Curse

Takeko Nakano · Nov 16, 2008, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Making money doesn't bite businesses in the ass, bad decisions that affect a majority of consumers negatively, or stupid mistakes like bad management etc does.

Not just a majority of customers but a large enough number of long-term customers that stick through a company through thick and thin. Microsoft is an exception because it was able to get into a position where it could dominate the market - Google is a similar case. Whereas Guild Wars is just one amongst many.

enter_the_zone · Nov 16, 2008, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

/facepalm

So because you own 3 seperate accounts... you are mad because you need to do 3 times the work?

*sigh*

No, just annoyed that it's added more work than there was before. This update was supposed to be about reducing title grind...

For me, Grind = time, not the activity you're doing during that time. It still takes the same amount of time to max this title, so it's still just as grindy, without the obvious cash bonus of HFFF. I detest farming (primarily as it usually requires pugs, and pugs are fail ) so HFFF was a brilliant solution for cash to pay for other titles too.

If they wanted to make it unbottable, stopping the signposts from being next/previous target would have probably done that. Yes, it would have probably annoyed a lot of us HFFFers, since we used the post, but it would have been better than this... Hell, even introducing a slight random variable in the spawn points of the mobs would have axed most bots.

Frozy · Nov 16, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Basically, this is the way i see it :

The update was supposed to reduce grind, one of the so-called "solutions" is giving more rewards for playing the game normally.
That's a good concept, with good execution it could be great.

So what's the problem? only newer players, or players who would repeat the missions anyway, can enjoy this.
Players who already did the missions, possibly a few times, have to do them Again - they have to Grind , that's why the "solution" missed the entire point.
Not to mention there are lots of players in that group, possibly the majority.

The solution would be much better if it would be retroactive - but it's not, why?
They can't say they didn't track the achievements, we can see them on the map and on the titles.
The economy? Well, lets ignore the economy arguments for this one, lets say they were right... why didn't we at least get the faction/reputation points? that's the main thing we're missing here, the gold is secondary.

So please, those of you here who argue, can you please give me a good reason for this?

Shooshu · Nov 16, 2008, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Well, about the books I think they should done it like in GW:EN.
If you have finished a mission without a book you should pay a small fee to record it in the book .

Frozy · Nov 16, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shooshu

Well, about the books I think they should done it like in GW:EN.
If you have finished a mission without a book you should pay a small fee to record it in the book .

That's exactly what we're saying, the excuse is the gold reward... they could simply remove it, what we want is the faction/rep.

By the way, for those of you who'll probably say i am complaning because i am one of those who suffer from this screwup - It's true i am one of those, but i am really trying to make a fair review here.
Also, i am not asking for "extras" for being a veteran, i am asking for equal rewards, we should get the same rewards they're getting now.
They're getting it naturally, we have to grind.
Is being equal too much to ask?

Fay Vert · Nov 16, 2008, 03:34 PM // 15:34

The real fail here is that for a game which has minimal dev work happeneing (because the priority is GW2) they chose to waste that limited resource on these books. There are much better things they could have done, like the Rotscale update, maybe even ad a single new zone for us, or a handful of new quests, a weapons mod trader, make it so you don't have to zone around just to see a map etc. So many better things they could have dome with the dev resource but they chose these sucky books.

Jongo River · Nov 16, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozy

Also, i am not asking for "extras" for being a veteran, i am asking for equal rewards, we should get the same rewards they're getting now.
They're getting it naturally, we have to grind.
Is being equal too much to ask?

Yes, because it's not about veteran players vs newbies, it's about people who feel affected and people who don't. We've all completed Factions x times, but we are not all bitching about missing out on free books. Most of us are pretty happy to have received a very decent update!

Aldric · Nov 16, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

If they did change the books to be retroactive then I wouldnt automatically have lots to turn in, maybe 3 or 4 NM and a HM at most.

