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Old Jul 14, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24   #441
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Originally Posted by ReZDoGG
Leave the damn game be, it is fine. It is just a game! The game is supposed to be fun. If they wanted to make a game that was not enjoyable there would be no sense making a game in the first place. Stop cryin about making changes and enjoy the game. It is people like this that ruin the game and cause people to leave GW.

Personally, I am really tired of seeing people trying to come up with changes that will ruin the game. Anet has created the game, let them figure things out for themselves... If the game is fine in their own eyes, than the game is fine and they won't want to change something they already agreed on.
Your ignorance is astounding. I will address it, however.

This game is supposed to be fun, I'll agree. The game's not fun anymore; it's not challenging, it's a walk in the park. You spam your bar, the screen fills up with the numbers, and you collect your reward.

The game's not enjoyable anymore ReZDogg. The game sucks because balance is awry.

Most of the people leaving Guild Wars these days leave because this game is dead because they made it so damn easy. It was carebears such as yourself that clamored for easy mode to brush through HM so you could get some titles. That's what ruined the game, that's what made it unfun.

ANet doesn't know much about their game; they're busy making the sequel. When your game balancer says that the most broken attack skill in the game (Wounding Strike) is balanced and that he doesn't want to touch it, you know that your devs are quite out of touch with their own game.

Ontopic:

I seriously desire the removal of consumables. We decided for shits and giggles that we'd do slaver's NM. We blew through Thom/Rand in 9 minutes. I mean...
This is the elite dungeon - this is the top thing. This should provide some semblance of challenge. It took no skill whatsoever.

Consumables negate the purpose of HM by jacking characters up to their AI equivalent, which just then again RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs over game balance some more.

In addition to nerfing Ursan, the deletion or nerfing of consumables would make my day.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37   #442
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In addition to nerfing Ursan, the deletion or nerfing of consumables would make my day.
But somehow i feel making your day does not equal PvE Balance.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39   #443
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^
Ofcourse it doesn't.

We have alot of enemies to tone down and actually give them a half decent bar that they can handle.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43   #444
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Originally Posted by Lopezus
But somehow i feel making your day does not equal PvE Balance.
It's a step in the right direction.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58   #445
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Your ignorance is astounding. I will address it, however.
Nice way to start a post.

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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
This game is supposed to be fun, I'll agree. The game's not fun anymore; it's not challenging, it's a walk in the park.
You want a challenge go play pvp. PvE will never be that challenging.


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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
The game's not enjoyable anymore ReZDogg. The game sucks because balance is awry.
All opinion and limited to you alone, I still enjoy the game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Most of the people leaving Guild Wars these days leave because this game is dead because they made it so damn easy.
Great, can I see your source on why most people have stopped playing the game? I was thinking it was lack of new content for over a year that was killing the game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
ANet doesn't know much about their game; they're busy making the sequel. When your game balancer says that the most broken attack skill in the game (Wounding Strike) is balanced and that he doesn't want to touch it, you know that your devs are quite out of touch with their own game.
Some would argue that the most broken attack skill in the game is Ursan Blessing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
I seriously desire the removal of consumables.
Why, how does someone using consets in an instance game affect your game?




Stop being an elitist and if pve has stopped offering any challenge go play pvp.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05   #446
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Originally Posted by R.Shayne
You want a challenge go play pvp. PvE will never be that challenging.
If you've seen the state of PvP now you wouldn't want to be constantly PvP'ing. That and the fact you can't have people ready for a teamup everytime and everytime.

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Great, can I see your source on why most people have stopped playing the game? I was thinking it was lack of new content for over a year that was killing the game.
When people like Ensign quit the game, something is wrong. Alot of high level players quit the game because of the junk that has been going on.

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Some would argue that the most broken attack skill in the game is Ursan Blessing.
Ursan Blessing isn't really an attack skill though.

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Why, how does someone using consets in an instance game affect your game?
Not taking advantage of things and gimping yourself is awesome amirite?
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 06:13 PM // 18:13   #447
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Most of the people leaving Guild Wars these days leave because this game is dead because they made it so damn easy. It was carebears such as yourself that clamored for easy mode to brush through HM so you could get some titles. That's what ruined the game, that's what made it unfun.
So - after you complete something 10 times (the same freaking way) how will it pose a challenge then?
Pretty much the only thing that can pose a challenge in PvE is new content - everything else is just re-doing the same thing knowing which gimmick to use.

