Curse

Test Me · Nov 09, 2008, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Maybe it's just me but...

So this game has hundreds of skills/semi skills (aka cons, etc) and so on. I am trying to get into and learn stuff and be able to look at a hex/condition/enchant icon and figure out quickly from just the icon what the heck is happening to me.

I usually fail since if it isn't one of those dozens of skills that I haven't saw before is most likely one of the skills that was "balanced" and even if I knew what it was doing, it was most likely nerfed every other month or so.

So the only choice would be to hover the mouse on the icon of the skill when the enemy is casting it or on my enchants/conditions bar. And then spend some time reading the text. And by the time I finish probably figure that I died in the process. So that's not actually a choice. So what I can do is just *ignore* most of it, look at my health bar and degen and try to keep that ok.

So let's see. Anet says that they don't like the game skills system because it's too complex and has too many skills players need to be able to know. I agree, I've been playing for years now and there every now and then I see skills I had no clue that existed. But that is not the entire story.

Add to that a monthly nerfing system and if you look back since the beginning of GW you have thousands of skills and versions.

So even if you are experienced with the game and you take a month break when you come back most of the builds you used are good for nothing, skills have changed, wikis describing them are getting old and outdated faster than any community could keep up with (look at community sites with builds).

So there's a constant learning curve and catching up with changes both PvP and PvE. PvP may take it easier, but in PvE it's really not fun if you buy another character slot, level it up, upgrade its equipment to fit a specific task/farm and by the time you're all done the farm cannot be done anymore cause it was nerfed.

I do realize that this isn't a much of a problem for people that play 8h per day, but for casual players like me that get online maybe just in the weekends... trying to catch up is really exhausting and boring. I spend most of my play time catching up and changing armors and builds, than actually playing. So that's where the fatigue is coming from.

---------------------------
Now to conclude. I would find normal that skills are being adjusted couple of months after a game is released because there are bugs in the skill design that were not uncovered, but for this to be a monthly thing going on for over 3 years after the game was launched... hmmm.

It seems that ANet employees have nothing better to do and instead of providing new content that would provide new exiting challenges by being tuned/vulnerable to a specific set of skills but very resistant to another.. they just randomize the current skills, see where that gets the players.

We fight same old goblins for years now, just the skills we used to do it change, which then in turn causes a chain that other skills need to change cause the change introduces even more "bugs", which becomes a never ending story.

But then again, I've come to believe this is the one biggest flaw of ANet designers. They never seem to think of areas of situations that would emphasize a particular set of skills. They probably don't even take into consideration builds when designing areas in either PvP or PvE. They just design something and expect users to figure out what works best.

That is completely wrong imo. I think they should all start with a build and go like: "so lets add an area (PvP or PvE) where this build and this tactic gives an advantage".

I even go as far that I think on all the mission wiki pages they should list a build for each profession that does a decent job. Not good, but decent. Just like a game *manual*. "If you want to play the paragon through this mission here is a decent build we suggest". With the note that it isn't the best way to do it, but it is good given what they had in mind for that area.

My suggestion to ANet: stop spending time at spoiling the fun of people that find a good farm build or whatever, and start working on content that makes other builds even more interesting and fun so people just give up the ones you don't like.

How would it be if doing a 3h dungeon in hm with a full people team would be more rewarding than 3h of UW SC? Right now 3h in a dungeon with 7 other people is a waste of time, you get like 2k and a crappy green. So if people do that they just do it as a guild sacrifice to help new players.

How would it be if normal play would be better in rewards than farming?
Personally, I don't enjoy farmings and short repetitive actions. I would enjoy better playing another profession on another toon, but the truth is that given the current state of affairs that is just a waste of time. The only way to advance my main toon is to farm, at this point. Quests offer a laughable gold reward, missions and dungeons are even worse, etc, etc.

So please spend more time offering people choices than nerfing. You're not addressing the core problem. It is not a problem of skills and builds that people can own the entire game with a single build (as ursanway or cryway), it is a problem of the game content that all areas are so much alike.

Valkyria · Nov 09, 2008, 10:03 AM // 10:03

So,I planned on commenting it by saying something deep. I really did.
But...

lol @ you. QQ moar

360° · Nov 09, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

tl;dr. QQ less.

MisterB · Nov 09, 2008, 10:22 AM // 10:22

I wrote a reply, but it got swallowed up in a database error. I find it disheartening that you conclude with complaining about farming. Skill balances should not be based on that at all. Adapt and overcome, or don't play.

ANet's answer to your dilemma is Guild Wars 2. See you there.

