Curse

Dallcingi · Jul 10, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

I got chaos gloves by doing predictions
is that grind?

Chasing Squirrels · Jul 10, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

would you rather play guild wars if they removed all the optional grind?
lets take a look!

guild wars- great game, fun, no grind

present guild wars- all the same, and OPTIONAL grind.

everyone who complains about grind is jealous because other people have cooler stuff than them, and they want it without taking time. I'm not a grinder either, and i only have 4 suits of 15k armour from light farming over the years.

Whats the point of getting all this cool stuff it doesnt advance my character. Is there a fashion show going on?

FireFox · Jul 10, 2008, 12:57 AM // 00:57

o lawd o lawd if my asura title isn't maxed i jus' don't know what I be doin' with myself...

fireflyry · Jul 10, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

GW2 is looking more and more like a 2010 release....they had to keep PvE players interested in GW somehow.

Short answer...yes.

Kanyatta · Jul 10, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

would you rather play guild wars if they removed all the optional grind?
lets take a look!

guild wars- great game, fun, no grind

present guild wars- all the same, and OPTIONAL grind.

everyone who complains about grind is jealous because other people have cooler stuff than them, and they want it without taking time. I'm not a grinder either, and i only have 4 suits of 15k armour from light farming over the years.

I am a grind-complainer, and it's not because of shiny items. I have 6 PvE characters, and 2 PvP slots. I am mainly a PvPer, but whenever I'm on GW and not PvPing, I do PvE. I play PvE alot, I would say. I have beaten every campaign on at least 2 of my characters, and I'm just like "What is there left for me to do here.. really?" All that's really left is getting KoaBD, which I am currently working on on my Ranger (I got 3 max titles in about 2 hours... was kind of weird).

The only content I have left to explore really, is vanquishing every area, doing every mission NM and HM masters, and do cartographer. Basically, I've exhausted PvE except for grinding. I suppose I could go and beat all 4 campaigns on each of my 6 characters, but... that would be a grind.

Edit: Also, when starting Nightfall chars, there's a few primary quests that are "Grind to Sunspear rank 5." Those should be done away with imo.

Meat Axe · Jul 10, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

Also, when starting Nightfall chars, there's a few primary quests that are "Grind to Sunspear rank 5." Those should be done away with imo.

While I do agree somewhat that it is unfortunate that you have to get to rank 5 sunspear to advance the story, it takes no time at all. An hour or two and you've got it. That's the only mandatory grind in the game that I know of. And you don't even need to grind that. Do quests, making sure to pick up the bounties whenever you go into an explorable area, and you've got the title without the grind.

I will never understand why so many people think that all the grind in the game is something they've got to do, as if they'll catch a horrible, wilting disease if they don't. As many others have said, you can complete the game without any grind at all (except the aforementioned sunspear title, which is only a grind if you make it that way). You don't need prestige items. You don't need PvE skills (which are still quite powerful at lower ranks, so I really don't see the problem there).

Sure, there is some title discrimination, but honestly, before that there was profession discrimination, and I'd much rather it the way it is now. It's much easier to grind a title than it is to change my primary profession. You also have another choice. Don't join those groups. Find a guild who also doesn't like titles and PvE skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleur de Lyss

Unless you're completely er.. dumb. You can't say Grinding isnt needed. Its not just farming its title capture also. We're all (most of us) trying to achieve more titles due to the HoM and most of them can't be done without grinding.

Why does the existence of the HoM affect anything? You do realise that all you will get for your HoM achievements in GW2 will probably just be some titles that show that you did it in GW1. It's already been stated that nothing you do for the HoM will give you any advantage over any other player. It is also in no way required, so your argument is irrelevant.

Tyla · Jul 10, 2008, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

(except the aforementioned sunspear title, which is only a grind if you make it that way).

As far as I'm concerned, it's still a requirement for completion.

Don't forget the 10k faction thing too...

fireflyry · Jul 10, 2008, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meat Axe

I will never understand why so many people think that all the grind in the game is something they've got to do, as if they'll catch a horrible, wilting disease if they don't. As many others have said, you can complete the game without any grind at all (except the aforementioned sunspear title, which is only a grind if you make it that way).

I think that's because your confusing the fact most players that object to grind agree with you.

You don't need any of that stuff to finish the game but it makes it a heck load more fun and tbh what exactly is there to do after finishing the game.....exactly.

My objection has always been that every player at lvl 20 was on a level playing field which was easily attained, that was GW, until they invented PvE only skills who's potency is linked to grind, which turned it into Grindwars imo.

Considering the PvE skills are OP'd or pretty game altering it's like making players with those titles maxed who use the skills lvl 21-22 and then saying to the community "But you don't HAVE to be lvl 22....it's only an option".

