Curse

Dr.Jones · Aug 16, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

heros and hench AI has been bad for a long time this update didn't make it worse or noticeably better. they have always go off off where they are flagged. always had really bad path finding issues. the biggest problem is heros don't know how to use skills.

Darkside · Aug 16, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.

Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range.

Yah I've noticed my casters aren't as "stupid" as they used to be...my Master of Whispers used to almost always be the first one to engage the enemy by running up and casting random hexes on a mob then eating all the initial aggro damage...which obviously isn't good when you're a squishy necromancer.

Unfortunately, I've also noticed that when a group of monsters graze your aggro bubble the heros and hench will just randomly attack them. Even when flagged and even tho the monsters had not been aggroed.

Also noticed that the heros/hench still wont give up on targets. I've had Devona run off screen running after a mob.

When I was vanquishing in I believe it was the Dala uplands there was this charr mob that once aggroed would just run away from you...they would run a real long distance as well...anyway after chasing them a good distance I noticed that if I kept going I would be aggroing a bunch of groups so I stopped and Devona just kept going even tho everyone else had stopped. So I put a flag down and she started to come back my way. I canceled the flag and she again took off after the group even tho they were not even on screen anymore. It was weird...

Calista Blackblood · Aug 16, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sante_Kelm

I'm sorry, but Regina's reply is grossly inaccurate. Was it intended for melee henchmen to aggro five groups at a time? Was it intended for Sousuke to just stand around twiddling his thumbs? Was it intended for Olias to ignore Death Pact Signet when he's the only party member still standing? Should players be punished for trying to carefully pull? Should players be punished for not wanting to party with the gibbering mess of children who make up 90% of the population? (Ready for 'join a guild' comments here).

Please, please, please don't support this. There's a difference between making the game harder through legitimate means (making mobs a bit more variable, etc.) than making it frustrating due to poor programming. The more I think about it, I more I believe this whole problem was intentional. Oh well...I guess my dollar will be going to something else in the future. I haven't felt this addled about a gaming company since EA backstabbed their customers through SecuROM and shifted the blame.

I'm not even going to start on the whole 'melee henchmen seem to be more aggressive' band-aid.

This

And to add to it

Was it intended that minion masters cower at the back of a party? i could see through it if my mm ran bone fiends,but alas im not that stupid

Was it intended that devona aggros mobs in cantha while your party is in tyria?

Was it intended that a healer on "avoid combat" not takes it upon himself to not only aggro but tank until his energy is gone, proceed to die and leave the party without an important backliner and not act like a tank/puller.Not to mention the ignorance of flags across all heros ive played with lately.

Frankly im surprised HFFF is still possible

Actually! is there motive to all the h/h ai changes? Was the QQing about kurzick HFFF heeded? and this is an attempt to stop it/make it take longer?

Or is it a badly thought out attempt at making people PUG more?

I know it's not Regina's fault at lack of information and reasonable explanations,but it seems that lately anet has taken a "we have your money nao,so we're gonna make you unhappy" mentality

not a good way to keep player bases

Legion Magnus · Aug 16, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Jones

the biggest problem is heros don't know how to use skills.

Granted, and good point, although much like our children, they are not perfect in every way, but they are ours - to develop and mold into Heroes!

I'd much rather see ANet fix the skill-handling of Heroes than Henchman aggressiveness.

Legion Magnus

*Darcy* · Aug 16, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

This is new behavior on the part of melee henchmen, not just a perceived change.

I am taking my necro from KC to Marketplace (on foot as she is leveling heroes). I get to the TOP of stairs at the afflicted square. My aggro circle did not even reach the bottom of the stairs and the nearest party of afflicted was another 1/2 circle away.

I am studying the radar to determine the best area to pull when I see a green dot running out into the square. It is Talon leeroying his way to battle.(I wish they could talk, at least it would give you some warning.)

It was too late to flag him back, so we got swarmed by afflicted. This behavior is not normal for henchmen, even when the casters thought they were tanks.

Minako Sawai · Aug 16, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Agreed, I think improving the skill-handling (and builds for henchmen) would really make the biggest difference. While I haven't had (or perhaps noticed) the problems others are seeing, the AI control does seem to be doing some strange stuff.

Perhaps this thread will help prod things to be tweaked again until they get it right? The fact they changed things should mean they knew some work in this area was needed, now like some of the skill changes they just need to tweak until they get it right.

Devona's description from the wiki: "Devona is the level-headed leader of the party. She always assesses a situation before rushing in..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legion Magnus

Granted, and good point, although much like our children, they are not perfect in every way, but they are ours - to develop and mold into Heroes!

I'd much rather see ANet fix the skill-handling of Heroes than Henchman aggressiveness.

Legion Magnus

Lopezus · Aug 16, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Devona went berserk , that's for sure.

Kashrlyyk · Aug 16, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Just to take the fire away from Buenaobra: Linsey says the same stuff: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/showp...4&postcount=63

Nightow · Aug 16, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Earlier today. I was in the middle of a CoF run, on lvl2 in the very last room.

