Curse

ihavealife · Jun 25, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

READ THIS ALL PLEASE

I'm talking about skill in real life rather than the definition of skill in Guild Wars. Like there's skill to sports, drawing, writing, and to games that you actually do the fighting in rather than telling a character how to fight.

My terminology in this post:

GWSkill = The skills you have on the little bar at the bottom of the screen.
RLSkill = "like there's skill to sport, drawing, writing..."

Some people on Guild Wars started taking about there being no RLSkill in the playing of guild wars, and I don't know why they're playing if that's the case. I started to think, there must be some RLSkill to Guild Wars because some bits of it are easy and some are hard, even with great GWSkills and builds. Also if there was no RLSkill then everyone would have completed the whole of Guild Wars in months or less of hardcore playing.

The only skill to Guild Wars I can think of is:
Timing: Like interrupt GWSkills, miss the oppurtunity and you have to wait for recharge by which time you're screwed.
Moving: While farming, your builds aren't suited to every foe in the area, so it's important you avoid them.

I'm sure there's more than that, so what can I say to disprove them?
Oh and also my brother says Guild Wars is rubbish because there's no RLSkill to it, so what you say will come in pretty handy.

BTW, just to remind you, I believe there is RLSkill to Guild Wars, so don't start being horrible to me, because I'm asking about that, not denying it.

Thanks in advance

Etta · Jun 25, 2008, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Um...I don't really get this. Are you talking about skill like hands-eyes coordination?

Buzzer · Jun 25, 2008, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihavealife

I'm sure there's more than that, so what can I say to disprove them?

"Play PvP" .

notskorn · Jun 25, 2008, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Theres no skill in PVE, theres some skill in PVP

-Loki- · Jun 25, 2008, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihavealife

My terminology in this post:

GWSkill = The skills you have on the little bar at the bottom of the screen.
RLSkill = "like there's skill to sport, drawing, writing..."

This is where most people fail when discussing player skill in GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihavealife

The only skill to Guild Wars I can think of is:
Timing: Like interrupt GWSkills, miss the oppurtunity and you have to wait for recharge by which time you're screwed.
Moving: While farming, your builds aren't suited to every foe in the area, so it's important you avoid them.

If that's all you think about Timing and Movement, then you're a pretty bad player.

wu is me · Jun 25, 2008, 09:09 AM // 09:09

theres A LOOOOT of team work. I think thats a very important IRL skill

PlasticBlue · Jun 25, 2008, 09:14 AM // 09:14

You are forgetting tactics, knowing your bar, knowing what the other player is going to do, knowing your way around, knowing your shortcuts, lightning reflexes for monks and mesmers (for mesmer this also means knowing in what order the other player is using his skills), knowing how to spike, when to spike, knowing how to counter certain builds, being able to make a build that bloody well works, being able to lead (party as well as guild/alliance)

I could just go on and on.

There is even skill in pve: knowing how certain npc's move and how they react, being able to work with those h&h, farming builds, as mentioned, knowing what to sell/buy and at what price, etc etc etc.

There is more then enough skill in GW, difference is between people that use it, and people who don't.

Avarre · Jun 25, 2008, 09:14 AM // 09:14

The main things are character control, battle awareness, and tactics. These can be broken down into a lot of smaller areas.

Character control:
Kiting, skill usage, proper targeting and timing (what to aim at and when, monitoring enemy skill recharge, etc), reaction time, e-management.

Battle Awareness:
Threat recognition (related to targeting), positioning, timing (for pushes, base res, etc), reading your opponent (skill prediction).

Tactics:
Ways to deal with opponent builds, map understanding, split/collapse plans, etc. You can have a lot of theory here but execution takes practice.

Then there are things like team synergy and such - you can have very skilled players without it and they won't do as well. I'm obviously missing a lot of stuff on this, it's just general things.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 25, 2008, 09:17 AM // 09:17

There's more to it then just movement and timing. Think about it in a wider view. You need to be aware of what everyone else (teammates and opponents) are doing, how to react, etc.

In PvE, skill hasn't mattered since ursan, although some players don't use it for whatever reason.

PlasticBlue · Jun 25, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

I think that is why some people don't like ursan... no skill needed...

makosi · Jun 25, 2008, 09:25 AM // 09:25

I wouldn't consider interruption a GW skill. Predicting others' actions could be considered skillful (see quarter-knocking) but watching the skill warm-up and pressing a button is not much different to Whack-A-Mole which I played when I was 7.

upier · Jun 25, 2008, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Based on his definition:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihavealife

....
The only skill to Guild Wars I can think of is:
Timing: Like interrupt GWSkills, miss the oppurtunity and you have to wait
...

this makes you:

Quote:

Originally Posted by notskorn

Theres no skill in PVE, theres some skill in PVP

wrong.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

I wouldn't consider interruption a GW skill. Predicting others' actions could be considered skillful (see quarter-knocking) but watching the skill warm-up and pressing a button is not much different to Whack-A-Mole which I played when I was 7.

