Your Dead Wrong Lol If We Can Gen 1000 Ecto In 10 Mins Omg Its Only High End Goods Try Not You Ever Seen Gold Sites >>>>> Need I Say More Further More Ask Why After Ecto Went Down In Price Maybe Cause The Economy Was Polluted With No Way To Track It Down... Guys There Is Bugs Much Worse Then Duping That Can End A Game Very Fast Remember That A Game Is Only That Because People Play It And Most Of Gw Is Pve. Pve= Money Thats The Point To Get That High End Gear As U Put It Cheating Is Much More Then Up,down,triangle,l1,r1 Pablo Posted That As Proof Of Cheats Not For Discussion Over The Veracity Or "what Makes A Cheat" Take Sh*t As It Is And Stop Over Thinking Things. O Ya I Felt Left Out On The Pics So This Is From Me

sixacsix · Jun 22, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Pic = Kunavang In Hoh If U Dident Know

Tyla · Jun 22, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Yeah, what's with all of the capitalisation?

around · Jun 22, 2008, 03:28 PM // 15:28

IT HAPPENS IF YOU TRY TO TYPE EVERY WORD LIKE THIS and don't apply normal capitalisation rules.

Really, though, cheating is defined as breaking the rules of the game. Using shadowsteps and broken mechanics isn't cheating. However, it is an example of bad game design.

manitoba1073 · Jun 22, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

If you can walk to your target, you can shadowstep to your target, regardless of what's in the way. So yes, it does indeed defy positioning.

No it doesn't Yes I wrote that, A little reading goes a long way. That still doesnt defy positioning.

Tyla · Jun 22, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

No it doesn't Yes I wrote that, A little reading goes a long way. That still doesnt defy positioning.

Manitoba, why don't you just try it yourself instead of judging that you're correct on this through words only when this has been proven already?

Find an observe game, or try it out for yourself. On an obs game you're bound to find someone telespiking. Stop being dumb and use your brain. Your position is only determined by the enemy once you use a shadowstep and you defy speedboost and positioning and jump right towards them. How can anyone make it any more clear?

N1ghtstalker · Jun 22, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

cheating is actually getting stuff that you didn't earn
a perfect example is the GTA series where you can just press a code to get a weaponpack
so if you hack GW and do it to get money you're cheating

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2008, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

No it doesn't Yes I wrote that, A little reading goes a long way. That still doesnt defy positioning.

I guess you'd need to have a little bit of knowledge in PvP to understand how it does. But whatever, if you don't think it does, that's fine. Your opinion only changes the fact in your mind.

joshuarodger · Jun 22, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixacsix

Ok I Read Over All Of These Posts And All I Can Say Is I Feel Dumber Because Of Reading It Lmfao Guys You Miss The Point Of This Whole Thing Go To Anets Help Site And Read What It Says About Cheating "it Does Not Exist" Lmfao And As For You Not Considering Anything Not Pvp Related Cheating Your Dead Wrong Lol If We Can Gen 1000 Ecto In 10 Mins Omg Its Only High End Goods Try Not You Ever Seen Gold Sites >>>>> Need I Say More Further More Ask Why After Ecto Went Down In Price Maybe Cause The Economy Was Polluted With No Way To Track It Down... Guys There Is Bugs Much Worse Then Duping That Can End A Game Very Fast Remember That A Game Is Only That Because People Play It And Most Of Gw Is Pve. Pve= Money Thats The Point To Get That High End Gear As U Put It Cheating Is Much More Then Up,down,triangle,l1,r1 Pablo Posted That As Proof Of Cheats Not For Discussion Over The Veracity Or "what Makes A Cheat" Take Sh*t As It Is And Stop Over Thinking Things. O Ya I Felt Left Out On The Pics So This Is From Me

why on earth would you capitalize every word and not use any punctuation. this is completely unreadable.

shadowstepping definitely can't be called cheating just because it's a designed game mechanic that everyone knows about and is able to use. it is definitely abusable though. being able to just jump to an enemy's back line and back out again defies all defensive strategy and positioning (yes manitoba, positioning). it keeps people from being punished for overextending and actually rewards them for it. i don't think it should have ever been allowed into the game. just my 2 cents.

manitoba1073 · Jun 22, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I guess you'd need to have a little bit of knowledge in PvP to understand how it does. But whatever, if you don't think it does, that's fine. Your opinion only changes the fact in your mind.

LOL I suggest you learn more about skills before commenting on them. As I said its not defying positioning. If there is no clear path (ie a way you could walk to your target) Then it wont magically put you next to ur target.

Like You said if you had a little bit of knowledge about the skills you'd understand how it works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Manitoba, why don't you just try it yourself instead of judging that you're correct on this through words only when this has been proven already?

Find an observe game, or try it out for yourself. On an obs game you're bound to find someone telespiking. Stop being dumb and use your brain. Your position is only determined by the enemy once you use a shadowstep and you defy speedboost and positioning and jump right towards them. How can anyone make it any more clear?

See the above picture. And take your own advice.

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

LOL I suggest you learn more about skills before commenting on them. As I said its not defying positioning. If there is no clear path (ie a way you could walk to your target) Then it wont magically put you next to ur target.

Funny, because last time I checked, I said as long as you can walk to your target, you can shadowstep to them.

I like how you're implying that I don't know how shadowstepping works, yet we've both said the same thing about how it works.

[DE] · Jun 22, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Lay off Manitoba Arky, sometimes comprehending simple sentences can be very difficult.