People leave GW because there is nothing else to do.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17   #448
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Originally Posted by upier
So - after you complete something 10 times (the same freaking way) how will it pose a challenge then?
Pretty much the only thing that can pose a challenge in PvE is new content - everything else is just re-doing the same thing knowing which gimmick to use.
You're ignoring how easy it is -

If it were balanced (challenging, but not overly so) then it'd be interesting.

I'll stop derailing this thread though
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29   #449
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Most of the people leaving Guild Wars these days leave because this game is dead because they made it so damn easy. It was carebears such as yourself that clamored for easy mode to brush through HM so you could get some titles. That's what ruined the game, that's what made it unfun.
This I wholeheartedly agree with. My guild leader and a large portion of my guild Ursan'd their way through a majority of the game, and ran out of things to do because everything became so easy. My guild leader, who has been playing since launch, had 6 maxed titles before EOTN came out, and in less than a year he now has almost 20. He was already a very good player, and with Ursan he tore through the game. He became inactive because nothing in PvE was interesting anymore.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42   #450
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Originally Posted by Tyla
If you've seen the state of PvP now you wouldn't want to be constantly PvP'ing. That and the fact you can't have people ready for a teamup everytime and everytime.

I did my pvp thing when I was younger, doesn't really appeal to me anymore so I do not look at this game from a pvp perspective.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
When people like Ensign quit the game, something is wrong. Alot of high level players quit the game because of the junk that has been going on.
I have never heard of the guy, sorry. I wouldn't be worried about one top player leaving, doesn't hurt revenue that much. I would be more worried about the number of casual players leaving and in my opinion that is directly related to no new content.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Ursan Blessing isn't really an attack skill though.
I will have to give you that one. I don't think Wounding Strike is causing that much of a problem in PvE so if they want to nerf it into another useless elite in pvp sounds fine to me.


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Originally Posted by Tyla
Not taking advantage of things and gimping yourself is awesome amirite?
Yet I do it all the time by playing the way I want to play. I am not going to lie, I like consets for one reason, 7k. I don’t need them to finish the game and consets are quick gold. If other players need them to finish the game or to make the game go quicker that is fine with me. Someone using it in their instance does not affect anyone else, unless they bought the consets.
Last edited by R.Shayne; Jul 15, 2008 at 02:39 PM // 14:39..
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43   #451
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If I don’t like .75 seconds there is no way I am going to like 1 second. I do wish that the duration of the shadow step could be adjusted in Shadow Fang using the Deadly Arts attribute. I really don’t need 10 seconds and once the primary target is gone, unless a secondary target is next to me, I am usually swarmed and unable to get to the secondary target, thus all I am doing is wasting my Hero monks heals. I do use Critical Agility but I also like to add Drunken Master for the increased attack speed and to chase down targets.
[Shove]. Also you can auto attack.




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This kind of has me looking forward to the update. Who uses these skills most of the time? The answer is the AI, not only does it buff it for the player it also buffs it for the AI. ANET just has to walk a fine line to determine where to stop on buffs and nerfs (since I have no faith in Izzy or his top guilds to buff or nerf anything this could be bad thing too, great so much for the good part).
They are underused because they were nerfed in PvP because they were overpowered. Ether Renewal was nerfed for a good reason...spamming prots with endless energy just isn't balanced. Shadow Form was nerfed for a good reason...being invincible all the time just isn't balanced.

The rest of the elites are the same way, and if their track record on this is anything, they aren't just going to "lightly" buff them.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54   #452
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
You're ignoring how easy it is -

If it were balanced (challenging, but not overly so) then it'd be interesting.

I'll stop derailing this thread though
But you've played this game for 3 years.
With the fact that the AI isn't getting improved - the only thing that might pose a challenge is a new gimmick. And you've seen all the gimmicks already - of course it's going to be easy!
(I didn't run Ursan though GWEN - and the only time I came to a halt was at the MAW-dude. Considering he trashed us - you could say he posed a challenge.
On my second run I flagged the hench at the start - had the necro keep me under PS and I kept spamming Vengeful Weapon on myself.
Down he went!)



