Curse

Lonesamurai · Sep 13, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marth Reynolds

Depends on secret world and AION and wether they'll cost money to play.

but when secret world comes out i will be playing it ^^

Secret World?

whats that?

Lauryn · Sep 13, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Hmm.... £90 for 2,500 hours of Gameplay...

Somehow I think I'll pick up the sequel - its far to early to judge this game as we know no solid facts about it, everything we think we know is most likely subject to change.

This time next year of course...

Gigashadow · Sep 13, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

I loved GW1, it was innovative in so many ways. Of course I will buy GW2. Even if it ends up sucking, it's not like it's a lot of money.

glountz · Sep 13, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

And this post alone completely flies in the face of every reason ANet gave us for ditching GW1 and starting GW2 in the first place...
As they said, they can't do what they or the players wanted (Auction house, etc), so they are going back to the start and making GW2...
Ok, they also said it won't have everything, but from the vision they portrayed it will have the PvP that the PvP'ers wanted and very likely UAS from the sounds of it and the persistant world, grindable PvE that the PvE'ers want and yes, the majority want grind of some form or another...
Thats been stated many times that that can't feasibly happen, not without having two separate games...

Listen, little fanboi.
* I'm saying that they will please Grinders, and I'm not one of them.
* I'm saying that they won't implement top wanted things like Auction house, which would seriously ameliorate the economy, and I would prefer a game with it.
* You're saying that they will put UAX for PvP, and that's not even remotevely resembling a far far rumor, as they didn't release it for GW, or at incredible prices.
* I'm saying that I want a casual-friendly game, with skill which matters more than time played, as I have few free time for this, but learning fast and easily, and GW2 won't be this game.

So, in short, I'm no more their kind of customer. They changed themselves their initial premise. They want to attract now no-life WoW-like PVE carebears. I'm not a no-life PVE carebear. What attracted myself to GW was actually not the no-monthly fee, but the skill>time credo. I have a job and money. Paying monthly fees is not an issue.
What we are sure is that GWE:N was the bridge between GW1 and GW2. I don't like this bridge. I won't cross it.

However I will buy GW2 if they follow this:
- Auction house
- PvP UAX. Only fancy weapons are unlockable.
- Ultra balanced PvP. Few select skills, rest are PVE only, races are only aesthetics.
- No-grind PvE. Every max armor/weapon can be obtained easily. Titles have no effects on skills. Titles have now effect on drops/money/whatever thing that have a statistical impact on the game (like treasure chests). Skills are linked to attributes and are not a gold sink.
- No PvP titles inducing farming behavior.
- PVE competitive missions. Strong AI.

As you see, that's not a definitive "no". That's just GW2 is not as appealing as GW1, that's all.

A11Eur0 · Sep 13, 2007, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Someone mentioned a comparison of GW to M:TG in another thread. This discussion is the same as when I stopped playing M:TG. Too much interference by the creators trying to "balance" the game and make it more fun for the entry level players, but it shunned all of the original players away who actually had fun with the imbalance, trying to figure out ways to balance it on their own.

Noone really likes having their hands held. If there's an imbalance, the players will work it out by formulating new strategies to counter any overpowered team/player. I witnessed some rather interesting and amazing constructs of deck builds in M:TG to counter the more common "elite" builds, and they were rather successful and one didn't need to buy $3k worth of ultra rare discontinued cards to do it.

All games are abandoned by the original players when there's too much intervention by the company that runs them. Starcraft has survived for so long because there were no serious changes to gameplay...builds and team strategies weren't nerfed...maps weren't altered to stifle the strong strategies and rushes...people adapted and countered them on their own.

Roo Ella · Sep 13, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

I'll be buying it for the simple reason I love guild wars and it's environment
factions meh not so much lol
and if GW2 is similar in environment and areas I'm getting it.
Sure it's got bugs and stuff and is always getting nerfed in some way or another
but I doubt there is any game out there thats Perfect for everyone and everyones playing style from day one.

Spell chucker failed go to the back of the class.................

Cebe · Sep 13, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorgy

GW is my FIRST online game (I played Freelancer online but dont consider it as a mmo) and strangely I have confidence in the devs since 2005 & GW release. I will buy GW² + GW3 + GW4 + GW The Last.
I dont buy other PC game since I play GW, funny Anet makes me save my money

congrats.....