Nainoa · Jul 10, 2008, 02:27 AM // 02:27

I don't have a problem with grinds in RPG type games. That's just a necessary part of this type of game. However, in my past experiences with games like WoW, Warcraft, and Elder Scrolls whenever you finally get to the end of the grind you feel like it was worth it the majority of the time.

I am not an experienced GW player, but from what I have experienced myself and from the knowledge I gained through wikis and forums there isn't much to be satisfied with at the end of the grind. The things you grind for in this game such as titles or loads of money for a rare skinned item don't actually improve your gameplay or characters as they do in other RPGs.

In the endgame of GW the rewards for grinding are just for show. Maybe that's appealing to kids who crave attention. It may even be satisfying for some of the lesser grinds initially, but it's the same thing with every endgame grind. It really doesn't improve gameplay experience whatsoever unless you need to feed your elitist attitude.

This problem is magnified somewhat due to the speed at which a player can reach the level cap and the speed at which you can finish the storyline. I've already bought all of the chapters so I'm going to stick with GW until I play through the storylines and quests, but you can forget about the long grinds. Once I'm done with that though there really isn't anything appealing about GW's endgame that makes me want to keep playing. I am disappointed about this, but I guess you can't expect too much since there's no subscription fee (aka incentive for developers to produce fun, creative endgame content).

Meat Axe · Jul 10, 2008, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

I think that's because your confusing the fact most players that object to grind agree with you.

You don't need any of that stuff to finish the game but it makes it a heck load more fun and tbh what exactly is there to do after finishing the game.....exactly.

If titles make the game more fun, then none of these threads would ever be created. Don't get me wrong. I actually enjoy having a goal that I want to get to. I enjoy working on those titles. But obviously, some people don't. And unforunately, most of those people have the mindset of "If it's there, I must have it. If I don't want it, it shouldn't be there."

There'll always be things that I won't be able to get in the game, because I don't enjoy what I would have to do to get them. For instance, I don't like PvP as far as I know, but I wouldn't mind getting the required rank in those titles to put them in my HoM (I'm a bit of a perfectionist, but luckily not so much that I will go out of my way to do something I don't enjoy to obtain something). I wouldn't mind playing PvP some more and see if I can enjoy it. Unfortunately, the attitude of a lot of PvP players, and overly competitive sorts in general, just puts me off. So getting into PvP would be some sort of grind for me, and therefore I won't subject myself to it (well, I am determined to at least give it more of a chance than I have in the past, but I'm not going to persevere if I'm hating it).

What is there to do after finishing the game? Well, you could always leave? Why do so many people think that playing this game is some sort of necessity? You can see it in those threads where people request ideas to revitalise the game in their eyes. If you're bored, or you have finished all that you want to do, then just leave. (Well, I do have some idea as to why so many people try to hold on. They remember what it used to be like. But there's no point holding on to something that is definitely never coming back, and that's what many people need to realise. It's like holding on to a loveless, dead marriage. It's sad to let it go, but it is healthy in the long run.)

1 up and 2 down · Jul 10, 2008, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleur De Lyss

if you want a good start at the beginning of GW 2 - You're most likely title farming, and most titles, now require Grinding.

Here is the problem. You don't get a "good start" by having these titles complete. You don't get better armor/weapons than everyone else. You don't start at a higher level. And you don't get the best skills at the start of the game.

What you get from these titles in the HoM are just vanity items that don't make you any better than anyone else when you start. We will probably get a title or a mini pet of some sort. Here is a wild one, maybe we will be able to make the color of our armor red when we first make our characters while everyone else can only choose from green/blue/brown armor.

So like others have said, you don't need to grind in GW.

bhavv · Jul 10, 2008, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Besides I heard guilds did areas without ursan.

Nope, you heard wrong.

Just about all of the top, elite PVE guilds run Ursan. I have been in a few.

If you manage to find a guild that doesnt run ursan, it wont have daily fow runs due to a serious shortage of people.

Making SS/LB and the Gwen titles abount based would help a great deal for reducing grind on multiple characters. Just like the cantha titles are.

Lord Sojar · Jul 10, 2008, 04:49 AM // 04:49

There is this great thing called the search function. It is your friend...

Guild Wars has grind, yes. Does it have a ton of grind in comparison to other games? No, not since they fixed a few things (like making book turn in very lucrative)

Does the grind appeal to a lot of the PvEers? Yes.

End.

Thizzle · Jul 10, 2008, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Who cares. It's a well priced game.

Kanyatta · Jul 10, 2008, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

Who cares. It's a well priced game.

I've put $200 into Guild Wars, I'd like to think after moving on from it that I got my $200 worth.

draxynnic · Jul 10, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59

There are three types of grind in Guild Wars: Grind for vanity, grind for story progression, and grind for mechanical benefit.

