Curse

bussboy · Oct 26, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Healing Breeze is good if used properly with other skills. If u can kd with your sigs, then u can prevent alot of upfront dmg.

FlamingMetroid · Oct 26, 2008, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by bussboy

Healing Breeze is good

no, it isn't

snaek · Oct 26, 2008, 03:03 AM // 03:03

in regards to monk vs rit...

monks keep eles in check better
and if u recognize that eles r a high tier, then this is important

u can argue that weapon of warding keeps rangers in check better
but rangers switch targets often, and not single target dps
so its more useful only against war/sin/derv/para

but wait...thats 4 classes vs 1???
well... considerin that there is already so much dam melee-hate already
it may not always be totally necessary

and while healing breeze is a meh skill
its still a 269hp heal
making it the best red-bar-go-up skill

wielders boon can stop a group spike better
but group spikes arent quite as common in a random costume brawl
(especially wit so much split)

and smite hex and smite condition should not be underestimated
it wont necessarily stop a teamate from dying due to conditions/hexes
but it will keep ur frontline fairly free from melee-hate hexes & blind

the rit definatelly has a better all-around bar in terms of 1vs1 and matchups (and utilizing imba skills)
but i think for overall team support (and better synergy wit the other skill bars)...i'd have to give that to the monk

edit: this isnt bout which one is better
jus their advantages/disadvantages
as, if u read my earlier post, i class them in the same tier

RTSFirebat · Oct 26, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

I attribute everybody's bad tactics to wiki notes saying to stay together.

While I agree with everything you said about people being insulting, I hardly believe Wiki alone is the reason people stick together. To be honest I believe its because most people don't have a clue what they are doing and sticking together is the easy option

wind fire and ice · Oct 26, 2008, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Whats all the monk hate for?

There build is good-damage and enough healing to outheal most any thing the brawl builds can do,soo i cant see how it's"bad".

DarkNecrid · Oct 26, 2008, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

And you've ignored the fact that the monk is actually far harder to kill the ritualist is.

No, he isn't.

Weapon of Warding (the aforementioned single most broken unstrippable protective spell in the game) makes sure of that.

You just said it fails versus 3 people, the Ritualist absolutely needs 3+ beating down on it at all times just to try to kill (if he's good and kiting vs melee right, etc), and that's assuming one of them is an ele.

The Ritualist is better in every way, Healing Breeze is inefficient (Wielder's Boon is better, for the people who keep going ZOMG BUT IN COSTUME BRAWL...I was talking about CB.), your removal lacks purpose if you're staying mobile and splitting like both teams should be doing, and your one prot (Reversal of Damage) is inefficient and serves no real purpose w/o DB or SB. Vig Spirit is also bad in general, the only reason people have ever used it is because of the Healer's Covenant build, and that's because of what HC does.

Saying another group of people are dumb and can't figure it out because they are elitist is the very definition of elitism fyi. I've never called you stupid or bad, but you're just plain wrong. It is a bad build, the Ritualist is better at everything except removing stuff that 99% of the stuff in the CB doesn't really matter if its removed because it's a mobile game type. It's worse than the Ritualist in every way, that makes it a bad build. Unfortunately I gave you a bunch of stuff between 2 teams of skilled players, and you've given me nothing in return except I beat X/Y/Z or that your team won X times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Can we all agree that the whole "stick together noobs" people are annoying?
I mean, I've never seen so many dumb players who think they know what they are talking about bossing people around. Staying together is NOT the smartest thing to do in Costume Brawl, and I attribute everybody's bad tactics to wiki notes saying to stay together.

4 people cap a shrine at the same speed as 5. It's smarter at the start to split into groups of 2 and 3 people, cap, run from the enemy mobs when outnumbered, and then reform up into a group to bottle up the enemy at their base once you've gotten the majority of the shrines.

Please PLEASE stop going "OMG noob, stay together" and bossing people around/insulting them in the first 30 seconds of the match because some people are smart enough to ignore your map pings.

Agreed so bad.

The worst is when they don't send ANYONE to the Battle Cry shrines at the start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind fire and ice

Whats all the monk hate for?

There build is good-damage and enough healing to outheal most any thing the brawl builds can do,soo i cant see how it's"bad".

Ritualist does better damage and heals for more and has a better prot. Removal skills aren't needed for 99% of the stuff in the game type if you're mobile. The only thing the Monk has is Disruption, and if you have a War/Sin/Ranger who know what they are doing, you have enough of it already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael805

Thread was tl;dr, but the monk bar compared to the others is completely underpowered.

Honestly, last year the brawls were fun because all of the bars were basically equally bad. This year, having anything but a monk is a good thing.

And to the guy posting about getting 10 wins with 4 skills... you had 3 big red bar go up skills. The brawl monks have... healing breeze! Bad argument.

Agreed on your first 2 paragraphs a lot, except for the 2nd paragraph, *monk and paragon* because the Paragon is also epic fail.

Also it isn't a bad argument, a bad build is a bad build, and 3 big red bar go up skills (and that is it) is bad, even in RA. Either bad builds can win, or that build is good (which it isn't.). So obviously bad builds can win, which was the crux of my argument.