This is exactly my stance. While I play Guild Wars, there is no need for me to spend money on other games.

What I would like to know is, I've been looking into my Crystal Ball and not seen anything that would lead me to believe GW:2 will be a "bad game"...now, I've never really trusted these new fangled balls, much preferred the older model but mine broke, so I was wondering how people seem so certain that GW:2 will not be the "game for them"? I mean, ANet change their mind about things ALL the time...Anything could happen in the next 1-2 years.

Surena · Sep 13, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Glountz:

Showing off and acting is a common human trait and the internet is the best place for it.

Do you really think people would play for a long time without rank or titles, without being able to prove how leet or better they are?

I also hate grind, even though I grinded the market for years but there has to be something for people to strive for. That's how MMOs survive. Content and addiction. GW:EN's grind didn't appeal to me so I just went back to low-end PvP.

Pwny Ride · Sep 13, 2007, 09:16 AM // 09:16

No, of course i'm not buying Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars is just a spare time filler between real life issues like school, candy and friends.

Besides, I'll have Super Smash Brawl for the Wii in December. With online compatability, who needs MMO's? That will be me set for at least four years.
(Ive been playing Melee since gamcube's release, and it's still my favourite game to date.)

Lonesamurai · Sep 13, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Listen, little fanboi.
* I'm saying that they will please Grinders, and I'm not one of them.
* I'm saying that they won't implement top wanted things like Auction house, which would seriously ameliorate the economy, and I would prefer a game with it.
* You're saying that they will put UAX for PvP, and that's not even remotevely resembling a far far rumor, as they didn't release it for GW, or at incredible prices.
* I'm saying that I want a casual-friendly game, with skill which matters more than time played, as I have few free time for this, but learning fast and easily, and GW2 won't be this game.

So, in short, I'm no more their kind of customer. They changed themselves their initial premise. They want to attract now no-life WoW-like PVE carebears. I'm not a no-life PVE carebear. What attracted myself to GW was actually not the no-monthly fee, but the skill>time credo. I have a job and money. Paying monthly fees is not an issue.
What we are sure is that GWE:N was the bridge between GW1 and GW2. I don't like this bridge. I won't cross it.

However I will buy GW2 if they follow this:
- Auction house
- PvP UAX. Only fancy weapons are unlockable.
- Ultra balanced PvP. Few select skills, rest are PVE only, races are only aesthetics.
- No-grind PvE. Every max armor/weapon can be obtained easily. Titles have no effects on skills. Titles have now effect on drops/money/whatever thing that have a statistical impact on the game (like treasure chests). Skills are linked to attributes and are not a gold sink.
- No PvP titles inducing farming behavior.
- PVE competitive missions. Strong AI.

As you see, that's not a definitive "no". That's just GW2 is not as appealing as GW1, that's all.

Ok, you don't like it, but from what they've said so far, some of the things you said you want there are the reason they are doing GW2 and finishing up GW1, mainly because the game engine as it is can't handle the kind of changes they want to make to it...

One of the major problems they have is the fact that grinders play the game and they have to support the market that buys the game they create... besides, RolePlay in and of itself is a grind... hell, real life is... and theres no satisfaction in just being given everything

Ok, this could all change and you could be right, but as of now, we don't know much, but what we do know looks very good and very similar to what you want?

However I will buy GW2 if they follow this:
- Auction house Not confirmed, but very likely

- PvP UAX. Only fancy weapons are unlockable. Already confirmed that the Pvp in GW2 would be maxed and a PvE character could be taken in and would be set up from the start... ok, thats not a confirmation of UAX, but again, we'll see

- Ultra balanced PvP. Few select skills, rest are PVE only, races are only aesthetics.
Again, we'll have to wait and see, we don't even know if we're going to have the classes we have at the moment

- No-grind PvE. Every max armor/weapon can be obtained easily. Titles have no effects on skills. Titles have now effect on drops/money/whatever thing that have a statistical impact on the game (like treasure chests). Skills are linked to attributes and are not a gold sink.
Sorry, thats not gonna happen, there will be grind, there has to be, people want a sense of fulfillment, thats what they get when they get the armour/weapon/whatever and thats why games like WoW, lineage, etc work... hell, its been the case since D&D and other pen and paper RPG's were born, the one thing we can hope for is that the grind doesn't affect PvP in any way at all

- No PvP titles inducing farming behavior.
Agreed and i doubt it will, but fnuh, even champ point is a grind and the guys at the top would probably disagree with you... hell, i want a return of the World Championships!

