Curse

mrbilzor · Jun 27, 2008, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Tears, I -surprisingly enough- disagree.

If a Warrior can either go Berserk or Samurai or Legionnaire (your examples), aren't you, in fact, making a complete line of skills that only one section of players will use? Isn't that, right there, four sets of skills and attributes? One 'core profession' in your system would have almost half the skills that exist now. Times ten.

If not skills, then how will a Warrior/Berserk differ from a Warrior/Samurai? By looks? You seem to have a massive problem with appearances in GW, which, by the way, it not the point of the GAME.

Having an Asian themed character come out of an Asian themed chapter seems perfectly fine to me. A little odd, sure (what no one moved to another country in GW land?), but understandable.

It still comes down to 2 things, either nothing is different between your 'CTS' except what you look like (which seems to be your major damage with GW), or each class combo has its own skillset to draw from, which is why your idea will never work.

If 10 core professions can even just choose between one split, that makes thirty (10 and 20) professions that have to have skills, attributes, armor, etc. tied to them. If that splits again the number grows exponentially (10 and 20 and 40).

This all has the bad taste of Seiken Densetsu 3 or KOTOR or Final Fantasy Tactics. Evolving classes is nice when you have a crew of toons to play with, but you always just end up doing whatever base needs to be done in order to make that 'prestige' class anyways.

No one played as a Knight in FFT, everyone jumped to Monk and punched people in the face.

Kyomi Tachibana · Jun 27, 2008, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Seeing as this has turned into a "What kind of profession system will there be in GW2?" from "Which profession is getting the chop?" thread, I'll say that honestly I'd love to see a profession system like SWG originally had, where you choose a starting profession, but can train in whatever you like.
For example:
-Character Creation: I decide to make a Brawler.
- I train and level up my Brawler skills, and decide to focus on the Teras Kasi tree.
- I get bored with TK, and talk to a Marksman trainer to reduce my skill level in the TK tree in exchange for teaching me the basic Marksman profession.
-I train in Marksman and decide to focus on Rifles, but find myself dieing too much when I aggro stuff, so I go talk to the Medic trainer and learn how to make myself medicine.
- The combination of Marksmanship and Medic I chose happens to earn me the title of Combat Medic!
- I don't heal/buff as well as a Doctor, or pure Medic, nor can I fight as well as a pure Rifle user, but I can sustain myself very well.

Iirc, there were a limit of 800 points, and each profession had 4 tiers, and 3 or 4 levels of each tier, and each 'level' needed a certain amount of points for example:

Rifles IV - 50 points

Rifles III - 50 points

Rifles II - 50 points

Rifles I - 50 points

Basic Marksmanship - 100 points

Of course it's been aaaaaaaages since I've played SWG, so I may be off on how it works a tad, I know the system is different now and sucks, but if you used to play SWG you'll know what I'm taking about.

tyrant rex · Jun 27, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

hope sins get chopped shadow stepping dose not belong

gremlin · Jun 27, 2008, 07:17 AM // 07:17

I agree with Phoenix Tears who commented that races would probably not limit profession.
"Strength" has never played a part in the game in the way it excists in the tabletop rpgs.

Its pretty obvious that a Norn should be far and away stronger than all the other races, except maybe the Charr.
And a Norn with a 2 handed hammer would pretty well treat an assuran character as a golf ball.
I don't see it happening, they could put in race specific skills but they would have to be carefully done.

There was another comment about the limited "look" the characters in gw have and I couldn't agree more.
I for one am pretty bored of the Boy/Girl band look there is such a thing as the old grizzled veteran warrior covered in scars.
Not to mention the ancient wizard with the bald head and long beard.

While I am on it can we lose the calvin Klein underwear, I know we don't want loads of nudity in the game but something a little more original please.

Phoenix Tears · Jun 27, 2008, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbilzor

Tears, I -surprisingly enough- disagree.

(1)If a Warrior can either go Berserk or Samurai or Legionnaire (your examples), aren't you, in fact, making a complete line of skills that only one section of players will use? Isn't that, right there, four sets of skills and attributes? One 'core profession' in your system would have almost half the skills that exist now. Times ten.

(2)If not skills, then how will a Warrior/Berserk differ from a Warrior/Samurai? By looks? You seem to have a massive problem with appearances in GW, which, by the way, it not the point of the GAME.

(3)Having an Asian themed character come out of an Asian themed chapter seems perfectly fine to me. A little odd, sure (what no one moved to another country in GW land?), but understandable.

