Curse

DFrost · Jul 10, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleur De Lyss

if you want a good start at the beginning of GW 2 - You're most likely title farming, and most titles, now require Grinding.

I see this in every other thread. Have I missed something, because I have never seen an interview/article that claims that HoM and titles would give some concrete benefit in GW2 like gold, better weapons, armor, etc.? I've only read about cosmetic rewards which don't give a GW1 player any real advantage over new GW2 players. This would make sense, and personally I doubt they will offer anything more; if anyone expects to get the GW2 equivalent of black lotus, stone of jordan or the holy grail because of accomplishments in GW1, he/she will probably be sorely disappointed.

Arduin · Jul 10, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

There are three types of grind in Guild Wars: Grind for vanity, grind for story progression, and grind for mechanical benefit...

Nice and clear post there. It's true, nobody was complaining about the costs of FoW armor when Ecto still were 15k each. If you wanted that ridiculously expensive armor, you'd better start farming for it.

However, as soon as the benefits of that farming/grinding starts giving actual benefits instead of just another skin, people will start complaining about that very grinding.

Still, some people don't care about having to grind. Some even like it. If they can improve their character by completing simple tasks over and over, they'll happily do so. That's their way of playing the game.

Other people detest this way. Those are the skill>time people, something GW was advertising with from the start. They choose not to grind, but find out after completing the campaigns there's not much left for them to do, without having to resort to grinding. For those people, GW has changed for the worse, I'll admit that much.

Playing from the launch of GW, I've been having fun finishing all campaigns, farming a bit, chatting with some friends now and then. Now, I'm at the point of having completed all PvE content at least once. I'm not interested in PvP, or grinding obsessively. I do enjoy some grinding, like completing Dungeon Books for a title, just because one of my goals is to acquire GWAMM on my main character. Yet, I severely cut down on my playing time for GW. Instead of 2-3 hours a day, it went to 2-3 hours a week. It will take me some time maxing those last titles, but I'll make sure I'm still enjoying it.

So maybe that's a suggestion for all those people burn-out on GW. Go play some different game, or something different entirely. GW will still be there when you log in one month later. You can't force yourself to like this game. If you stop liking it, stop playing it.

Abedeus · Jul 10, 2008, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

for everyone who says getting the require material to get something in the game is grinding, why don't you suggest a better way to get chaos glove or any armor

A scavenger hunt/long quest?

Quote:

There are three types of grind in Guild Wars: Grind for vanity, grind for story progression, and grind for mechanical benefit...

Too bad when two of them mix with each other.

Fril Estelin · Jul 10, 2008, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFrost

I see this in every other thread. Have I missed something, because I have never seen an interview/article that claims that HoM and titles would give some concrete benefit in GW2 like gold, better weapons, armor, etc.? I've only read about cosmetic rewards which don't give a GW1 player any real advantage over new GW2 players. This would make sense, and personally I doubt they will offer anything more; if anyone expects to get the GW2 equivalent of black lotus, stone of jordan or the holy grail because of accomplishments in GW1, he/she will probably be sorely disap1pointed.

You're correct. HoM will not give a headstart or any kind of advantage. Those that incorrectly read the information and spread this false information are going to be beyond disappointment when GW2 comes out ...

Ctb · Jul 10, 2008, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

for everyone who says getting the require material to get something in the game is grinding, why don't you suggest a better way to get chaos glove or any armor.

It's not my job to design the game, I'm the consumer. As the consumer, I'm under no obligation to accept flawed design mechanics just because making it an actual game was "too hard". As a consumer who doesn't accept those flawed mechanics, I'll gripe all I want about grind. Also, since I'm not an imbecile, I won't keep playing a game that's not fun just to get a stupid looking glove. Personally, I don't think repeating the same couple of areas over and over again by brainlessly hitting the 1-8 keys on my keyboard to get a stack of little icons is fun.

But, since you asked, it's pretty easy. It's been done in, what, a thousand other non-MMO games before?

You make them rewards for completing difficult tasks. None of this WoW-influenced crap where you have a 2% drop rate on a piece of armor you HAVE TO have to get through the next dungeon to repeat the entire process on a new piece of armor with a 2% drop rate.