- PVE competitive missions. Strong AI.
And how, prey tell could they do this? Do you know how hard AI is to code? nah, i want a small-ish, well coded game thanks... Ok, mob patrols are annoying, but they could be spiced up by changing them round from time to time... Oh and its already been stated that the storyline will be instanced mission based, just like in GW1

jrk247 · Sep 13, 2007, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

...so I was wondering how people seem so certain that GW:2 will not be the "game for them"? I mean, ANet change their mind about things ALL the time...Anything could happen in the next 1-2 years.

Yeah that's the thing a lot of people liked GW how it was when they bought it where it didn't matter how much time you devoted to it, where Skill > Time. Now GW has slowly been formed into another mediocre MMO. Sure there are some people that'll buy it and say it's way better than GW but there are those people that actually played GW because of it's style. GW2 (from what I've heard) is just going to be the most recent GW game with more options like other MMO's out there. It's still probably going to have the mass err7's and lag after the first year. So I'm basing my opinion off of Anets history and what they've leaked to us so far. So what I know so far GW2 isn't all that great it's just starting over again having to get your chars up to par again so you can play and if there's no level cap it's just going to be less like GW and the whole idea of Skill > Time is down the drain.

Ado · Sep 13, 2007, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Without wanting to flame anyone, here's the problem regarding GW and the upcoming GW2.

Current GW can basicly be divided into 2 groups:
-oldskoolplayers: those who bought the game in the first 3 to 6 months after its release
-newcomers: players who got into GW after the release of Factions.

Oldskoolers (like myself) grew up with this game being used to playing with a fullhuman-team, item and goldfarmers, more or less balanced PvP and a community where it was relativly easy to get to know other players.
Regarding HA (Tombs at that time), yes, there was a degree of famefarming, but the amount of different builds being played in the first 6 to 9 months were roughly equally divided. Many testbuilds around and most players had an open mind towards new builds. The way how I experienced PvP in those days, was that for most players it was more important how you won the game, than getting vast amounts of fame. Oldskoolers want the game to be as difficult and challanging as possible. With all due respect, most newcomers are looking for an easy way to play both PvE and PvP. In fact, a huge majority nowadays want to play "the easy way". Have a look in HA and you know what I mean. Take a look in PvE where nearly everyone is "exploiting" the game with the same hero/hench-setup and you know again what I mean.

The release of Factions (and NF) attracted a whole bunch of new players, which of course was Anet's intention. The first major change was the fact that there were no more skillrelated quests, changing PvE and also changing the way how ppl learned how to play the game.
The second change were the battle-isles (for those who don't know, prior to factions you had to play all the way up to certain point in PvE in order to play HA (Tombs)).
Third were the titles, leading to a more grinding way of playstyle.
Fourth, the introduction of hero's resulting into the downfall of "we are one big community". Factions already had the same problem since the whole game appart from 1 or 2 missions was easily henchable.
Lastly, the mentality of the community changed. If we take PvP f.e., it is now focussed around builds (hence some players call this game Build Wars now) which will guaranty winning. The need amongst players to be creative slowly diminished. Winning became more important than "how" you had won the match, which is of course also a way of grinding.

A rough estimation is that those who bought GW in the first 3 months make up about 10/15% of the community now. The vast majority of players never experienced how GW used to be, and as far as I know, most of them enjoy the game to the full having little complaints about it.

Most complaints (including on this site) come from oldskoolers, which is of course logical. We've seen how the game changed into what it is today. We miss they way how GW used to be in the first 9 months or so.

But we oldskoolers have to face one fact. If we like it or not, the way how GW is now is being liked by the current majority of the community. So of course Anet will serve them the most. Our experiences and they way we used to play the game are.....well, nostalgic memories.

I'm not condemning or judging the "new" players. People play the game how they enjoy it the most. I know that grinding is something many players enjoy. The fact that I don't like grinding doesn't give me the right to tell someone not to grind. From Anet's point of view, they develop the game (and GW2) in a way which will attract the most people. Our oldskool way of playing is simply not the way of how most people want to play the game nowadays.

Needless to say, I'm a traditional GW-player and I didn't like all those changes at all. For me, how the metagame evolved is a sign of how GW2 will turn out to be. For me that's a sole reason not to buy it. Call me oldfashioned but that's just the way I am.