I PvE because I feel like an elephant in a coffin when PvPing. That place is so small! And nothing pretty to see!
If I wanted to be challenged - I'd PvP.
But I have other priorities.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01   #453
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One thing I really didn't like was the seperation of PvP and PvE. Not only did having them linked make the game much more accessable on all fronts(as opposed to relearning the game just to play a different mode), but also dumbed down the difficulty on a huge level. All the PvE exclusive skills are simply overpowered. I remember the good old days, when PvE could essentially be considered PvP bootcamp(to a limited extent, of course), when difficulty was actually a factor. I remember trudging my way through the hellish realm of torment, being eaten alive when you made one wrong move at times(and let's not forget Shiro and Lich). When I started up EotN a week ago, I have yet to recieve any of that(in normal mode), it's like they made normal the new hard mode, and dumbed down everything for 'normal' mode.

I make it a point not to use Ursan or Imbagon (or PvE skills in general) in any of my builds, simply because they're not fun to play. It's amusing for 10 minutes, as you watch everything fall down dead, but you quickly come to the realization that skills like that cause the game to degenerate into a 123123123 hotkey fest. And that is not the Guild Wars I remember. Of course, my not using PvE skills is also a reason why I solo the game now, because I can't expect anyone to not bitch and whine when they find out that spamming hotkeys all day is not my cup of tea.

So now, when a new player is done their PvE campaigns, and decide to try a bit of PvP, how do they get along without their precious Ursan or Imbagon?
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37   #454
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Originally Posted by Abnaxus
Ursan Blessing is a solution that puts every class on the same level, and probably is the only one possible without a total re-design of the whole game.
Yeah that I can agree with but you'd have to agree that doesn't make it right and such a solution will obviously garner criticism from any MMORPG community from all areas.

The obvious problem is that, as mentioned by others on numerous occasions, it has really made a joke of the whole game PvE wise and to be honest I don't view it as a small minority of "elitists" QQing as opposed to fans of this game voicing concern with the quality of GW as a result of UB.

Grind a title, get a PvE skill, mash 3 buttons.

That's GW high-end.

Wether open access to all and an end to class discrimination is worth it is up to the individual I guess.

I say no though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Shayne
You want a challenge go play pvp. PvE will never be that challenging.

-snip-

Stop being an elitist and if pve has stopped offering any challenge go play pvp.
UB has made PvE a cakewalk and that's your solution?

Such a /fail rebuttal.

It's as bad as the "It's only an option so it's ok!!!" posts.Your solution is to completely ignore the issue others here are wishing to discuss/debate.

At least try to be constructive.
Last edited by fireflyry; Jul 14, 2008 at 10:04 PM // 22:04..
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10   #455
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
nop no options there at all. Yeah they are heals (all cept fomf) but you'd have to be pretty dumb if you don't consider those options and consider them all the same. They all have a different utility and all are used rather differently. (unless if you're bad and just spam shit when red bars go down without thinking about it)
The bolded part is what I'm refering to....that is exactly what heroes are. They don't think about it, they just use a random heal, which is why the N/Rt in Sabway works so well. They CAN'T make a bad choice. I agree that there is obvious utility for a human player, but that wasn't what I was refering to. I know you are microing your heroes, but most people aren't, especially the noobcakes. Which is really what the conversation is about: changing N/Rt so it isn't so damn effective on a hero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Yes, you can very well say that oh well you're just down 2 heals with various utilities, but you're missing the point. Those 2 heals are heals that are going to keep the party alive or provide various other functions, which all keep pressure off of the HB/LoD Monks, which last time I checked don't use skills or have an attribute which give them the equivalent of 40+ pips of e-regen.
Why would you run a Monk at all? Let alone Monks. Run 2 N/Rt (or E/Rt...) That's exactly the point of the thread. N/Rt is hyper-effective on a hero, you don't need a monk anymore. If you are talking about the Prot line, run N/Mo (or E/Mo...)

The question is: What to do about it?

