Curse

upier · Aug 11, 2008, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Yes, lets ignore the thing that makes it bad in order to add fluff to the things that would perhaps make it otherwise decent if far superior skills did not in fact exist.
Yes, lets.

Let's bring it into PvP for that matter shall we?

The reason why it's not THAT great is because it bring one-shot kills into a game where one-shot kills should not exist.
But then again - it IS PvE we are talking about ...

Gun Pierson · Aug 11, 2008, 11:58 AM // 11:58

I have been testing this skill for a couple of days in Charr and non-Charr territory. The skill is not reliable. With only 10% chance, you miss the spike on the important targets a lot. On top it happens that you 'overkill' something when it does trigger. You target an ele creep for example, if you miss, the creep will long been death or lost a lot of health by the time you can snipe again. In Charr areas, it's somewhat usefull because of the increased odds.

It's simply not efficient, but it sure is fun and I like it for the giggles. I have no problem it's a 900 dmg skill, that's what a sniper stands for, yes even in this game. The chance to miss makes up for that.

It's a fun PvE only skill and that's how it should be.

romeus petrus · Aug 11, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

I agree what a few have pointed out already. I would take it if Im going against chars. Otherwise you can prolly do better..

Snow Bunny · Aug 11, 2008, 04:43 PM // 16:43

If you packed this on 10/12 bars in say Urgoz, this could work, but it's not very good.

zwei2stein · Aug 11, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

If you packed this on 10/12 bars in say Urgoz, this could work, but it's not very good.

Pretty much any direct damage skill would work when 10 people spike with it.

Jetdoc · Aug 11, 2008, 05:52 PM // 17:52

I think you guys are focusing a bit too much on the conditional damage...

A ranged attack that "can't miss" that does 83 piercing damage and causes bleeding is not too bad. Add Signet of Infection to this and that's a pretty quick and cheap combo.

I've been playing with that combo and it's pretty fun, especially for the "hit and run" raids that I like to run.

In addition, I can't think of a skill that can cause an instant kill to an uninjured opponent...that is kind of fun as well.

I'm not saying this is an awesome skill, but it definitely isn't the "crap" that it's being made out to be in this thread.

DarkNecrid · Aug 11, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

guyz i just wantd to post2 day dat dis topic is doomb. dis skill is pr0 bc it is rly gud.

i wil compre 2 similr skillz 2:

powr atk and evss

ok so pwr atk takes roughly 22 times to kil a shiro & he mite kill u lol!!!

evss takes roughly -10 times to kil a shiro bc the bonus dmg triggers sometimes and it is equal to 10 application so basically u r kiling shiro be4 u use skill pretty pro eh???

Seriously tho, like Jet Doc said (I just got the Signet of Infection.

) and it is pretty good. I'd consider it above Lightning Orb even. That combo is even sicker when you note they buffed Extend Conditions so you can basically use Technobabble and it and spread Bleeding, Disease, and Dazed in an AoE forever.

Innocent · Aug 11, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

guyz i just wantd to post2 day dat dis topic is doomb. dis skill is pr0 bc it is rly gud.

i wil compre 2 similr skillz 2:

powr atk and evss

ok so pwr atk takes roughly 22 times to kil a shiro & he mite kill u lol!!!

evss takes roughly -10 times to kil a shiro bc the bonus dmg triggers sometimes and it is equal to 10 application so basically u r kiling shiro be4 u use skill pretty pro eh???

Seriously tho, like Jet Doc said (I just got the Signet of Infection.

) and it is pretty good. I'd consider it above Lightning Orb even. That combo is even sicker when you note they buffed Extend Conditions so you can basically use Technobabble and it and spread Bleeding, Disease, and Dazed in an AoE forever.

+2 DF Honor. /thread

R.Shayne · Aug 12, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I have had it trigger several times against charr and never once against anything else. It is not a "crap" skill but it is not reliable enough to be considered overpowered. I think ANET got this one pretty close to balanced (or as close to balanced as any pve-only skill can get).

As for using it in elite areas on 8 man farm teams, sure as an optional but you are still going to need a solid build to complete these areas.

Dimitri_Stucoff · Aug 12, 2008, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Yes, lets ignore the thing that makes it bad in order to add fluff to the things that would perhaps make it otherwise decent if far superior skills did not in fact exist.

Yes, lets.

Could you explain how the 10% insta-kill (or in hard mode, near death) is bad? If nothing else would this not make it good. I think you should be saying, "Lets ignore the thing that makes it in some eyes exceptional...". Heck I would want all my skills to have this in addition to their current effects. Now if it was something like "Sacrifice half your health" or "costs 50 energy" I would understand the omission, but when you omit a potentially (do note I said potentially) "weak imba" part of the skill it only makes your claim why it is good a bit stronger, as you do not have to lean on that one factor as a crutch.

I think the point of the post your referring to is to take off the controversial and debated part and analyze the skill in a different light. I myself have not had a lot of time to play since the skill update but I can see why this skill could potentially be "fun" if nothing else than being able to have a non-spec, non-elite skill with the potential to heavily weaken or kill a foe, that has decent damage and effect, and with decent combo power (sig of infection, epidemic, virulence, fragility, hypochondria, fevered Dreams. If the skill does not kill them the backlash from the conditions will). Granted making new builds can be fun.