Cebe · Sep 13, 2007, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrk247

So what I know so far GW2 isn't all that great it's just starting over again having to get your chars up to par again so you can play and if there's no level cap it's just going to be less like GW and the whole idea of Skill > Time is down the drain.

One part I miss is starting the game from scratch. From my experiences from playing GW this time round, assuming I buy GW:2 when it is released I'll be making the most of being a complete newbie, since you can only start the game from scratch, as a complete newbie, once. Every other profession after that gets quicker and quicker to complete the game with.

I'm happy enough to wait and see how it pans out before stating I refuse to buy it. For once in my life, I'm optimistic

quickmonty · Sep 13, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Been playing GW for over two years. I would LIKE to buy GW2, but it's too early to decide. I'll wait until closer to release and see what it is about. I'd really like to get involved with the beta testing to get a real feel for it. Meanwhile I'll keep playing GW, in spite of the things that I don't like about it.

Lianna · Sep 13, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

I'm not getting it and tbh I don't think I'll ever buy another Anet product again after this GW fiasco.

It may start good (like prophecies back in the day) but Anet will quickly nerf, chop and change the game until it becomes grind, unfun and generally crap.

/ex gw player

Theus · Sep 13, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Listen, little fanboi.
* I'm saying that they will please Grinders, and I'm not one of them.
* I'm saying that they won't implement top wanted things like Auction house, which would seriously ameliorate the economy, and I would prefer a game with it.
* You're saying that they will put UAX for PvP, and that's not even remotevely resembling a far far rumor, as they didn't release it for GW, or at incredible prices.
* I'm saying that I want a casual-friendly game, with skill which matters more than time played, as I have few free time for this, but learning fast and easily, and GW2 won't be this game.

So, in short, I'm no more their kind of customer. They changed themselves their initial premise. They want to attract now no-life WoW-like PVE carebears. I'm not a no-life PVE carebear. What attracted myself to GW was actually not the no-monthly fee, but the skill>time credo. I have a job and money. Paying monthly fees is not an issue.
What we are sure is that GWE:N was the bridge between GW1 and GW2. I don't like this bridge. I won't cross it.

However I will buy GW2 if they follow this:
- Auction house
- PvP UAX. Only fancy weapons are unlockable.
- Ultra balanced PvP. Few select skills, rest are PVE only, races are only aesthetics.
- No-grind PvE. Every max armor/weapon can be obtained easily. Titles have no effects on skills. Titles have now effect on drops/money/whatever thing that have a statistical impact on the game (like treasure chests). Skills are linked to attributes and are not a gold sink.
- No PvP titles inducing farming behavior.
- PVE competitive missions. Strong AI.

As you see, that's not a definitive "no". That's just GW2 is not as appealing as GW1, that's all.

Exactly.If GuildWars 2 lack's any of these features,I certainly won't be purchasing it.

Especially after the terrible taste left in my mouth after purchasing GW:EN.

Longasc · Sep 13, 2007, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

So, in short, I'm no more their kind of customer. They changed themselves their initial premise. They want to attract now no-life WoW-like PVE carebears. I'm not a no-life PVE carebear. What attracted myself to GW was actually not the no-monthly fee, but the skill>time credo. I have a job and money. Paying monthly fees is not an issue.
(...)
What we are sure is that GWE:N was the bridge between GW1 and GW2. I don't like this bridge. I won't cross it.
(...)
As you see, that's not a definitive "no". That's just GW2 is not as appealing as GW1, that's all.

Summed up very well. I was playing GW because it did not overly reward playing all day and night and not punish you for taking a break.

Now with the no longer so "optional" grind they introduced, the focus on titles, to "give people something to do" they really anger me. TBH, if they follow this formula they need to admit that they simply lack the content and polish of World of Warcraft. On the other hand they wanted to do "something different, their own thing" if you listened to Jeff Strain's speech on the GC.

GW:EN raised high hopes and let me down, thanks god for them they do not have that many competitors at the moment. But I doubt the stakes are lower in 2008, there are Warhammer, Hellgate London, Conan and other MMOs that might be successful.

Still: GW2 is still something I will definitely try out. We know GW1 and can compare their vision with the reality, so let us wait and see if GW2 is worth it.