I had just taken out the first 3 mobs (2 undead and 1 of enchanted weapons) and needed a heal so I selected myself and manually had him cast Signet of Devotion on me. This is what happened:

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8924/gw057vf9.jpg

He would begin casting it and as soon as it reached the 1/3 mark, he would stop and repeat it in an infinite loop. I had to manually unselect the skill to get him to stop. Keep in mind, this was after a few moments and my allies healed me instead but still, he wouldn't cast it even when I was still below max health.

If Regina still reads this thread, I ask her to seriously look at whats being said here. Even though heroes might be fine and dandy to you guys, it's us who have to work with them most of the time.

pumpkin pie · Aug 17, 2008, 04:09 AM // 04:09

I have a question: are the hench program to attach healer/monk type foes at whatever cost?

I pwnd U · Aug 17, 2008, 04:12 AM // 04:12

My heroes seem to not realize I am there even more so now... I am the only one taking any damage and they sit there and watch me die. Normally they atleast try to heal me.

Abedeus · Aug 17, 2008, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by I pwnd U

My heroes seem to not realize I am there even more so now... I am the only one taking any damage and they sit there and watch me die. Normally they atleast try to heal me.

Lol same. I was vanquishing, the only person taking damage was me... And I was like:

75% - Okay, where's the heal?
50% - Uhm... Heal?
20% - What the hell?!
10% - HEAL ME YOU IDIOT!!
0% - Oh wow, now you use Resurrect, thank you, Sister Tai. Oh look, more people are dying.
25% - What, now I must heal myself? Oka...
0% - Forgot - no energy.

Woot, imo this is another way of saying "we don't like h/h'ers".

RedNova88 · Aug 17, 2008, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Or it could just be a simple bug that hasn't been fixed yet. H/H have ALWAYS been buggy like this. Crap like this was happening to me before the changes. Just because something bad happens to you, doesn't mean they're out to get you. I'm sure Anet understands the stupidity of PuGs, I'll still take regular old henchman over a random idiot that thinks he's the king of the world.

Angelica · Aug 17, 2008, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Just to take the fire away from Buenaobra: Linsey says the same stuff: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/showp...4&postcount=63

O.T. Why would you take the fire away from Buenaobra? She vouldn't care a bit about us, what kind of relations should she mantain with players?

I don't even know what she is doing at Anet!

I miss Gaile so much,

I wish she was back.

PS. Flame away...... I don't care anymore!

sindex · Aug 17, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Coming from a person who has done most of his work with Hero and Henchmen groups, this difference seems to be more leaned towards broken AI behavior then in previous builds. There is absolutely no reason why a Hero that is set to “Guard Mode,” should act like it’s on “Suicide Mode” (10 times worse then “Attack Mode”). I don’t care what the developers excuse is for this, since it is not “normal behavior.”

I’m going to do some more testing. However, it’s not just melee but caster H/H that are doing this as well.

Aussie Boy · Aug 17, 2008, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Calista BlackBlood
Was it intended that devona aggros mobs in cantha while your party is in tyria?

LOl that cracked me up

but it's so true.

Please roll back this stupid "Fix"

Kashrlyyk · Aug 17, 2008, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelica

O.T. Why would you take the fire away from Buenaobra? She vouldn't care a bit about us, what kind of relations should she mantain with players?

I don't even know what she is doing at Anet!

I miss Gaile so much,

I wish she was back.

PS. Flame away...... I don't care anymore!

Because shooting the messenger doesn´t help. Ms. Buenaobra informed herself and gave that information to us, that is her job. Nothing else.

**cosyfiep** · Aug 17, 2008, 08:36 AM // 08:36

I'm sorry but sosuke is STILL leading ....he is NOT a TANK!!!! PLEASE fix this!!!

(and yes no healing is getting old, good thing most of my characters have self heals)....and I dont seem to mind the new over agro of talon or devona since they are the ONLY heroes/henchies that seem to want to do anything at all....I select a target "I am targeting the healer" everyone just stands there looking bored except olias who is healing his minions...uhm get your pixelated butts in gear and go kill things!! Sigh.

pumpkin pie · Aug 17, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33

okay, this just happens today, Jora lol I hope this is not the results of all the QQ, Jora is on attack mode (first button) always unless i diable it, and caster is always on defence (second button) and she usually will continute to go for the next target closest her, but today, today she just can't make up her mind, kill first call target, ran back, I am already attacking second target, and I have to call it again, Jora whose half way running back turns around rand back to kill the second target then she turns around and ran toward me once more, why cos second target already down, so I have to call the third target .... and this goes one the whole trip, come on, don't play around, my survivor is very close to level 3 its making me getting heart attack.

Angelica · Aug 18, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Because shooting the messenger doesn´t help. Ms. Buenaobra informed herself and gave that information to us, that is her job. Nothing else.

^^ So sorry ..... It was not my intention to stress her up by too much work tho!