None of this crap where you have to grind through the same couple of UW and FoW quests and monsters just to get enough materials to produce one stupid armor set that has no actual bearing on the game beyond what you see on screen.

You design a game that's enjoyable to play, and you offer increasingly difficult challenges, and you reward people for doing them. If it's just a fun game, people won't mind doing the increasingly difficult things. Reference: Tetris.

Unfortunately, MMO manufacturers apparently never played any fun games, so what you get is a bunch of half-arsed garbage where you click on an enemy, wail away for a few minutes, and get some useless junk so you can repeat it all over again for hundreds of hours of your life.

Guild Wars came close by creating a fun game, but they forgot to provide any rewards for doing more difficult content. If somebody could combine the tactical aspects of Guild Wars and the reward-based gameplay of WoW, they'd have a great game. Too bad nobody's doing that.

Rakim B · Jul 10, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Guild wars has a good story line.

I think I'm having Arby's for lunch

Banane-O-Man · Jul 10, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

They should make a title about people bitching.

pumpkin pie · Jul 10, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

It's not my job to design the game, I'm the consumer. As the consumer, I'm under no obligation to accept flawed design mechanics just because making it an actual game was "too hard". As a consumer who doesn't accept those flawed mechanics, I'll gripe all I want about grind. Also, since I'm not an imbecile, I won't keep playing a game that's not fun just to get a stupid looking glove. Personally, I don't think repeating the same couple of areas over and over again by brainlessly hitting the 1-8 keys on my keyboard to get a stack of little icons is fun.

But, since you asked, it's pretty easy. It's been done in, what, a thousand other non-MMO games before?

You make them rewards for completing difficult tasks. None of this WoW-influenced crap where you have a 2% drop rate on a piece of armor you HAVE TO have to get through the next dungeon to repeat the entire process on a new piece of armor with a 2% drop rate.

None of this crap where you have to grind through the same couple of UW and FoW quests and monsters just to get enough materials to produce one stupid armor set that has no actual bearing on the game beyond what you see on screen.

You design a game that's enjoyable to play, and you offer increasingly difficult challenges, and you reward people for doing them. If it's just a fun game, people won't mind doing the increasingly difficult things. Reference: Tetris.

Unfortunately, MMO manufacturers apparently never played any fun games, so what you get is a bunch of half-arsed garbage where you click on an enemy, wail away for a few minutes, and get some useless junk so you can repeat it all over again for hundreds of hours of your life.

Guild Wars came close by creating a fun game, but they forgot to provide any rewards for doing more difficult content. If somebody could combine the tactical aspects of Guild Wars and the reward-based gameplay of WoW, they'd have a great game. Too bad nobody's doing that.

2% drop rate doing difficult task? Is that not like going to FoW to farm for ectos?

actually i also have an idea, weather it can be done is not for me to decide, but i think I can, just means more works on Anet's part.

Make the necessary materials drop in different places :P~ Instead of always doing the same run over and over and over you move the materials all over the place. And you change the monsters's skill and ability every where, say every month or better still unannounced, so if you want to farm for something you have to really look for it, you can't just go to FoW for ecto or where ever for arm braces, and to know where it drops, friends and alliance comes in handy, or you better know your game! cos , monsters should not be that stupid, and should not be stationary and only appear in one place, for instant, how stupid are the destroyers that everyday players kill them ans still they are there waiting to be kill, and how effective can destroyers be if they are always at one single place.

draxynnic · Jul 10, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

QFT and I like your comment on XP grind.

*bows*

What lead me to that realisation was a merger of two others:

First, the difference between having a title level that requires lots of grind and one that doesn't generally isn't all that big. It's probably about a couple of level's worth.

Second, it's not really the idea of working for those extra one or two levels that bothers me. It's that the only way to get them is to engage in repetitive behaviour - grind, in other words. There are still plenty of quests in Kaineng and Nightfall I haven't even done once - it might actually be something I'd appreciate it if they gave more than a haldful of gold, 1/5 of a superior salvage kit, and a few more points to a meaningless number (which XP really is after the first few hundred thousand. I have more skill points than I could ever spend even on my least-used character...)