They have to be really good, then people might stay longer than a month. I also dare to say, many GW veterans will not stay as long as they did in GW1 despite the game taking an unwanted direction. You cannot show people over and over great appetizers and then deliver something like GW:EN or change too much of the original gamedesign, people hopefully remember such things.

But well, they seem to be after the casual gamer, which usually does not remember such things.

P.S.: Don't be so harsh to LoneSamurai, he is not really a fanboi, just a bit too optimistic IMO.

Vanquisher · Sep 13, 2007, 12:50 PM // 12:50

To be fair to those doubting - they promised a lot of things prior, and during the days when GW was at the height of its popularity. The problem was these things took a long time to implement, weren't implemented correctly, or weren't followed through on to the extent they could have been.

But it's a gradual learning process. Too bad GW isn't the game many hoped it could, and it looked like it would be.

Tijger · Sep 13, 2007, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Summed up very well. I was playing GW because it did not overly reward playing all day and night and not punish you for taking a break.

Still doesnt.

Quote:

Now with the no longer so "optional" grind they introduced, the focus on titles, to "give people something to do" they really anger me. TBH, if they follow this formula they need to admit that they simply lack the content and polish of World of Warcraft. On the other hand they wanted to do "something different, their own thing" if you listened to Jeff Strain's speech on the GC.

Still no need to grind.

Quote:

GW:EN raised high hopes and let me down, thanks god for them they do not have that many competitors at the moment. But I doubt the stakes are lower in 2008, there are Warhammer, Hellgate London, Conan and other MMOs that might be successful.

You mean you expected something you didnt get based on your own unrealistic expectations.
As for the other games, dude, the MMO market is growing by 25% a year, there's room for all of those games but I'll bet you that 3 out of 4 of those games will suck more then GW.

Quote:

Still: GW2 is still something I will definitely try out. We know GW1 and can compare their vision with the reality, so let us wait and see if GW2 is worth it.

They have to be really good, then people might stay longer than a month.

As long as its bought thats fine with everyone, I'd say.

Quote:

I also dare to say, many GW veterans will not stay as long as they did in GW1 despite the game taking an unwanted direction. You cannot show people over and over great appetizers and then deliver something like GW:EN or change too much of the original gamedesign, people hopefully remember such things.

What was so great about GW 2 years ago then thats gone now? If you beat Prophecies you could do...what exactly? There was no SF, no Titan Quests, you could start over, PvP or farm, that was it. But hey, that was so much better, right?

Quote:

But well, they seem to be after the casual gamer, which usually does not remember such things.

We might get rid of self-declared 'hardcore' players in GW2? WOOOHOOO!

thezed · Sep 13, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Personally, I have enjoyed all 4 of the GW installments. Barring any change in my real life I will definatly be buying Guild Wars 2. With the quality of product and enjoyment I have recieved so far, Anet has earned at least that much of my business. How long I play and if I puchase further products wil entirely depend on the quality of GW2 as I see it.

I have played a lot of other MMOs, both free ones and free trials/betas of PtP ones. I don't mind some "grind" and I have no problem with an "imbalanced" game (although I dont play much PvP). My problem with most MMOs falls into 3 things.

1. Story - In most MMO's the story line can be summed up as one of 2 things: "You are a member of faction X. You are at war with faction Y. Ready? Fight!" or "Welcome young adventurer to this amazing world. Explore." While GW had this to some degere, the main focus was a "Heroic Epic", like Diablo or God of War. You are a hero fighting to overcome amazing odds and save the day. That kind of thing holds my intrest more.

2. Complicated - In several MMOs ive played, including WoW, the system of attributes, proffesions, skills, classes, ect... is too complex. Im not looking to develop an on-line life (Second Life) I just want to play a game. Keep it simple.

3. Cost - Yes, I am a working adult and have plenty of money to spend on a subscription, but why?? I have yet to find a PtP MMO that I can justifiably throw down 50 bucks to buy the game, only to have to put down another 15 a month just for the right to play it. Maybe someday that game will come...but not yet.

If GW2 can avoid these 3 things, I will likely be a long term player. Otherwise the box will just gather dust and Anet will need to work all over again to win me over.

I also want to add about grind. SOME grind I dont have a problem with. GW level is not a problem for me. Try playing a MMO like 9Dragons though. The grind is killer when you only get 1 quest per level and over 100 kills to gain a level.

Hope this post wasnt too "ramble like".