Nerfing SR (and ER) doesn't really address the problem of hyper-effective Ritualist secondaries. It possibly DOES address dropping one N/Rt for a Monk running Prot, so maybe there's an argument there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
No primary should outdo a skill in similar function (or in the case of Soul Reaping, 108 skills
I disagree, ALL primaries should exceed any elite skill in performance, or provide a functionality that cannot be duplicated with spells. However, this is a matter of opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
They make a difference on your Monks.
You keep mentioning Monks. They are pretty much irrelevant with the current state of X/Rt, aside from Prot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
E/Rt has weaknesses that N/Rt doesn't.
Go on...finish the evaluation. Having energy frontloaded is better than backloading it. Run into a tough mob/boss and the N/Rt can collapse. You're specifically banking on your offense winning before the N/Rt runs dry. E/Rt CANNOT, EVER run dry. Even against e-denial. Granted that's rare in PvE, but I've tested that too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
N/Rt has 2 extra slots, gains energy when things die, and gains more energy passively than a Me/Rt will from both energy skills on recharge (assuming an enemy uses 2 skills on recharge too) combined. I'd say the N/Rt is way way stronger than the Me/Rt.
Me/Rt is a mockery build. The energy requirements of the X/Rt builds are so low that you can run it on the worst primary in the game with Mesmer interrupts. You don't need SR/ER.

If you want to address the overuse of Sabway, you MUST address the effectiveness of Ritualist secondary builds. Which means nerfing Restoration. I'd like it to be nerfed in a way that keep it very effective for Rit primaries, but somehow makes it less effective on a secondary.

Hammering SR does not address this. The Me/Rt shows that. Does Soul Reaping help or make the N/Rt stronger. Of course. But even knocking it to zero isn't enough to solve the problem. And since reducing it to zero isn't a realistic option...SR will still generate enough energy to drive N/Rt all day long, even in a reduced form.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
I wouldn't nerf Soul Reaping without nerfing Ether Renewal.... They are both bad and both need to be fixed.
I agree you'd have to hit both at he same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Heroes actually won't use heals until they are needed and rarely spam shit. In most cases they won't use a heal unless if it brings you to as close to 100% as it possible can. ... They just don't understand the concept of holding out, and try to mop all damage always, but they rarely RANDOMLY SPAM stuff on you.
This goes to the point above. Granted it's not truly random, but let's agree that they make suboptimal decisions. That's why 8 heals on the bar works for heros. They can't mess it up. A human obviously would makes better choices, and the utility would shine in this case. It doesn't shine on heroes, which is why you can lose a slot or two and still have an effective hero bar.

Don't take that out of context...they seem to run the mesmer interrupts and ER very well. I wouldn't stick something else on the bar an expect them to run it though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
This thread is moot anyways, since Anet won't actually balance PvE by the definition of balance, I'm just humoring them.
Talking bets on weather they make ANY changes to SR? I bet they leave it as is, sadly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Apt point, but both only interrupt spells,
Negative. Leech Sig interrupts anything. It only gets energy if it interrupts a spell...which is the real reason it's there, granted. But the interrupt affects everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
I'd hit Restoration a bit too fyi
It just needs to be tuned down for Rit secondaries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Necromancer builds that are balanced don't really rely on Soul Reaping.
Agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
MM's would be hit the worst if anything
Agree. The minion animates would all have to be lowered. The problem is that there is only one possible tier to drop them to:

Bone Fiends - 15e
Vamp/Shambling Horrors - 10e
Everything else - 5e

This constrains changes to SR. You can't really drop the minions spells any more than this without causing problems at the lower end. And therefore, you're limited in the degree to which you can reduce SR, without major changes or wonky exceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
, but for Soul Reaping I'd like it to be this: "For every 3 (maybe 2. MAYBE.) ranks in Soul Reaping you gain 1 energy whenever a creature dies." in PvE only
As far as reduction strategies go, that's exactly what I was thinking. You could immediately cut SR in half and half the minions costs and break nothing.

You could reduce to one-third but then you have to do two additional changes to keep MMs viable:

1) Lose the timer
2) Keep minion triggers for the MM (JUST for the controlling MM - the 'sharing' effect is obviously Imba and really needs to be removed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
At 15 (i know right?) you're getting 5 energy. Most of the time you'll be getting 4 if you run a dual attribute build. This isn't enough to make stuff free, and it is less overpowering compared to other e-management skills (though better than most, I'm sure.) It also removes the clock and such, so this wouldn't hit MM's as hard with a change like this because they are getting minion powered if needed.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
A lot of people want the clock removed and for it to affect everything equally and to be 1 per rank.
I want the clock remove for reasons other than raw energy. I want the flow to be predictable so a human MM can actually play tactically, rather than wondering if casting spell X is going to crunch the blue bar unexpectedly.