Test Me · Nov 09, 2008, 10:24 AM // 10:24

As I said already, I'm not playing this game 8h per day (that would be sickening for me), nor I am reading this forum as much. I don't even know what qq means, must be better than pp, I guess, but I bet its nothing really relevant to what I've said.

upier · Nov 09, 2008, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

So there's a constant learning curve and catching up with changes both PvP and PvE. PvP may take it easier, but in PvE it's really not fun if you buy another character slot, level it up, upgrade its equipment to fit a specific task/farm and by the time you're all done the farm cannot be done anymore cause it was nerfed.

I do realize that this isn't a much of a problem for people that play 8h per day, but for casual players like me that get online maybe just in the weekends... trying to catch up is really exhausting and boring. I spend most of my play time catching up and changing armors and builds, than actually playing. So that's where the fatigue is coming from.

Maybe switch to a different game?
Because I don't think that your wishes are compatible with this game. And considering the general opinion here - I don't think the game should be modified to suit your wishes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

So please spend more time offering people choices than nerfing. You're not addressing the core problem. It is not a problem of skills and builds that people can own the entire game with a single build (as ursanway or cryway), it is a problem of the game content that all areas are so much alike.

This is the good stuff though.
Fix the crappy PvE and then kill the overpowered crap, rather then killing the overpowered crap and doing nothing about the crappy PvE.

Aera · Nov 09, 2008, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Basically you're a slower learner, and you want the game to adjust to you instead of the other way around.

Zabe · Nov 09, 2008, 11:15 AM // 11:15

One good note for you. Read updates from official wiki or guildwars.com website. Easier to see changes there than in game.

Test Me · Nov 09, 2008, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

Basically you're a slower learner, and you want the game to adjust to you instead of the other way around.

Not necessarily on the subject but:
It's a game. I play games in my spare time for fun. If I want to learn something I read a book. There's no real useful knowledge you learn in GW.

I'm not at all a slow learner, I just want to *play* this game. Again for PvP a dynamic skill system makes much more sense and things are adapted to that, but even there you get problems because people loose track of what's happening. (Why do you think most casual players keep pressing the space bar even though they're hexed with Empathy in costume brawl?)

For PvE if you choose to invest time and game gold into getting the X armor + weapon set on a newly made and leveled up assassin let's say, and then you figure it's all for nothing before you used it, it's not like you can load a new equipment template for it you know?

You have to go back there, usually solo "farm" again for the gold required to update equipment and/or level up a new profession and so on and so on. Until one day comes around (like it did with me) and you figure out that all you've been doing lately was to "prepare" to play but never actually got to play.

I still wish things were more stable. Sometimes it feels to me that ANet is changing the rules of the game depending on what side of the bed they woke up.

If this really is how the core of the game should be, then leave it as that but:
- give me the option to create level 20 PvE toons
- give me the option to load equipment templates in PvE based on what I've unlocked, and even elite armors could be unlocked for all my other toons once I buy the first set
- give me the option to travel any place on the map I have already unlocked on another toon

And then we're fair. Then they can change the rules and I can immediately adapt and play. Until that is going to happen, it's going to take all my play time to adapt to their silly nerfs.

Dark Dragon · Nov 09, 2008, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

If this really is how the core of the game should be, then leave it as that but:
- give me the option to create level 20 PvE toons
- give me the option to load equipment templates in PvE based on what I've unlocked, and even elite armors could be unlocked for all my other toons once I buy the first set
- give me the option to travel any place on the map I have already unlocked on another toon

And then we're fair. Then they can change the rules and I can immediately adapt and play. Until that is going to happen, it's going to take all my play time to adapt to their silly nerfs.

From what this sounds like your NOT adapting and playing.

To me adapting and playing would be to stick to your class and ADAPT your skills and tactics to the changes.

Your reason to be able to create a maxed out character is to just exploit the latest farm build that pops up.

gerlin · Nov 09, 2008, 11:54 AM // 11:54

0h t3h n0e2, mai Ski11z g0t n3rfz0rd!!
I haven't played GW in like 2 months and i have no trouble keeping up. All you need to do, is look at the monthly updates and look at pvxwiki.
All skills changes are shown, and new farm builds created after nerfing a certain farm are posted too.

Also it helps to browse through here once a week. You can't find like 5 minutes of time to update yourself??

And changing armors? Runes don't make that much of a difference. If your build sucks no matter how good your runes are placed you'll still fail. You can use farm builds without any runes, but with them it makes it way easier.

I agree with the rest, if you can't beat them join them: change your attitude or change your game.

Amy Awien · Nov 09, 2008, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Well, just play PvE and don't worry too much about your equipment, runes are cheap.

pamelf · Nov 09, 2008, 12:12 PM // 12:12

I'm sorry, but I don't think the OP deserves all this sarcasm. It was a well constructed post, and actually has some valid points if you read it all the way through. With so many skills, and so many changes it IS sometimes hard to keep track of what skills are doing, and what changes have been made and how they effect you. Builds are constantly in flux, and it makes it difficult to get a grip on skill usage sometimes.