It's about reflexes.
One is able to respond faster then someone else.
I'd consider that a skill.
(We're just to narrow minded to get past the fact that different people are good at different things. And some of those things don't even need to be useful.)

anonymous · Jun 25, 2008, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

wrong.

Explain. I don't see how using ursan takes skill. And if you are using anything besides ursan that isn't as good as or better (good and better as in faster at doing something) then that doesn't count, you are choosing to limit yourself and making a challenge where there isn't one. Sure you could say typing takes no skill, but I tie my hands behind my back and type with my feet, thats where the real skill is!

Avarre · Jun 25, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

I wouldn't consider interruption a GW skill. Predicting others' actions could be considered skillful (see quarter-knocking) but watching the skill warm-up and pressing a button is not much different to Whack-A-Mole which I played when I was 7.

Anyone can interrupt. A good interrupter isn't someone who hits things, in the same way a good interrupt skill has a secondary effect. You need to be able to use your interrupts to disable as much of the enemy offense/defense as possible, by co-ordinating and interrupting key skills, by pleaking a target repeatedly and watching for them to switch into highset so you can knock them out entirely, by dshotting skills the enemy relies on, etc. You have to be able to clearly identify the build and tactics used by the opponent to get the greatest effect.

This also means you need to time in your head the recharges of your enemy's skills so that you can catch them on recharge repeatedly (things like DA, Aegis, Wards, etc). Sometimes this involves watching for cast animations so you can keep an eye on multiple targets at once. Then on top of all that, reaction time comes into play, and you have to be using the other skills on your bar as well.

upier · Jun 25, 2008, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymous

Explain. I don't see how using ursan takes skill. And if you are using anything besides ursan that isn't as good as or better (good and better as in faster at doing something) then that doesn't count, you are choosing to limit yourself and making a challenge where there isn't one. Sure you could say typing takes no skill, but I tie my hands behind my back and type with my feet, thats where the real skill is!

You beat PvE. You have shown skill.
The simple fact that there are better players out there doesn't matter.
PvE isn't competitive.

Gift3d · Jun 25, 2008, 10:35 AM // 10:35

First familiarize yourself with the definition of skill.

PvE takes skill.
PvP takes skill.

The only difference is, the only skill PvE takes is basic motor skills and maybe a little bit of common sense, while PvP, being competitive and your opponents unpredictable and theoretically of an equal mindset and capable of being of the same skill level or better as you and your allies, goes to prove more about your intuitive skills while actually playing GW.

I don't even know if that made sense and i'm not going back to check. It made sense in my mind...

Gun Pierson · Jun 25, 2008, 10:47 AM // 10:47

PvP involves skill, but it's not because you play pvp that you got great skill, just to make that clear. You can play soccer at the local team or play in the premier league to explain this with a real life example.

It's the same for PvE but with different mechanics, microing heroes and their bars requires skill for example. You can play golf on a modest level or you can play versus Tiger Woods sorta speak. In GW pve however we don't have a sheet that shows in how less time or how many steps it took to complete the game.

pumpkin pie · Jun 25, 2008, 12:07 PM // 12:07

The real life skill you need to play guild wars is People Skills, in my humble opinion, which i desperately lack :P~ lol that is why I hate pug! pug = people skill = talk , yuck!

That is also why, there are a lot of thread started just because player F thinks player P is a noob or players C thinks player R is a complete idiot for not knowing skill B or etc.... all without people skills! and lack of understanding lololol

i r going for some food ... hands and legs getting numb!

Sjeng · Jun 25, 2008, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by notskorn

Theres no skill in PVE, theres some skill in PVP

here we go... *sigh* another PvP>PvE thread.
FYI: not everyone likes PvP. Some like PvE. Actually most GW players like PvE. And there is skill involved. Sure, it might be easier than PvP, but there is still RLskill required. My gf can't even walk straight in GW, she keeps bumping into things (but she never plays games, so that's not so strange). And the timing and movement examples from the OP is also skill. Ever tried running droknar before the SF perma build when there was only Prophecies? That took skill.

Yes, there is lots of RL skill for PvE, if you choose to play it to the fullest. Even perma SF UW farming takes skill. Timing is a big issue there. See Avarres first post here. Says it all.

Avarre · Jun 25, 2008, 12:30 PM // 12:30

I don't think you can really argue that PvP takes far more skill to be successful in compared to PvE.

The major difference is that PvE is a static environment. You can empirically memorize every spawn point and mechanically replay it - one reasons why bots can perform in PvE. PvP requires the player to continually adapt during a match itself in order to remain effective. For that reason, the skill cap in PvE is a lot lower - once you're got general positioning and character control down, you're pretty much set, because the only major tactic is go from A to B and kill everything on the way.

While discussing the differences between skill importance in PvE and PvP is fine, if this becomes the usual playerbase witch hunt it will be locked.