I've NEVER said SR wasn't hugely powerful. I do however question weather even knocking it down to 1/3 is going to affect ANYTHING in PvE. The N/Rt will still blow doors down with that degree of SR, and there isn't anything else abusing SR.

I get the feeling that people think nerfing SR will fix everything in PvE and Roses will bloom. Despite it's effect, it really isn't causing any actual problems. If you're going to nerf it, it's purely on principle. THAT'S why I'd prefer to leave it until it causes a specific over-energy issue. (N/Rt doesn't count, it's requirements are too low for ANY nerf of SR to be effective)

I agree on principle that SR is crazy strong, but it's a pointless change if it won't have any actual effect on PvE (which it won't)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Which makes me lol pretty hard. Then again some people want the minion limit removed so...
Again, not me.

-------------

FYI: I spoke with Ensign yesterday about this very issue, and his response was (and I quote): "The only thing broken about SR in PvE is the sharing effect."
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 10:21 PM // 22:21   #456
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Originally Posted by upier
So - after you complete something 10 times (the same freaking way) how will it pose a challenge then?
Pretty much the only thing that can pose a challenge in PvE is new content - everything else is just re-doing the same thing knowing which gimmick to use.
The problem is it doesn't even pose a challenge the first time anymore. I know relatively new players FARMING elite areas nowadays.

I also hate the idea that PvE has never been challenging and that PvP is supposedly "the place to go if you want a challenge". Thats a load of garbage, especially for people who actually want challenge in their games instead of mindless grinding. I remember when Thunderhead Keep Bonus was hard as crap...10x harder than anything today. The reason its easy today is not because Thunderhead Keep got easier or because the players got significantly better, but because of the arrival of serious power creep and inbalances of things such as Ursan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by upier
People leave GW because there is nothing else to do.
People need to start looking at Guild Wars in a different way. Look at it from Anets point of view...I honestly believe they don't feel a thing if people leave the game. Every single player can leave now and Anet would not lose a penny. Guild Wars was meant to be a normal video game with PvP until the next purchase arrives...it sells once and the company gets profit.

This style of marketing plan is really starting to show in the downgraded quality of their game. Since there is no monthly fee, there is no consequences when they make horrible changes to their game (like they have done over and over for the past 2 years). All Anet needs to do is make sure the players buy the next game (Guild Wars 2). How do they do that? HoM is one major incentive! How can we be sure people will use the HoM? Giving them overpowered methods to fill it is a way!

Ursan Blessing might as well read: "Target player using this skill has their probability of buying Guild Wars 2 raised from 50% to 90%. This skill also reduces some other players probability of buying Guild Wars 2 from 90% to 50%, but those players are less so who cares. This skill cannot be nerfed because balance does not matter in our marketing plan".
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29   #457
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Why would you run a Monk at all? Let alone Monks.
Monks are Prot/Heal.
Ritualists are Damage/heal.

Monks are more effective at Protting.
Ritualists are more effective at Healing.

Quote:
You keep mentioning Monks. They are pretty much irrelevant with the current state of X/Rt, aside from Prot.
Miraculously, I am talking in an 8 player setting, which you sorta have to talk in if you're going to talk about balancing. N/Rt is superior at keeping your allied Monks energy bars up.

Quote:
Go on...finish the evaluation. Having energy frontloaded is better than backloading it. Run into a tough mob/boss and the N/Rt can collapse. You're specifically banking on your offense winning before the N/Rt runs dry. E/Rt CANNOT, EVER run dry. Even against e-denial. Granted that's rare in PvE, but I've tested that too.
Enchant removal says hai.

EDIT: Tho obviously this depends on what you're fightin in PvE since for some reasons mobs are easy and a ton of them don't have any lololo. Or any good ones.

Quote:
Me/Rt is a mockery build. The energy requirements of the X/Rt builds are so low that you can run it on the worst primary in the game with Mesmer interrupts. You don't need SR/ER.
You do if you want the best healing options.