(4)It still comes down to 2 things, either nothing is different between your 'CTS' except what you look like (which seems to be your major damage with GW), or each class combo has its own skillset to draw from, which is why your idea will never work.

(5)If 10 core professions can even just choose between one split, that makes thirty (10 and 20) professions that have to have skills, attributes, armor, etc. tied to them. If that splits again the number grows exponentially (10 and 20 and 40).

This all has the bad taste of Seiken Densetsu 3 or KOTOR or Final Fantasy Tactics. Evolving classes is nice when you have a crew of toons to play with, but you always just end up doing whatever base needs to be done in order to make that 'prestige' class anyways.

No one played as a Knight in FFT, everyone jumped to Monk and punched people in the face.

(1): Isn' this in the end exactly the same, we have yet in GW1, just only with the difference, that in regard of which primary and which secondary you've chosen get certain attributes, with Skills, that you can use only, when you have chosen a certain Primary/Secondary-Combination ? When you look at it detailed, then you must admit I'm sure about it, that it IS exactly the same.

GW1 compared to my CTS Concept makes only the difference, that you choose in GW1 "Primary Class/Secondary Class". In my CTS Concept, you choose "Primary Core Class/Secondary Career of your Primary Class"

So all that my CTS does, is making this 2 Class System from GW1 more specialized and concentrated onto the Primary CLass and this way such dumb Combinations, like Wammos will be abandoned, because a Wammo is nochting else, like a Wannabe-Paladin in GW1. Wirth my CTS you would be able to create a real paladin, that looks, moves and acts like a Paladin and would also have then attributes and Skills, that you would expect from a Paladin Class.

With my CTS you would be then not a W/Mo, you would be then in the end, once you reched the final career tier a K/Pa, which stands direct for Knight/Paladin and you wound have not such stupid Attributes then like:

Strength
Tactics
Sword Mastery
Axe Mastery
Hammer Mastery
Healing Prayers
Protection Prayers
Smiting Prayers

your Attributes in my CTS Concept for going this way with a Character would then look more like this

- Loyality (P)
- Honour
- Courage
- Weapon Mastery (includes all Kinds of 1H Weapons)
*The 3 Core Attributes of the Warriors/Knights + the Primary Att for Knights
--------------------------
- Faith
- Shield Mastery
- Divine Prayers
*The attributes added from Career Tier 2: Crusader
--------------------------
- Aura of the Believers
- Spell Seal
- Guardian of Light
*Final Attributes added from Career Tier 3: Paladin

Umh, looks quite very much differen huh, am I right ? and what do you think represents now from both of this much better a Paladin ?
the retarded GW1 Wammo, or my Concept of the CTS-Version ?
****
****

(2): See (1): It will be the Attributes, in regard of which Career Path you've chosen, your Character will receive over time different new Attributes, some will cross over maybe, but others will be just unique for a certain Career Path like for example, that the Way of the Samurai will have the unique Attribute Line for dual wielding Swords for example and the Samurai will be the only profession, that will be able to use all kinds of Katana-Swords, because the Katana is a special Sword Type of the Samurai. Thats like, how Ninjas would be the only Class, that is able to use Shurikens and Kunais, because these are special Ninja Weapons. Then as said it would be the Looks. As experienced Samurai a player would be able to wear special Samurai Armor Sets, that a Warrior could not wear, but the defense power for maximum between both would be exactly the SAME. So this way stays the Armor System of GW1 in GW2, not advertising players with just more time to play. This means an undecided Warrior Player which has not yet chosen a Career Path for his/her character can have for the Character Warrior Armor, that is the same AL, as a Player, which has chosen to become a Samurai and gets through that able to wear Samurai Armor Sets, that are special for that Career, but those ones won't have more Defense Power, than the maximum AL that a simple Warrior Armor can/will have. In the ENd the differences will be then just the Looks and thats good so, but it will give the game more individuality and a little motivation to decide yourself for a certain Career Path, when certain Armor Sets can be only worn by special Career Paths of a Profession.

