Curse

nelifaroma · Sep 03, 2008, 04:44 AM // 04:44

VOR is so overpowered in RA but then again, anet dont give a damn about RA. ironically its the most played pvp type match in gw.

VOR + empathy owns melee
VOR + worry owns casters

so basically mes > everything else in RA generally

cthulhu reborn · Sep 03, 2008, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Funny thread this.
VoR was a necessary skill upgrade for mesmers who always missed that extra bit of damage dealing potential, which has been a point of discussion pretty much since the game came out. Anet went with 10 classes and they do their best (for better or for worse) to make them all viable somehow.

In PvP, even in RA most monks tend to bring things like holy veil or cure hex, so if VoR owns RA then it's the players' fault really. I still remember being surprised when I started playing RA how many melee characters kept attacking furiously even with empathy or insidious parasite on them. Honestly if a skill like that owns RA, don't blame the skill.

The comparison to skills like SS is of course logical but there are more skills out there that have similar types of effect. Reversal of damage and vengeful weapon for example. Are you gonna complain about them being similar aswell?

Then for the off comment that blood magic sucks, well, that's just silly. I really don't think it needs explanation, so I will just assume that the person in question either simply doesn't like blood or doesn't get it.

Back on subject, there have been a few elite updates when VoR was updated and the truth is that it was much needed since some of these skills were underpowered for elites. So yeah this one has now become the flavour of the month but it certainly doesn't make mesmers invincible.

Laylat · Sep 03, 2008, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by nelifaroma

VOR is so overpowered in RA but then again, anet dont give a damn about RA. ironically its the most played pvp type match in gw.

VOR + empathy owns melee
VOR + worry owns casters

so basically mes > everything else in RA generally

You really have to watch the enemy mesmer in RA in order to remove VoR via Holy Veil or Cure Hex. However, I do feel a PvP/PvE split for this spell.

As far as SS & VoR comparison, they are two skills used by two different professions and have a different way of doing decent damage. Thinking one is better than the other is a matter of opinion and dependent on how often foes use skills vs attack. Get two heroes and equip one on each... Foes in go down really quick

Pwny Ride · Sep 03, 2008, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

Then for the off comment that blood magic sucks, well, that's just silly. I really don't think it needs explanation, so I will just assume that the person in question either simply doesn't like blood or doesn't get it.

Well it certainly never was a meta-breaking attribute. Unlike domination, which still and always has played a decent part in GvG. Havent seen Blood Magic making even a dent.

Malaise · Sep 03, 2008, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

Well it certainly never was a meta-breaking attribute. Unlike domination, which still and always has played a decent part in GvG. Havent seen Blood Magic making even a dent.

Voice of Reason would like to speak to you...if you count that as a dent.

Cebe · Sep 03, 2008, 06:37 AM // 06:37

VoR laughs in the face of Touch Necros and the like.

Touch-Bite-Touch-Bite-Tou...wtf?

cellardweller · Sep 03, 2008, 07:13 AM // 07:13

VoR triggers spirit bond whereas SS goes under it.

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

VoR triggers spirit bond whereas SS goes under it.

cuz we all know how many NPCs have SB

i like Visions of Regret better cause it hexes more than 1 target and does more damage and if you add in backfire on type of the damage its already doing its overpowered, but SS is better in heavy melee areas cause you can add in Reckless Haste.

Tyla · Sep 03, 2008, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessar

VoR + Empathy pretty much pwns in pvp. I love spiking stuff with it <3

You can't spike with VoR or Empathy.

In PvP, I'd go with VoR and in PvE, SS.

In PvE everything autoattacks, so SS wins out for me.

In PvP, VoR mixed with Wastrel's Worry gives them damage regardless of if they cast or not, and VoR chained with Backfire really screws casters.

uzumaki · Sep 03, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

No longer do i have to opt completely for an illusion build to have a counter vs narutards.

-_-... you don't need illusion to counter melee, i play dom with shield bash. With the after cast on shadow steps its easy to shield bash a sin chain and shield bashing warrior/dervs is even easier. Empathy (although i think it sux) can deter melees + non spell interrupts. Self heal works too.

GG!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

In PvP, I'd go with VoR and in PvE, SS.

In PvE everything autoattacks, so SS wins out for me.

QFT. + Necros have much better options than ss in pvp

Lord Sojar · Sep 03, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

VoR > SS, especially in PvP. SS is a minor annoyance, VoR is extremely dangerous.

upier · Sep 03, 2008, 08:54 AM // 08:54

In PvE - I'd go with Assassin's Promise. Possibly Discord on the necro if running a hero.

In PvP - Diversion.
Neither of the skills in question will stop me from doing what I should be doing - Diversion will.

Tender Care · Sep 03, 2008, 09:03 AM // 09:03

VoR in pvp= i'm not so dumb to use skills when i'm hexed with VoR, but at least i can attack
SS= can't do nothing if u don't wanna suicide and spam SS to the others.

Also: VoR deals much more dmg than SS but it's limited to using skills, SS deal dmg whatever u do.....
VoR in pvp is to be nerfed imo.

Avarre · Sep 03, 2008, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Diversion won't literally stop someone from doing something either (not many will, but sometimes if it's a potential kill, players will cast through). In both cases, the hexes present a major cost to the action of the target. In a hex team, where the objective is to pressure the opposing side into submission, making the opponents' character take additional damage to do their job is a large incentive to make them stop entirely, as the team is already under huge partywide pressure. Hence, it acts as a sort of encouraged shutdown, or can help deal additional damage if they work through it.