EDIT:
I've given you all the data and everything that needs to be said Bhavv, if you can't see that the Monk bar is bad because the Ritualist is better in every way, than you're blind and nothing I can say is gonna change that, so I'm not going to even bother.. PvPers have nothing against Smite, it's been viable a ton of times in PvP, Smiteway, RaOway, etc. Just because you're short-sighted to see outside the box and analyze it with the other builds in a team setting doesn't mean everyone else is. I never said the Monk build couldn't win, I said it was a bad build because in this vacuum (Costume Brawl), the Ritualist is more effective in every single way possible. Maybe Tyla'll get bored or something, who knows.

TurinPT · Oct 26, 2008, 05:24 AM // 05:24

anyone else noticed something "odd" about the name of the new map?

DarkNecrid · Oct 26, 2008, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Yes, it's a reference to Piplup from Pokemon because people on the Wiki would put Piplup on the Anet discussion pages.

FoxBat · Oct 26, 2008, 05:52 AM // 05:52

You'd think removing snares would count for mobility. Guess not eh?

DarkNecrid · Oct 26, 2008, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

You'd think removing snares would count for mobility. Guess not eh?

That's why I said 99%, the only things even deserving of being truly removed are the snares. Everything else hex/condition wise can be outhealed by a Rit/waited out/ignored. But none of the snares last that long, two of the five can be avoided completely (one by being smart, both thanks to Rit as well), another two of the five are on one class that might not even show up (but if it does they are very short), and the last one is indeed the most annoying one because it's effectively a 19 second snare (the longest lasting one in the game mode) and is on probably the 3rd most common class in the game type, but it's not crippling enough to make your entire team lose if you're split, you have other guys taking shrines etc. This is assuming you have a Monk actually with you to remove it (if you have only 1 and are split) and that none of it gets covered before he can remove it, obviously. (which won't happen on 3 of the 4 classes, and if your Monk isn't fast enough (faster than a 1.17 second reaction time), that's 4 out of 4 classes that'll cover it before you can do anything.)

Div · Oct 26, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

The reason why they took the HB-style maps out of RA was because people in RA were too stupid to handle something like that. Apparently Anet didn't get the lesson and decided to do it in costume brawl again.

DarkNecrid · Oct 26, 2008, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

The reason why they took the HB-style maps out of RA was because people in RA were too stupid to handle something like that. Apparently Anet didn't get the lesson and decided to do it in costume brawl again.

I dunno man, towards the end of the event (last couple days) last year everyone sorta figured it out, got the bars, got the meta, and I had some good games (infinitely better than anything I've had in HB/RA/AB at least). People were splitting and playing good etc. I think it's just people haven't done it for a year so they kinda forgot and/or they haven't figured out these bars and how they interact in a team setting of 32 skills since admittedly a lot of these skills don't see use in PvE at all (because of more broken stuff).

Also to add on to hawks list of annoying things:
-People who zerg (kinda like he said) but ignore the shrines.
-People who don't go for the Battle Cry shrine and think it sucks even though it's the best shrine right next to the Energy shrine.

i had both of these in a single game just now.

Avarre · Oct 26, 2008, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

The reason why they took the HB-style maps out of RA was because people in RA were too stupid to handle something like that. Apparently Anet didn't get the lesson and decided to do it in costume brawl again.

I even give my team the plan before every match and say what needs to be done, and they still manage to screw up in the first five seconds sometimes.

It's great fun with a team that knows what to do and does it without prompting, but having to deal with everyone else that doesn't know how to play on a tactical level or on a micro character level just gets annoying. Ah well, it's a fun little arena that's noob-friendly PvP.

Mr. Undisclosed · Oct 26, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

<3 playing ele. Only problems I ever have are mesmers but everyone tends to think they suck so I don't see many

Rangers tend to be pretty easy as well. Team with 3 or more rangers>everything.

Dr.Jones · Oct 26, 2008, 07:56 AM // 07:56

SO this is why i don't like guru they delete posts because they don't like what they say like i said before fail more. also the Paragon bar needs to be fixed they need to remove 1 of the attack skills and replace it with there on fire or just remove anthem of flame because it makes no scene to be on that bar.

bhavv · Oct 26, 2008, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Ritualist does better damage and heals for more and has a better prot. Removal skills aren't needed for 99% of the stuff in the game type if you're mobile. The only thing the Monk has is Disruption, and if you have a War/Sin/Ranger who know what they are doing, you have enough of it already. You obviously cant be playing the game or paying much attention to it if you believe that you dont need removal skills. Talking to an elitist PVP'er who cant play costume brawls FTL!

Removal skills are needed throughout the game even if you are mobile - Poison and Cripple, Deep wound / Bleeding, necro + elly hexes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If a Ranger can't D-Shot that RoD, he'll probably have you snared and making you take longer to move from shrine to shrine, cutting mobility.

Smite Condition on teh Cripple lololol!!!

But you are right, Monks are so fail at costume brawl:

We only then lost to a 2 monk team who out DPS'ed us and also knew what they were doing. (I was doing most of the shrine capping BTW).