Your appearance in the Game is one point of the game, nothign is worser in a Game, as when you can find every x Steps in your near an other Player with an exact clone character of your own one. Games with a tiny grade of individuality for players are bad, especially when it are MMO's which get played by millions of players. MMO's are the only Genre, where individuality plays a kind of important role to People. Nobody wants to be like x thousand other players, thats the reason, why it gives such expensive stuff, like the FoW Armor and other expensive stuff for vanity ect. pp. so that people will have something, with that they can become a bit more individual over the million other players. The Grade of Individuality in GW1 just sux, because its simple too low - the Game offers the player not enough thigns, to become individual enough. GW1 has way too much Limitations everywhere where you look at the game.
****
****

(3): yet again, see above. Sure its nice, when Characters of an asian cultured Campaign do all look asianic *god, if that was now right written lol* XD
But thats not a reason to force all players to be just only able to create asian looking characters in Factions. To let us not be able to create characters in ANY campaign so, how WE WANT to let them look, is just incredible retarded³.
----
Thats like, as if your Mother would forbid you to eat your Food (Rice for example) with a spoon and pushes into your hands ever again only a fork, even when you could eat your rice with BOTH total easily without problems.
This patronage of Anet just sucks !!! We are the players and when i want to create a Character in Cantha, that should have a Tyrian face and an ELonian Hair Style, if I own all 3 Campaigns, then god the hell Anet should LET ME DO IT. Who the **** cares about, if i play now a Canthan character, that has a tyrian Face Style and a Elonian Hair Style, when all my characters get n the end so or so a european looking Skin Color. No stupid idiot cares about that, what others create for Characters, so I musk ask me, why the **** takes it Anet so long, to enable us finally to give us the option, to be able to use in a character creation all Face and Hair Styöles of the Campaigns, that we own huh ? they could have done that little but very important direct, once factions got releade and brought to the game new Styles, but anet never didn#t smethign until today.. and why ?
Because that juice shop got extreme LAZY over the years

They take only care of some stupid meta skills and tiny Bugs, which can all wait, but such tiny, but fine gameplay improvements, that does anet never see >.>
There we must QQ here in forums first ever for months, before there eventually exists the chance, that lazyNet recognizes the gameplay problems and thats somewhaaaaat of SAD for Developers of Games, like GW, that they take so long time, until changes find into the game.
****
****

(4): i explained the difference between my CTS and the System of how GW1 works I think above good enough
****
****

(5): Seiken Densetu 3 is one of the best Console RPG's ,that exist, just to say that first off

^^

Again, as long as these Career Tiers are all based on these 10 Core professions, its not a bad thing to have a big amount of different professions.
They differ from certain attributes, but certain professions would also share eventually some same Attributes, like Warriors and Knights would for example share 3 Core Attributes, but would differ from their Primary Attribute. They would differ from looks through special armor Sets, which wouldn't be differently powerful but would have the restriction to be only worn by specific Career Tiers, what would be exactly the same, as when you look at GW1, where Warriors can wear only Warrior armor, but no Ranger Armors with Warrior AL. More Proffessions make the world of GW2 more full of live, because so letter the rate of persons with the same profession amongst so much professions as possible ser under a fixed amount of people, so better is the grade of how full of life a game will look like.

like my little example showed. Its way better to have under 100 people 5 persons out of 20 Professions, than to have under 100 people only 10 persons from 10 professions. First one will let a Game look way more full of life, because you see then simple more different classes around you an thats good and lets the gameworld not look so fast boring, when you arenät ever surrounded by too much people, which would be all the same profession, like you.

dark_prince2023 · Jun 27, 2008, 01:28 PM // 13:28

This is my favorit thread! People taking all there exp. from past MMO's, Table Top Games, RPG's, through in a touch of RTS knowladge. I like how this game sounds. Now if we can just here some updates from the devs On Any Direction there going life would be a lot better.

mrbilzor · Jun 27, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Tears, in response:

1 - The GW1 way is, in total, ~40 skill lines. That is all the classes' attributes. In one toon you want to put 6 specific to that class only. With no breaks in the line, and forced evolving to the next tier of skill, that is 60 attribute lines for your ten core classes. Think of all the useless crap skills that are abound now, do you want to more than double that amount?

Once again, if that Knight can go two or three differant paths of evolution, the number of attribute lines, skills, armor, etc increases quickly. And for what reason? So you don't run into someone else that looks like your toon? Really?

2- Sorry, I don't think that there is nothing worser in the game than finding another toon that looks like your toon. That should not be the driving force behind GW2, and if it is, I will not buy it.

3- I'd much rather Anet fix 'tiny bugs' than the ability to make a giant hodgepodge of toon faces, hair style, scars, etc. I only see the back of the head anyways, cuz my toon is always running away from the fourth wall.

-

But, back to the original post: Every expansion class shouldn't be a part of GW2. Cut them all. I'd rather have less, more defined, deeper classes, rather than a hodgepodge of blended crap.