Different skills, both with a role.

upier · Sep 03, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Diversion won't literally stop someone from doing something either (not many will, but sometimes if it's a potential kill, players will cast through).

Of course - but with Diversion on me I'll only cast if I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY need to where as with VoR I'll just be more aware of what I activate - but most of the time I'll still be activating skills.

The big problem is, like you mentioned, that we are dealing with two elites that are not only part of an 8 skill build but also part of a 8 man, 64-skill build.
So considering that - it's the other 62 skills that will make a much bigger the difference then these two alone.

cthulhu reborn · Sep 03, 2008, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Care

VoR in pvp= i'm not so dumb to use skills when i'm hexed with VoR, but at least i can attack
SS= can't do nothing if u don't wanna suicide and spam SS to the others.

Also: VoR deals much more dmg than SS but it's limited to using skills, SS deal dmg whatever u do.....
VoR in pvp is to be nerfed imo.

uhhmm, in case you haven't noticed VoR specifically punishes spell casters. Yes, you can cane someone but a spell caster is build around using skills.
SS does damage but not enough to be a combo stopper...I've killed sins with VoR because they use a string of skills to do their killing stuff...he died before I did.
And in the end most damage comes from skills and not basic attacks...for most warriors or any melee really the combination of Empathy, VoR and some enchant kill really takes the angle out of them.

Take the over used shock warrior...Shock triggers VoR, conjure lightning is taken off by ench removal and basic attacks don't do as much damage as Empathy deals back. Because of fast casting the warrior is generally not fast enough to prevent the mesmer from doing this before he gets into the melee. The necro better use the non elite called insidious parasite for melee characters.

Also SS doesn't keep a monk from healing especially himself as he heals much more than taking damage....VoR does a lot more there. So all in all SS is much less dangerous. And if the enemy team is dumb enough to be so close together that SS does damage around the team than VoR is even better when applied to a monk under pressure trying to keep himself alive...now that's deadly.

legacyofkain85 · Sep 03, 2008, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Desicration

Elite Hex Spell. Also hexes foes adjacent to target (10 seconds). These foes take 15...75...90 damage whenever they use a skill.

Check the bold part. Use that on a group instead of SS and then you have multiple foes hexed all causing 90 damage to each other.

they dont compare each other ,use vor on a group of melee and use ss on a group of melee,vor will deal dmg to each foe individually while ss will deal Aoe dmg to all foes whenever the hexed foe Atacks or uses a Skill,unlike vor which triggers whenver foes use a skill,and another bonus feature of ss is that the more copyes of it u get in a mob the more dmg it does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

VoR affects ALL skills which is like a more universal version of blackfire.

And backfire is no joke =D

nope backfire is no joke id say its quite crap,there is a reason u dont see people in pvp use backfire,heck i dont even use it in pve ,and heroes with backfire and interupts on their bar fail

N1ghtstalker · Sep 03, 2008, 10:21 AM // 10:21

VoR is more for pvp and SS is for PvE

Productivity · Sep 03, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

In PVE on it's own, not taking into account the relative strength of domination and curses into account, VoR is better than SS if you don't suck at the game.

If you are good at Guild Wars, you will be steam rollering through mobs and the initial burst of damage you get out of monsters firing off all their skills is far more effective than the slow build up of damage that SS gives. The downtime doesn't matter because if you kill an enemy in 10s (which you should easily be doing), it doesn't matter if your SS lasts an additional 10s or not.

If you're bad at Guild Wars and measure the time it takes to kill a mob in minutes, then you should run SS. The increased uptime and trigger on anything nature of it means that it's a long run better performer once the monsters have stopped button mashing their spells because they are recharging and start wanding.

However, the above analysis doesn't take into account the relative strength of the lines in PVE, where curses is a far stronger line due to Barbs, Enfeebling Blood, Rip Enchant and Rend Enchantment. That's why I run a SS necro and not a VoR mesmer, but SS is a junk elite, it's just that there is nothing better to run.

cthulhu reborn · Sep 03, 2008, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by legacyofkain85

they dont compare each other ,use vor on a group of melee and use ss on a group of melee,vor will deal dmg to each foe individually while ss will deal Aoe dmg to all foes whenever the hexed foe Atacks or uses a Skill,unlike vor which triggers whenver foes use a skill,and another bonus feature of ss is that the more copyes of it u get in a mob the more dmg it does.

nope backfire is no joke id say its quite crap,there is a reason u dont see people in pvp use backfire,heck i dont even use it in pve ,and heroes with backfire and interupts on their bar fail

I see backfire being used in certain area's of pvp regularly, speficifally RA and AB. Perhaps not all area's of pvp do but you really need to be more specific on this. I see too many people talk about pvp and then you find out they only do GvG or AB or whichever part of it...pvp is more than just one part of it. You are of course right in saying interrupts and backfire are a useless combination.

SS does have that great effect on mobs, but I would think that decent pvp teams do not mob together. We can expect the monsters in pve to mob together but that's great for VoR aswell. (although when it comes to mobs my Ritu Splinter Barrager laughs at both SS and VoR)

You are correct in saying that SS and VoR are not the same but SS is really only effective against pve mobs and dumb pvp teams. In any other situation the damage is too low to be a direct danger and easily healed. VoR is better against spell casters but also great against sins and dervishes who do rely on skills like enchantments a lot. That and the amount of damage it does makes VoR better in my view.