Levelling via XP can be grind-free, as long as there's enough non-grinding content to gain that experience without grinding - which Guild Wars has, and which is why story progression grind doesn't bother me (because it can be collected easily enough while doing quests, I don't consider it grind at all). The problem is that the way that the GW is currently set up, maxing titles requires far more points than questing can give - ergo, grind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

So maybe that's a suggestion for all those people burn-out on GW. Go play some different game, or something different entirely. GW will still be there when you log in one month later. You can't force yourself to like this game. If you stop liking it, stop playing it.

Which is pretty much what I've been doing. Nowadays, I tend to log in on weekends (when there's a chance guildies are on) and maybe I'll do a little on a weekday. Myself, I'm looking at finishing the campaigns with all professions rather than chasing a title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

Guild Wars came close by creating a fun game, but they forgot to provide any rewards for doing more difficult content. If somebody could combine the tactical aspects of Guild Wars and the reward-based gameplay of WoW, they'd have a great game. Too bad nobody's doing that.

Maybe that's what GW2 is aiming for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

2% drop rate doing difficult task? Is that not like going to FoW to farm for ectos?

Not if it only drops from the boss at the end of the dungeon, and there are other people in your party who might want it as well.

(Besides, to nitpick, it's the UW you go to for ectos.

)

AshenX · Jul 10, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleur De Lyss

Saying that is the same as saying "You can only be succesful if you want to be"

if you want a good start at the beginning of GW 2 - You're most likely title farming, and most titles, now require Grinding.

So I guess, Yes, GW Is not a grind game if you DON'T want to have all the nice things it offers, but if you DO you have to grind. And I believe that is what makes a grind game a grind game, whether you agree or not.

Ah but I can have all of the nice things without grind. I can have great storylines, awesome graphics, wonderful gameplay, and a fun guild/alliance full of nice people. none of those required grind.....

As regards to the benefits for GW2 of a full HoM in GW1...I personally dont think that they will be all that important. I hope that such benefits are cosmetic at best because I want to see alot of new players for GW2 and I do believe that people will be put off they know that you had to play GW1 extensively in order to be on a par with players in the new stand-alone game of GW2.

Damian979 · Jul 10, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

guild wars- great game, fun, no grind

present guild wars- all the same, and OPTIONAL grind.

everyone who complains about grind is jealous because other people have cooler stuff than them, and they want it without taking time. I'm not a grinder either, and i only have 4 suits of 15k armour from light farming over the years.

If you want to go into an elite area, there is no option about it. You MUST grind lightbringer and you MUST grind norn. In order to have a full HoM, you MUST grind other titles too unless you can afford the "buyable" titles to fill it, in which case you MUST grind for the cash to afford it.

This is all stupidly easy to do, and stupid being the operative word because I can feel it killing brains cells whenever I MUST grind something just to take part in something in this game.

I have beaten all the campaigns with all my char's and I don't feel like spending another 10$ just for another slot so I can do it again.

Jealousy? No, I have most the items and all the "leet" armor sets I like. I don't care about being number 5,000,001 to own a pair of chaos gloves or a tormented weapon/amethyst aegis combo or an inventory clogged with 15k armor to "feel special".

I just want to be able to go to DoA or UW or FoW with ANY char I feel like playing that day without having to do 20 hrs of mind-numbing crap first.

Shadowspawn X · Jul 10, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

You're correct. HoM will not give a headstart or any kind of advantage. Those that incorrectly read the information and spread this false information are going to be beyond disappointment when GW2 comes out ...

Current titles don't give much advantage in game but people like to wear them and people still want to show their Koabd track in GW2 so if the reward is vanity people are shooting for it for that reason not to get an advantage but to have status. There is an undercurrent of some people who don't want to see anybody get anything other than a booby prize but we already covered what they are all about.

Ctb · Jul 10, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

2% drop rate doing difficult task? Is that not like going to FoW to farm for ectos?

Yea, which is why I could also never stomach playing World of Warcraft for more than a month or two at time.

Quote:

Instead of always doing the same run over and over and over you move the materials all over
the place. And you change the monsters's skill and ability every where, say every month or better still unannounced, so if you want to farm for something you have to really look for it, you can't just go to FoW for ecto or where ever for arm braces, and to know where it drops, friends and alliance comes in handy, or you better know your game!