Quote:
Talking bets on weather they make ANY changes to SR? I bet they leave it as is, sadly.
I bet they remove the timer, let it effect everthing, and knowing their PvE history so far probably make it 2 energy per rank.

Quote:
Negative. Leech Sig interrupts anything. It only gets energy if it interrupts a spell...which is the real reason it's there, granted. But the interrupt affects everything.
Heroes only use it to interrupt spells.

Quote:
Again, not me.
Wasn't talking about you, was talking about someone else who shall remain nameless.

Quote:
FYI: I spoke with Ensign yesterday about this very issue, and his response was (and I quote): "The only thing broken about SR in PvE is the sharing effect."
Ensign is a great guy and all, and he's usually right, but he isn't perfect, and I think since he obviously quit a while ago, he's a bit out of touch with stuff. Not saying i'm any better here, but if you don't think having near infinite energy is imbalanced then I dunno what to tell ya. ;p Imbalances in PvE don't matter as much, but that doesn't mean they aren't imbalances.
Last edited by DarkNecrid; Jul 14, 2008 at 10:33 PM // 22:33..
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Old Jul 15, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49   #458
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It's always surprising how long people can continually argue in the same circle and never break stride.

Before I note a few specific rebuttals I wanted to make, I really must take a moment to thank everyone who has so far flamed this thread as a big, elitist nerf qq. I get a very good laugh everytime I come across one of those posts in this thread, because anyone who would say such a thing obviously did not bother to read the first half of my PvE balancing suggestions; trust me, the same people were calling me a joker for my "ridiculous buffing" over there. In all honestly, my intention with posting here was to communicate with ANet; your illogical argumentation and poorly thought out fallacies are as insignificant to me as the wake of a speedboat brushing against a destroyer.

Now that that has been said, I also wanted to state that the concept of Monk's advantage over Rits being Protection Prayers is quite wrong. Weapon spells are Ritualist's version of prot, and they're better because they can't be removed. I was tempted to put that in all caps, but for now I'll leave cruise control off.

Yes, Monk's are better at quick, active prot... but this is not a necessary part of a build already consisting of a good deal of passive defense (party wide evasion, party wide armor buffs) combined with active healing; with Weapon of Remedy on the bar, you've got condition popping on top of Reversal of Fortune. Find me a good Monk from Guild Wars who doesn't think that Reversal of Fortune is one of the best skills in the game, and I'll stop thinking Weapon of Remedy is a cornerstone Ritualist prot.

I appreciate the laughs, and you could maybe try to argue about WoR, but a simple glance at a few of the game's better available Weapon Spells solidifies my argument. Come on now guys... Weapon of Warding isn't a prot? Lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Shayne
Stop being an elitist and if pve has stopped offering any challenge go play pvp.
I feel like squashing this argument.

In a disagreement, if you feel that the other party's argument is automatically invalidated by your entitlement to a certain privledge or power, it is YOU who have become the elitists.

Also, to be horribly blunt: No. I have played an extensive amount of PvP, and it is now so abysmally imbalanced that there is no fun left in even attempting to discover success. How much exactly would you appreciate it if the tables were turned, hmm? PvE were much more difficult, and you post here on guru trying to alert others to the issue; the majority reply to you with something along the lines of "Stop whining and if PvE is too hard for you go play Random Arenas" ?

This is simply not a valid argument.