Personally i like this since it breathes new life into the game, since I'm constantly kept on my toes, playing with builds that I used to use but are no longer relevant. I can totally understand how the constant changes can be aggravating for more casual players though.

gremlin · Nov 09, 2008, 12:14 PM // 12:14

The skill changes affect pve builds very little, in pvp they prevent one build dominating that part of the game.

Farming is the biggest loser in skill changes but then farming isn't really part of the game.
Well not part of the game as it was designed, it's a player creation.

The skill changes also prevent one build dominating farming, you just have to adapt to the change.
Find a new area devise a new build and farm till it changes, pvp players do it all the time.

If gw2 has totally separate skill effects for pvp and pve it might change otherwise we will see the same rebalancing there too.

Garreth MacLeod · Nov 09, 2008, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

I still wish things were more stable. Sometimes it feels to me that ANet is changing the rules of the game depending on what side of the bed they woke up.

Nah, for changes to PvE it isn't which side of the bed, it's whatever the PvE groupies are whining about the most.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Fix the crappy PvE and then kill the overpowered crap, rather then killing the overpowered crap and doing nothing about the crappy PvE.

Yeah, but that takes time. And we have GW2 to work on. It's far, far easier to just nerf the overpowered stuff to oblivion and not look back /sarcasm

(I do agree with skill balances for PvP btw. It does need balance. I just think Anet tends to take the lazy way out sometimes and totally kills a skill rather than coming up with a good solution)

MiraBlackhand · Nov 09, 2008, 12:18 PM // 12:18

The simple way around this is to simply read these forums for an hour a week and get an idea as to what the latest builds are and then read the skills within the builds (or simply study PvX). This game is far too meta to care about obscure spells, in both PvE and PvP, as your chances of seeing or using them is too little to care.

Test Me · Nov 09, 2008, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

Personally i like this since it breathes new life into the game, since I'm constantly kept on my toes, playing with builds that I used to use but are no longer relevant. I can totally understand how the constant changes can be aggravating for more casual players though.

That's what i'm thinking they got wrong, or maybe not fully addressing. They nerf skills all the time. put it in a different light they nerf us as what we can do as players, but they never address the core issues of their PVE (and PvP I dare say) content.

What if they would spend a little bit more energy on breathing new life into the game not by limiting what we can do as players but more like updating their areas/content and possibly adding new areas meant/desinged for a certain set of skills?

Take any PvE area as it is today and you will find out that it was probably never designed or fine tuned with a certain set of player builds in mind. They say the build is most important in guild wars, they why are they not designing content with a given team build in mind?

Yes people would find different ways to do stuff, maybe even more efficient that what was originally designed, but right most PvE areas are just the same. There is no area to require heavy interrupts as the major tactic, there is no area to require heavy healing as major tactic and so on. Think of all the different challenges each area could pose.

Test Me · Nov 09, 2008, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Oh and farming, yeah. I really don't get why they don't offer say 20k for completing a 3h HM dungeon run. Is that such a horrible thing to do? I guess so, it would encourage people to play the game instead of farming it.

Even with a 20k reward it would be under the farming income had people farm the whole 3h, but at least playing the game would be a viable option to farming.

So instead of offering options to farms they nerf the farms and still leave us with no option to make money out of normal play. Heck they could even add a reward of 1k if you play a mission with a team that has at least one member that didn't finish that mission. Yes, you could abuse that by "farming" the mission, but how much worse is that compared to solo farming? At least to farm it you would need to help a new toon through the mission.

pamelf · Nov 09, 2008, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

What if they would spend a little bit more energy on breathing new life into the game not by limiting what we can do as players but more like updating their areas/content and possibly adding new areas meant/desinged for a certain set of skills?

Now this I TOTALLY agree with. We all know, and Anet knows that the skill system is broken. No amount of nerfing, or tweaking will ever make it perfect, or even half decently fixed. Instead of focussing so much of their energy on 'skill balances' which really only end up pissing off most of the community anyway it would be nice to see their time, energy and funds put to a use which will bring something new into the game instead of constantly rehashing the old.

garethporlest18 · Nov 09, 2008, 12:45 PM // 12:45

The best way I found to cure it was to move to a town like Shing Jea or Great Temple of Balth and sit and stare at the screen, then log off and do something else.

Oh and the reason I think they don't give high money rewards like you said, so things have prestigious value. So other folks can say haha I have 10 sets of FoW to your puny 2 sets and 3 15k sets. Plus my mini panda>your account. I think Anet just likes to have that e-peen factor out and about.