Curse

Moloch Vein · Aug 27, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

In pvp, 15^x can make a difference. In low-level pve, 15^x can make a difference.

In high-level pve, 15^x makes very little difference. It's completely superfluous.

If you, as a player or a hero, have even one single Radiant insignia on your armor, then +5 energy is a better option for high-level pve.

Tyla · Aug 27, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

If you don't need the energy don't use the mod.

You should only need the energy if you're bad and inable to switch to a zealous weapon.

Crom The Pale · Aug 27, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

A +5 energy weapon is something you might carry just to swap in for a must needed energy attack when your out of energy.

Otherwise you will always be using a 15^50 weapon. Remember that unless your in a really bad team if your health is below 50% your 1/2 second away from being healed or dead(assuming hard mode).

Now if a weapon could grant you an extra 1 or 2 pips of energy regeneration that would be a completely different story.

Spazzer · Aug 27, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zidane Ortef

Monk- High energy set for PvP and for PvE if you run out of energy your a horrible monk.

Or your team is horrible at pulling out when you give warning signals (seriously it happens :[).

Savio · Aug 27, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

In high-level pve, 15^x makes very little difference. It's completely superfluous.

If you, as a player or a hero, have even one single Radiant insignia on your armor, then +5 energy is a better option for high-level pve.

And what high-level PvE builds would be running Radiants and +5e weapons?

Tender Care · Aug 27, 2008, 05:07 PM // 17:07

As many did not notice (maybe) i said: +5 energy ALWAYS, not 15^50 and not weapons for casters....

Anyway: i did a pvp sin time ago and the problem i had in the build was that i was constantly running out of energy using a combo like [jagged strike] [temple strike] and [death blossom].....well...won't be the final combo but it's not even that bad. After this combo my energy was very low and wasn't able to use skill like defense/healing....

This is just an example, the thread is not about this build

Spazzer · Aug 27, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

And what high-level PvE builds would be running Radiants and +5e weapons?

I have a set of 55 armor.

It has radiants on it.

Martin Alvito · Aug 27, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

15^50 isn't as clear-cut a choice as some posters want to make it, but it's the pretty clear choice for most bars. Remember that the 15^50 only applies to base damage on the weapon. This leads to several situations where +5 energy makes sense:

1) Ranger without enough Marks to satisfy bow req. Ex: old-school Oath Shot spirit spam bars. You're not doing damage anyway, so you may as well +5 energy.

2) Sin with a very high energy attack string. Don't see these as often any more, but the old Expose/Shadow Prison bars used to be pretty energy intensive on the front end. Since daggers do little base damage, running a +5 energy set of daggers so that you could actually click Expose -> Shadow Prison -> Black Lotus was defensible. You give away little on your spike or your long-term pressure that way.

3) Paragon that just yells things and has nothing in Spear Mastery.

You can make the same arguments as above for energy-intensive sin and Crip Shot bars, although they are not quite as strong. The basic argument is the same - you're not nerfing a spike significantly enough to make an iron-clad case for 15^50.

Warriors and Dervishes should always run a mod that boosts damage; the same applies to Paragons that use their spears for more than just adrenaline.

zwei2stein · Aug 27, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Care

As many did not notice (maybe) i said: +5 energy ALWAYS, not 15^50 and not weapons for casters....

Anyway: i did a pvp sin time ago and the problem i had in the build was that i was constantly running out of energy using a combo like [jagged strike] [temple strike] and [death blossom].....well...won't be the final combo but it's not even that bad. After this combo my energy was very low and wasn't able to use skill like defense/healing....

This is just an example, the thread is not about this build

This is why weapon swaps exist: You switch to appropriate set which gives you enough energy to do whatever you want do without compromising your 15^50 martial weapon.

ALF71BE · Aug 27, 2008, 07:14 PM // 19:14

There's no point of 15^50 daggers, the dmg increase is near to inexistent...

cthulhu reborn · Aug 27, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I love +5 energy weapons. I use em all the time. It all depends on how you put your build together and most people don't have the creativity to think beyond 15^50 and sundering and cookie cutter builds. Just the way it is really...
In that sense, this is a really old discussion.

Esprit · Aug 27, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

I use +5 energy on my Ele's caster sword. With a caster sword and shield set I don't have the benefits of offhand energy gain and while I probably don't need the +5 energy. It comes in handy when skills are interrupted and I don't get the Attunement energy return and thus will have a higher energy base so that I can survive more energy denial or interrupt skills and still be functional.

Age · Aug 27, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

I would really like to see the HoD sword back or maybe as collectors sword in Tryia.This does not imbalanace the game and that sword did 14 to 21 damage not 15to 22 as the pvp version can.It went wll on a castor especaily if you could find enchanting mod for it.

I do use +5 e weapon on my Ranger and Derv. and there collectors in Nf that give them out I just don't like any craftable and collector skin other than the old HoD sword.

theblackmage · Aug 27, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

If you really need +5e on a Dervish build, then you're wasting 15^50 on the strongest weapon in the game.

I'm hardly an expert on this subject, but seeing as how dervs' primary attribute is, more or less, all about having enchants on you, isn't taking a 15^50 on a scythe over a 15 while enchanted like putting a huge "FAIL" inscription on your weapon?

Spazzer · Aug 27, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Point.

Counter-point: I don't run enchantments on my R/D.

Productivity · Aug 27, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by free_fall

15% on a 15-22 sword is 2.2 to 3.1 additional damage. Asumming you hit for 22 with every strike, it would still take 34 hits to effect an extra 100+ damage (102, to be precise) during that "difficul/long combat". During which time, with your E regenerating, you could squeeze a few extra E skills, rather than just the one, depending on the recharge time of the skills you use.

Your energy regeneration is the same no matter if you have a +5e sword or a 15^50. The only time the +5e sword would make a difference is in an opening burst (where you squeeze off one extra attack) and if you're riding your energy cap. If you're riding that cap you're bad and should get some more energy stuff to use.

credit · Aug 27, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

The only time I run a +5 energy mod is on a ranger or a caster weapon.

Zealous is good enough.

Tyla · Aug 27, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblackmage

I'm hardly an expert on this subject, but seeing as how dervs' primary attribute is, more or less, all about having enchants on you, isn't taking a 15^50 on a scythe over a 15 while enchanted like putting a huge "FAIL" inscription on your weapon?

If you're below 50% health, you're either going to be healed back up or you're going to die anyway. The only difference it makes is that if your Derv gets rended you keep the extra damage.

JR · Aug 27, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

I love +5 energy weapons. I use em all the time. It all depends on how you put your build together and most people don't have the creativity to think beyond 15^50 and sundering and cookie cutter builds. Just the way it is really...
In that sense, this is a really old discussion.

This is a three year old game that has changed relatively little during that time. Anything good has been long figured out, so thinking 'outside the box' almost always means you are doing something stupid.

Moloch Vein · Aug 27, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

And what high-level PvE builds would be running Radiants and +5e weapons?

I don't think you get what I tried to say. I might've worded it poorly.

If you need even one single Radiant insignia on your character in high-level PvE - it is better to switch that insignia for a Survivor or an armor-booster, and add the +5e on the sword instead of the 15^50.