Finally, I just want to add that this is a game with an update system built right into the core design of the whole thing. Please do not whine at me if you do not appreciate the idea of your favorite skills being changed; this is simply a FACT of life for every player of Guild Wars, and it has been since the beginning.
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Old Jul 15, 2008, 04:56 AM // 04:56   #459
Wilds Pathfinder
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
I feel like squashing this argument.
Don't think many get it, the argument is that someone using an elite skill in an instance game such as Guild War does not affect someone else style of play. So how does something like Ursan Blessing affect me since I don't use ursan blessings? Someone please provide one example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
In a disagreement, if you feel that the other party's argument is automatically invalidated by your entitlement to a certain privledge or power, it is YOU who have become the elitists.
When a hardcore player (or elitist) tries to force a game change to increase difficulty based only on their perspective that may become a problem. The casual customer probably doesn’t even realize when a skill is buffed or nerfed but since a large number of these players use Ursan Blessing to grind titles a nerf or buff might be noticed by a large customer base. I like GW I also like what ANET has started, I don't want to see them change a game for a few elitist that may cause them to loose customers. Since GW is an instances game one customer running a build that they like does not affect another customer's game. (news flash, if you are posting on a forum you are no longer a casual player thus you and I are?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
PvE were much more difficult, and you post here on guru trying to alert others to the issue; the majority reply to you with something along the lines of "Stop whining and if PvE is too hard for you go play Random Arenas" ?
If I fail at PvE then I am not the targeted customers, difficulty is base on the target customer. Kind of likes specs on a computer, do you target the extreme high-end computer (thus limiting the number of customers) or do you target the mid range computer (still limiting the number of customer but offering a quality that appeals to gamers)? If PvE balance is changed to satisfy less then 1% of the customers what happens to the other 99% of the customers? ANET has decide how hard or how easy to make the game based on the targeted customer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
This is simply not a valid argument.
Simply stating that it is not a valid argument, sound like I read that some where before. It is a service industry, if you wish to continue playing any MMO consider other customers (especially less skilled customer that make up the majority of the customers) before changing something that may affect their satisfaction. If the only people that bought this game was the elite players ANET would have went bankrupt a long time ago. Next time try, "If PvP is too easy so go play PvE." would be a better counter to the arugment since the argument concerns elitist feeling the game is to easy and wanting it changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Finally, I just want to add that this is a game with an update system built right into the core design of the whole thing. Please do not whine at me if you do not appreciate the idea of your favorite skills being changed; this is simply a FACT of life for every player of Guild Wars, and it has been since the beginning.
My favorite skill is [spell breaker] or [protective spirit] well I like [Flail] too and [spiteful spirit] of course [volley] or [apply poison], really I don't think I have a favorite. And what if ANET changes a skill, same thing I been doing for 3+ years, change my builds (something I enjoy) and just roll with it.
Last edited by R.Shayne; Jul 15, 2008 at 04:58 AM // 04:58..
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Old Jul 15, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57   #460
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SR probably won't ever be touched again.

Before all the nerfs to Spirits and SR itself, it was a huge problem.....back when it triggered off all spirits, etc. All these arguments claiming it's overpowered in PvE are silly. I'd like to see a real reason why it should be considered overpowered In PvE.

The N/Rt's from Spiritway are the most obvious form of "abusing" SR but really, it's not overpowered. Untill you realize that what's overpowered in PvP isn't always overpowered in PvE, you're not gonna get anywhere. N/Rt's with infinite energy in PvP means there's no point in trying to pressure the healers, something that's bad for PvP cause it kills pressure builds. That changes the game in a negative way. N/Rt's with infinite energy in PvE are a different thing. In PvE, you have tons of opportunities to regain energy. Whether you're just jumping to the next mob or decide to make a temporary retreat, a primary monk will almost always have a full energy bar when you get to the next group. You don't get opportunities like that in PvP, and if your tries retreating you just might end up eating a crapload of snares.

N/Rt's are still used in Sway teams, but they're not really a problem.

Ursan is the only major problem In PvE. It created the first true "x Way" build in PvE. It made Norn title equivalant to HA's Hero title, except that an r10 Ursan is often more stupid than an r1 Hero. Now if Ursan dies, all it's fans will go back to complaining that pug's are only running accepting Tanks/Fire Ele's/Monks. That right there is also a bit of a problem in a weird way. Part of it is something you can't fix though: ignorant players.....the ones that think Warriors are only good at tanking and that Fire ele's are the best source of damage. The "tutortial" start areas of each chapter are really bad at teaching new players the basics of creating and using effective builds. I still find it surprising that there's not a single example of a good build for each class found ingame. Not everyone will visit forums or PvXwiki. Other things to blame are "elite" areas with retarded designs....yes I'm talking about DoA. Gotta love how one inexperienced player can make the entire team's hours go to waste just because they triggered something they didn't know about and spawned a ridiculously huge mob that makes you go "shit shit, screw tactics....fire missiles!"

Besides stuff like Ursan and "SY", It's pretty hard to figure out what should be considered a problem in PvE. There's no clear focus of what the Devs want it to be. It's not like PvP where there's a clear line there telling you what's just fine or what's going overboard and creating problems.
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