Heck this skill would go extremely well on a mesmer/necro condition spike team build build. At least in my eyes you would have to have multiple people running this skill for it to be decent (to get max comboage) and tool everyone's build to maximize the use (heavy hex degen and conditions.). Additionally, you would have to have an area with very little hex and condition removal. Granted if you end up one shotting the monks that wont be a problem, and if 8 people bring it odds are that will happen in ~15 seconds (provided no one gets a fast recharge). Another thing that might work is this combined with cry of pain. Fill with conditions, get fragility as your mesmer trigger hex and hit with cry while you wait.

Long story short. The skill has promise that it is decent, however, it's life lives in certain builds (hex, degen, condition spike), and areas(little hex and condition removal). It is not one skill to rule them all. Granted, if you have the space on your bar and the ability to run another PVE skill (IE, move like a dwarf is not that useful, pain inverter is covered by others in the group, etc etc), this would be a fun and somewhat useful one to bring.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 12, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

It really isn't build dependent at all, it's a mediocre spike skill with a chance to instagib something. It fits in any build. Also, multiple copies of it kinda defeat the point. If you have 8 copies of it, you cast it all on the one or two biggest threats. Most likely, they die. However, you could have done the same thing with 8 lightning orbs, or just killed everything with 8 cry of pains.

The real purpose of this skill is to activate it at random, then clap your hands and drool happily on the rare chance that it procs the instagib.

Laylat · Aug 12, 2008, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Use it if you're feeling lucky... If it criticals, then bravo to you.

Stolen Souls · Aug 12, 2008, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Yeah I'd rather just bring something else. Relying on luck for something to be useful isn't my cup of tea. Since my luck is terribad and all.

Avarre · Aug 12, 2008, 11:21 AM // 11:21

If you take into account the skill's wizkill effect as a benefit, then you have to also account for the amount of overkill the skill can produce, which reduces the actual effectiveness of the 10%.

PvE is about speed, and balanced high DPS tends to beat irregular spikiness.

Vaal 84 · Aug 12, 2008, 11:54 AM // 11:54

They should tie in the % for critical hits to your lucky title. that would make the title slightly more useful than a few extra % when i piss away gold on lockpicks.

zwei2stein · Aug 12, 2008, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

If you take into account the skill's wizkill effect as a benefit, then you have to also account for the amount of overkill the skill can produce, which reduces the actual effectiveness of the 10%.

PvE is about speed, and balanced high DPS tends to beat irregular spikiness.

I see this as off-target skill in party that already has all the FH! and alikes they can have. There is only so much of that stuff you can bring before it becomes redundant.

Caller throws it on full-hp off target before calling him while other are slaughtering main target. If it procs and he finds new target and calls it if it wont proc he follows with infection and calls it.

You usually have caller preparing targets with barbs/mop in advance, this skill adds icing to that cake.

Avarre · Aug 12, 2008, 12:13 PM // 12:13

The problem with that is 9/10 times he could have used a better skill on the target, one that may have had a shorter recharge so that he can call off targets faster. Even in the case of using it that way (which is probably one of the most efficient uses of it), the copies on other party members aren't likely going to get the most use. Sure, I suppose you could all pick targets and use it, but in that case you could run a solid spike skill on a standard bar and get a confirmed kill every time.

Snow Bunny · Aug 12, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitri_Stucoff

Could you explain how the 10% insta-kill (or in hard mode, near death) is bad? If nothing else would this not make it good.

Because it has a 10% chance of making itself worth bringing.

Alright - when you have your typical monk bar, how often do you use the skills you brought? If you're a good monk, you constructed a good build and will frequently use most if not all the skills on your bar.

Imagine if [word of healing] was "heal for 60, 10% chance of 225 heal". No smart player would bring that. Now ramp up the heal to "heal for 60, 10% chance of 700 heal". You still wouldn't bring it, because while it's so unreliable. If you wanted a 500+ heal you'd bring [infuse health], because at least it's reliable, despite the whole 50% deal.

With only 8 skills to bring, bar compression is crucial.

zwei2stein · Aug 12, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Because it has a 10% chance of making itself worth bringing.

Alright - when you have your typical monk bar, how often do you use the skills you brought? If you're a good monk, you constructed a good build and will frequently use most if not all the skills on your bar.

Imagine if [word of healing] was "heal for 60, 10% chance of 225 heal". No smart player would bring that. Now ramp up the heal to "heal for 60, 10% chance of 700 heal". You still wouldn't bring it, because while it's so unreliable. If you wanted a 500+ heal you'd bring [infuse health], because at least it's reliable, despite the whole 50% deal.

With only 8 skills to bring, bar compression is crucial.

Think of RoF which would have 10% chance to also enchant target with prot spirit. Would you take it to fill in "RoF" slot?

I think that you would bring this skill if reliable part was decent enough so that random bonus would be meaningless.

Imho people denouncing EVSS as lame do exactly same thing as people who construct echo-way builds with it: they pay too much attention to unreliable random stuff.

Snow Bunny · Aug 12, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Think of RoF which would have 10% chance to also enchant target with prot spirit. Would you take it to fill in "RoF" slot?

The difference is that RoF is useful.

Sniper Support is 10 energy, 15recharge, for a bit of small damage with a tiny chance to annihilate something.

RoF is 5 energy, 2sec recharge for a nice active small prot.

Before you all look at what the skill could do, look at what it reliably does.`