(Hint - We had 3 smite conditions and hexes, and warriors in the front line covered with Insidious Parasite / Suffering, Poioson, Deep Wound, Bleeding, Blind. Smite, smite, smite, and enemies just go boom =D)

Quote:

15 seconds is a lot of time. Also, how the frig do you uphold yourself with HB / RoD / Vig against a WS Dervish...?

By hitting them with KD signets and kiting, spamming RoD to negate most of their damage while you heal up with Healing Breeze. You also obviously arent playing the build, nor understand how it works in this specific situation. This isnt high end PVP, it is costume brawl. Forget any logic that applies to HA / GVG / PVE, because it doesnt apply here. I am managing to use it to hold against all of the other builds. Health + Energy Shrines also help. By the time you are out of energy however, your attacker will normally be fleeing.

But let me just be cool then like all the other build QQ'ers and agree that the monk build is terrible. I'll just keep on playing it and winning over and over again because it sucks so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid

no, it isn't

Healing Breeze + Vigorous Spirit is the best 'Red Bar Up' method if you arent going to die in 15 seconds, but just take moderate amounts of damage. You are only going to die fast if you get attacked by all 5 of the enemy team at once, and that actually happens much more rarely then you have to use condition + hex removals on your front line warriors.

FengShuiDove · Oct 26, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

After playing both Rit and Monk, I have to say that Rit is much more balanced and playable. The advantage to Monk, however, is allowing faster kills. In my opinion, being able to hit any of the big anti-melee hexes (even if just one while leaving another) and cleaning up DW to allow a big d0mage dealer to stay in the middle of a fight longer and kill someone is a notable ability. Also, used strategically, the KD signets are quite effective though sporadic because of recharge.

The damage from Rit is clearly superior and the protective abilities (all of the heals are... pretty apt actually) are much more generally useful. Still, in niche situations (though fairly common ones), the Monk is playable.

I'm really enjoying the brawl this year. However, don't plan on seeing me play anything but Rit, Sin, and *maybe* Ele or trying out Ranger.

DarkNecrid · Oct 26, 2008, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Removal skills are needed throughout the game even if you are mobile - Poison and Cripple, Deep wound / Bleeding, necro + elly hexes. I can add flaming stuff to quotes too just like this.

Poison and Bleeding are easily out healed by a Rit, Necro and Mes hexes are a non-issue you can wait out, Ele hexes are troublesome yes, but as I said before, not game lose causing, and Deep Wound is a non-issue in this game type if you know how to kite and are mobile and know how to run away (but is a problem if you're being dumb and running into situations where you're guaranteed to die, yes.).

I already said Cripple's the only thing to watch out for but it's not common enough in the most played classes and with a Cripple reduction shield, it's not that bad at all.

You can post all the screenshots you want, but I've already shown you bad builds can win, and they mean nothing. In a random arena with random players, anything can win, but that doesn't make it good.

bhavv · Oct 26, 2008, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Poison and Bleeding are easily out healed by a Rit, Necro and Mes hexes are a non-issue you can wait out, Ele hexes are troublesome yes, but as I said before, not game lose causing, and Deep Wound is a non-issue in this game type if you know how to kite and are mobile and know how to run away (but is a problem if you're being dumb and running into situations where you're guaranteed to die, yes.).

I already said Cripple's the only thing to watch out for but it's not common enough in the most played classes and with a Cripple reduction shield, it's not that bad at all.

You can post all the screenshots you want, but I've already shown you bad builds can win, and they mean nothing. In a random arena with random players, anything can win, but that doesn't make it good.

Again, you miss the entire point.

You get a three monk team and go smiting all those conditions and hexes off your front line and watching the enemy team die. It isnt a bad build, it is highly effective when there are two or three monks and 3 monks 2 warriors is just the best thing going in this game for the best defense and damage output (Yes my team messed up because we lost shrines to a better team then got killed). Conditions and hexes are always there to be smited. The more monks you get, the more damage you dish out.

I didnt realise that the Rit had any AoE skills like smite Condition and Hex. They actually do far more damage and pressure in 2 / 3 monk teams then a 2 / 3 rit team could do.

And you still carry on comparing brawl to RA, and your monk with actually useless melee skills which is just daft. Nothing on the brawl monks skill bar is a bad skill, you have 8 highly useful and good skills to use in every situation you will encounter in Costume Brawls.

You also ignored my question to you of what you would be doing in the Brawl if the monks were pure WoH healers and you got three of them. You wouldnt be able to kill anything or get any points to win, but you can do that easilly with several smite monks.

The benefits about the monk build far outweigh your negatives which honestly only apply to HA and GVG, not to Costume Brawls.

Jebus · Oct 26, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

This game is fun... when you have a good team, which happens almost never.
Every team I get in is filled with noobs that can't follow the simplest orders, or don't know jack about tacts. Example; A 3-2 split at the beginning would be great, but instead they chose to rush with 5, (capping a shrine is capped at +4 btw), and that's just one of the reasons why random GW PVP fails. loads.
It's just annoying to get teamed up with such retards...