SpiritThief · Jun 27, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Doubt they would get rid of any of the melee classes seeing how there is only 3 of them in the first place, compared to the number of caster classes

Personally I hope they all go and they just start over with fresh classes and skills. OR even some sort of different job/class system.

zamial · Jun 27, 2008, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Its pretty obvious that a Norn should be far and away stronger than all the other races, except maybe the Charr.
And a Norn with a 2 handed hammer would pretty well treat an assuran character as a golf ball.

Ahh gopher ball. This sounds great. sooo your so much smarter than me ehhh? and call me booka just 1 more time.... All I have to say is "FOUR!!!!!". Even better senerio: an asuran cannon. We can grab some asuran 'sins w/ there spikey armor, shove them into a norn sized bazooka (we shall call it the booka bazooka) and now we have a "smart-missle".

During the cut scene on the bridge, in EoTN, all I could think was "Today we are gonna teach asurans how to fly."

We also have the PERFECT job for them. Since they are sooo smart we could tie 1 to a stick and shove it under a jotuns flap then they can finally end the long debate of which 1's are the males and which 1's are the females. The "asuran probe"

This is all in jest, learn to laugh or die!

lakatz · Jun 27, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Please excuse my ignorance. I count only 10 existing professions at the moment...

Ranger
Warrior
Monk
Elementalist
Mesmer
Necromancer

Ritualist
Assassin

Paragon
Dervish

That's all I can find when I look on the wiki as well. I'm so embarrassed... which one am I missing?

Bryant Again · Jun 27, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Why the Bear, of course.

I also like how I was able to tell that the above wall of text was a Phoenix post before I even reached his name.

lakatz · Jun 27, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Why the Bear, of course.

Lol... /forehead slap

It read to me in the OP that she was counting 11 professions when she said, "This means that there is a (frightening) possiblity that one of our beloved professions is given the chop!" rather than "...one or more of our beloved professions" that would have been in answer then to the "or less" part of "10 or less." However, in that only one profession would be chopped resulting in an odd number of professions is highly unlikely since it appears the dev team likes working in even numbers (6 + 2 + 2), the OP still reads to me that she was counting 11 professions...

Bryant Again · Jun 27, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

She may've been focusing on the "...or less" part, but I can understand how you could come to the conclusion (and hence confusion) of the loss of an 11th profession.

White Lies · Jun 27, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Im realy rather disapointed after opening this thread - i had no idea they might be killing off a proffesion.
If anything, I would call this (and probably unfairly) laziness on ArenaNets behalf. I play all of the proffessions listed and I would be completly put off Guild Wars if they were to drop my beloved Sin.
To those who wish to keep core-only proffessions in GW2: I do not see how that would work. Do any of you only use builds that rely on core proffession and core proffession only skills? I think not. I should hope not. Assassins may have caused a few problems at first but they have brought with them an amazing selection of new ideas and techniques to the game. I find just the concept of Ritualists brilliant. When I got Factions I read the descipton for ritualist and thought 'wow this guy looks brilliant' and then went on to use play and love them since that first day. The Nightfall professions were, in my opinion at least, rather disapointing. Though Paragons are absolutly brilliant in the long term with wonderfull party support abilities and fast mediocre damage attacks, people tend to ignor them because of the fact that they are not a 'fast' character and it takes a while to get them up to that level where they can be regarded as really really good. As for dervishes, another brilliant all-round profession, designed for high damage spikes and, like the assassin, to bring new tactical ideas to the game. I dont personaly enjoy playing the dervish much because i prefer firing out an attack chain then looking at my health screaming and running away than grinding out masses of damage whilst getting near constant healing from enchantements going down (sorry if that last sentence made no sense i failed at trying to say what i was thinking

).
Thats why i dont think any professions should get the chop.
~Lies

sixofone · Jun 27, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

Ahh gopher ball. This sounds great. sooo your so much smarter than me ehhh? and call me booka just 1 more time.... All I have to say is "FOUR!!!!!". Even better senerio: an asuran cannon. We can grab some asuran 'sins w/ there spikey armor, shove them into a norn sized bazooka (we shall call it the booka bazooka) and now we have a "smart-missle".

During the cut scene on the bridge, in EoTN, all I could think was "Today we are gonna teach asurans how to fly."

We also have the PERFECT job for them. Since they are sooo smart we could tie 1 to a stick and shove it under a jotuns flap then they can finally end the long debate of which 1's are the males and which 1's are the females. The "asuran probe"

This is all in jest, learn to laugh or die!