Sooo... instead of just grinding through the same MOBs over and over.... I'd have to chase them around the map to grind through them over and over?

That would make me stabby.

Actually, if MMO makers would focus on making a FUN game instead of focusing on keeping nerds with 8 hours a day of free time happy, MMOs might actually be worth playing. Tell the little nutjobs that spend 3000 hours every year on the game to go pound sand when they whine that they blew through all the content and there's nothing left to do. Rather than focusing on trying to keep them on their little mouse wheel month after month, I wish someone would focus on just making a fun game and not worrying about it when 1% of the playerbase blows through it in 3 weeks.

The other 99% of us who have jobs and sex will keep playing if it's fun, don't worry about the nerd-raging basement dwellers, kthxbai.

Darksun · Jul 10, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleur De Lyss

Isnt that all GW is becomming ? I Mean, really

We grind points for all of our titles, Just so that we can Grind Farm to make money to buy overpriced items which guild wars shows clear support for by creating Chaos Gloves (if you have them - You have been girnd farming/you bought gold (from grind farmers)).

I mean really, Why hasnt anyone said anything/why aren't they trying to prevent this at all ?

How about you name an MMO with less grind, then we'll talk about how to fix GW.

romeus petrus · Jul 10, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonora Windleaf

Surely, the greatest rewards don't show when you press H (Hero) key, but rather G (Guild) key and N (F-list) key. Without those I wouldn't be playing anymore. (I rarely do these days though, but that's another story)

You just won this thread..

Ctb · Jul 10, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

How about you name an MMO with less grind, then we'll talk about how to fix GW.

All that proves is that the whole MMO genre sucks. Being the least sucky of a sucky thing isn't something to be proud of.

pumpkin pie · Jul 10, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

(Besides, to nitpick, it's the UW you go to for ectos.

)

ah! damn it, the secret is out! I don't farm or grind!

that's why i still enjoy the game lololol

Ctb: I was thinking, and reading the QQ regarding grind post, players were not happy they have to do the same thing over and over again, that's why i tought of moving the materials around. this way the "grind" changes everytime, hence not a grind becasue they are different everytime, players also can't go straight to an outpost with Ursan anymore, you have to know where they drop, and what mob are there waiting.

Beside i was thinking of myself, the way I play, I probably get more ectos then anyone else, cos i play different maps everyday with different profession character, with different build, killing all enemies on the map. lololol :P~

Rocky Raccoon · Jul 10, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleur De Lyss

Saying that is the same as saying "You can only be succesful if you want to be"

if you want a good start at the beginning of GW 2 - You're most likely title farming, and most titles, now require Grinding.

So I guess, Yes, GW Is not a grind game if you DON'T want to have all the nice things it offers, but if you DO you have to grind. And I believe that is what makes a grind game a grind game, whether you agree or not.

Where has it been said that anything in the Hall will give you any benefit at the start of GW2? First of all that would be totally unfair to anyone who buys GW2 without ever having played GW1. The most you will gain is something that shows you played GW1, but will give you no advantage over first time players. That being said, the grind is not necessary unless you want some type of honorary acknowledge of what you accomplished in GW1.

Darksun · Jul 10, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

All that proves is that the whole MMO genre sucks. Being the least sucky of a sucky thing isn't something to be proud of.

That's like my saying that Puzzle games are boring therefore the Puzzle Game genre sucks. Wonderful logic, especially when there are only 2 required grinds in the whole of 4 games. You might need to look into ADD treatment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

If you want to go into an elite area, there is no option about it. You MUST grind lightbringer and you MUST grind norn. In order to have a full HoM, you MUST grind other titles too unless you can afford the "buyable" titles to fill it, in which case you MUST grind for the cash to afford it.

wait, why do you need lightbringer & Norn for elite areas? UW,FoW,SF,ToPK,SE,Urgoz,Deep,DoA,.... which one requires a LB or Norn title?

Rocky Raccoon · Jul 10, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

All that proves is that the whole MMO genre sucks. Being the least sucky of a sucky thing isn't something to be proud of.

If you really believe that why do you play an MMO?