Grind for vanity has always been there, and few if anyone ever complains about them. If someone wants to put in the grind for obsidian armour with chaos gloves and GWAMM, more power to them, as long as it's still a level playing field.

The grind for story progression - specifically, the Kurz/Lux faction and Sunspear rank - which I actually kinda liked in principle, although the implementation left a little to be desired. With the exception of the Luxons (which really should have had more quests in the pre-Gyala areas) there were enough quests available to achieve the progression requirement that you could achieve the requirement by questing rather than grinding. Essentially, they acted like a quest branch, but instead of just one or two choices, you had a whole range of choices. Maybe the SS one would have worked better if there actually weren't bounties at all and quests gave considerably more points each to highlight the connection and make it so that grinding just wasn't an option, but the general idea wasn't too bad.

Grind for mechanical benefit started sneaking in before Nightfall and got steadily worse from there. This is the one people have problems with, as they mean the playing field simply isn't level any more - especially considering that most of the truly broken builds out there rely on at least one or two PvE skill, to be competitive with someone who's done the grind you have to do it yourself. This is highlighted by the fact that, unlike the story progression grinds, there simply aren't the quests to max your title - you're forced to engage in some kind of repetitive activity to get there, whether it's filling books over and over again or zone clearing expeditions.

This is why I've said in the past that I'd rather have general XP grind than title grind - then people could advance their character in whatever means they choose instead of being restricted to a handful of specific activities that increase a title.

Regarding GW2 and the HoM: Everything the company has said so far is that the contents of the HoM will provide no mechanical benefit over people who don't have it. Of course, they say the same thing about preorder items... which, while no better than can be acquired during play, are nonetheless much more convenient to acquire. Still, the indication seems to be a strong one that not filling the HoM will not be putting you at a disadvantage for the sequel.

fireflyry · Jul 10, 2008, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meat Axe

What is there to do after finishing the game? Well, you could always leave?

For sure and I play GW a lot less now I've finished it.

The thing is customers will be customers.Some will leave, some will stay.Many will argue that Anet has replaced content with grind.

At the end of the day it's all opinion and I think every one who payed cash for the game has that right.

Again my only issue is changing the max cap tier through grind based OP'd PvE skills.Other than that I have no issue with grind as it doesn't effect my game, as it shouldn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Grind for mechanical benefit started sneaking in before Nightfall and got steadily worse from there. This is the one people have problems with, as they mean the playing field simply isn't level any more - especially considering that most of the truly broken builds out there rely on at least one or two PvE skill, to be competitive with someone who's done the grind you have to do it yourself. This is highlighted by the fact that, unlike the story progression grinds, there simply aren't the quests to max your title - you're forced to engage in some kind of repetitive activity to get there, whether it's filling books over and over again or zone clearing expeditions.

This is why I've said in the past that I'd rather have general XP grind than title grind - then people could advance their character in whatever means they choose instead of being restricted to a handful of specific activities that increase a title.

QFT and I like your comment on XP grind.

Leonora Windleaf · Jul 10, 2008, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

How can you say that a well-run guild is not one of the greatest pleasures one can have in game? Do you want a badge for everything you do? Little piece of text to improve your weak self-esteem?

QFT

Surely, the greatest rewards don't show when you press H (Hero) key, but rather G (Guild) key and N (F-list) key. Without those I wouldn't be playing anymore. (I rarely do these days though, but that's another story)

pumpkin pie · Jul 10, 2008, 08:29 AM // 08:29

for everyone who says getting the require material to get something in the game is grinding, why don't you suggest a better way to get chaos glove or any armor.

one day while holding hands with Koss, walking along the lonely path of jahai bluff, I suddenly push Koss away with brute force because far ahead I see a chaos glove dropping from the sky. and i wanted chaos glove for some time now, so I had to push him away fairly quickly, only to realise that I've push him towards the glove even closer. at lass, i did not get the glove , but was very happy to find out that is only a left side.

Proff · Jul 10, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleur De Lyss

Isnt that all GW is becomming ? I Mean, really

We grind points for all of our titles, Just so that we can Grind Farm to make money to buy overpriced items which guild wars shows clear support for by creating Chaos Gloves (if you have them - You have been girnd farming/you bought gold (from grind farmers)).

I mean really, Why hasnt anyone said anything/why aren't they trying to prevent this at all ?

If you took more than 2 seconds to think and share your thoughts with the community you'd realize that Guild Wars or any game has absolutely no meaning and achieving anything in game doesn't count for nothing outside of it and that they're purely a means of ENTERTAINMENT like watching tv and getting wasted, you're doing it for fun not titles or chaos gloves.