Your post made me LAWL!!

dark_prince2023 · Jun 27, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

Lol... /forehead slap

It read to me in the OP that she was counting 11 professions when she said, "This means that there is a (frightening) possiblity that one of our beloved professions is given the chop!" rather than "...one or more of our beloved professions" that would have been in answer then to the "or less" part of "10 or less." However, in that only one profession would be chopped resulting in an odd number of professions is highly unlikely since it appears the dev team likes working in even numbers (6 + 2 + 2), the OP still reads to me that she was counting 11 professions...

Even if so I still think they should redo the ones they have or else whats the point. If they make the same game it has just been a waist of time and they could have just improved on there current game and added more features/content.

Master Ketsu · Jun 27, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Monk - staple in MMO's, not happening.

Elementalist - May get changed into a more classic mage, but unlikely.

Ranger - staple in MMO's, not happening.

Warrior - staple in MMO's, not happening.

Mesmer - Hopefully not. The mesmers skill combo-ability is the defining point that makes GW different from the other mmorpg's out their. If mesmers get chopped I would not buy GW2 and would probably just get age of conan.

Necromancer - Will probobly be more balanced to avoid the cookie cutters, but otherwise... staple in MMO's, not happening.

Assassin - Highly likely to be completely redone, but I doubt anet would cut them out. a "Thief class" is also a staple in rpg's in general.

Ritualist - actually fine, but they may get chopped and added later. who knows.

Dervish - actually the most likely to get chopped and replaced by a different class IMO. I could see them being easily replaced by a more traditional transformer class, and having their utility skills split up evenly between the warrior, assassin, and monk classes.

Paragon - May get replaced by a class with the same idea ( songs = Bard = Staple in rpg's ) but different functionality to avoid the lameway builds.

Steps_Descending · Jun 28, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

so many wall of texts... ouch my head hurts.

Is it me or this thread has moved away from the original.

That being said, I'd vote for a dervish(dmg+def+aoe+utilities+healing? I dont get it) or paragon (they haven't been able to balance it). Assuming they don't change their view of the game, I'm thinking of giving every class healing capacities with no powerful healer (meaning derv could still work in that regard).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

and would probably just get age of conan

OH please at least don't chose that one.

Shayne Hawke · Jun 28, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

What I'm looking for is consolidation of professions. The six core professions should be the basis of what we get in GW2, throwing in the abilities of the four extras with those six, and then shifting it a little bit to have a new unique feel.

Ritualists would be best merged with Necros. Assassins and Paragons would have to be split between Warriors and Rangers. Dervishes would probably fit best with Monks. Elementalists and Mesmers are, for the most part, already true to what they are.

I don't really care what's up for the chopping block in GW2 as long as we don't get new professions in later campaigns that would cast trying to do game balance to all hell.

wazz · Jun 28, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Ugh, it is a total new game....

They already stated that they are changing alot (for better or worse, we'll see), so why can't they balance/change stuff to be more fair?

give me one reason anet wouldn't be able to "balance" it all out from the start ?

Anet can just add more counters to rit weapon spells,
add a new condition/hex(es) to counter to shadowstepping/shouts,
make a max amount of shouts that can be kept up,
change how the leadership atribute line works,
yada yada yada

Aside from that, removing any profesion from GW1 will lead to ... well... something the size of SWG CU/NGE QQing.

At the other hand changing entire profesions to be more 'fair' could work, and wouldn't lead to (alot of) QQing.

Also, I only can see 1 profesion being removed: the monk.

What we already know of GW2 seems to point towards the more standard direction of MMORPG, were most of the content is soloed.

Monks are mainly aimed at healing/proting (yeh, they can smite, but I have played this game for more then 2 years and I have seen but 2 smiting monks (none farmers)).

Unless anet completely change the way monks work, playing a monk through PVE or at least the start of PVE would be a living hell.

And other profesions (rit,gon, derv(?)) can heal also, so why give yourself such a hard time ?

The amount of RL monks would be even lower then it is now.
And of course getting one (or two or tree or ten or...) to join your party would be even harder.

Aside from that, seeing hero healers are a decent alternative to a RL monk already in GW1 and the companion seems to be (more like, I hope them to be) smarter then the GW1 hero,
RL monks wouldn't be needed at all for healing, mabye for proting(again, that depends on how companions work out, are they smart enough or too dumb to see a 'spike' coming? can they chain? etc etc).

I don't see any other profesion being removed, if they would remove them for what would or wouldn't work out for GW2.

Again, with the limited information known about casual PVP and average PVE, that seems to be logical (to me).