However I do have 11 or so chars which have partially done both NM and HM and they cannot get a full book as and when I go back and play with them because I cannot fill in the books for missions I have done. I really don't want to spend half my time repeating all the missions I have done already so that I can get an equal reward, I just wanna get on and progress all my characters.

I think there were a couple of small points like this which turned a really great update into a good update

DreamWind · Nov 16, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Yeah I know it totally bit Microsoft in the ass, and Google in the ass, and Walmart in the ass...and......oh wait it hasn't ever bitten any business in the ass outright because thats the fundamental basic rule of being a business in a Capitalist country: try to make the most money while keeping as much money as possible. A lot more people are happy with this update than there are complainers, which means they've kept a lot of money (future investments) while making more.

Making money doesn't bite businesses in the ass, bad decisions that affect a majority of consumers negatively, or stupid mistakes like bad management etc does.

I would agree with you except for the fact that this update probably did little if anything for their revenue. This update was only for the benefit of the current players, and in reality I bet this update pissed a lot of players off that aren't posting here about it.

Besides, you actually think this update is fair and Anet's reasons for them are justified?

Inde · Nov 16, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

As a reminder, any posts that are insults to an individual or the community as a whole will be deleted. Please stay on topic and contributing.

Cluebag · Nov 16, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

I think one thing that sort of chaps the ass of some players is the fact that Anet, at least before this update, used to be fairly consistent with giving retroactive credit towards things if a significant change towards obtaining a particular goal is affected. Forgive me if I get some of these dates/times wrong, I haven't kept up on my chronological GW calendar as far as updates are concerned, but I'll try to remember as best as I can.

I remember once upon a time, back in the olden days, before Prophecies was officially known as Prophecies, one of the things I did in my spare time was take my characters thru each mission with the objective of obtaining both the mission and bonus, simply because they were there. When the title system went live (I can't remember if it was before or after Factions went live), magically, the 3 toons I knocked out the m&b with all had their protector title maxed. We didn't have to repeat the missions, we were credited for our accomplishments. If I remember correctly, we also received credit towards which parts of the map we had uncovered as well, so it was nice that we didn't have to re-explore stuff.

However, for the gladiator title, when that went live, all the previous 10 win streaks I had in RA weren't credited. Sure I thought 'bummer', but oh well, life goes on. I understood it would have been difficult to retroactively credit people on that one, since there wasn't a tracking system in place, unlike the m&b's. So I continued to do the occasional RA and I didn't worry about it too much. Now when they revamped the gladiator title to the 5 win and incrementation style of advancement, this time I was credited retroactively, my 27 odd glad points became 150ish or whatever it was, and I was appreciative of that (not that I'm seriously pursuing that title, but meh). In this case I didn't have to go and re-earn anything, cause the glad title was previously in place and Anet could use that to recalculate my points.

When they split up the skill hunter title, again, people retroactively got credit for that. They didn't have to go out an recapture all the skills when the titles split up amongst the campaigns. The people who had maxed that ended up with 3 complete title tracks for each continent and an additional legendary title track.

When hard mode went live in EOTN, my recollection of the details are a bit shaky here, but we were able to purchase pages for the books for the missions/dungeons that we had previously accomplished, another retroactive credit.

See the trend here? Anet had a reasonably decent track record of crediting accomplishments following a change to a title system, if there was a system in place for recording accomplishments previously. Its not about entitlements or deserving anything, it was about understanding that Anet had a certain way of doing business with respect to title changes. When they reneged or flip flopped or poo pooed or however you want to look at it with respect to the allegiance/reputation titles in this current update, its not that it left some players with a bitter taste, but questioning the decision along the lines of “umm... what's going on here?” and “that's not consistent with your other title changing updates, what gives?”

And with the people on this side of the fence having to continually combat trolls who vehemently defend the “Anet can do no wrong” position (I apologize, not all of you are trolls, and ty for your constructive criticism), well, I'll just say that you are wrong on that front. Anet does in fact make the occasional mistake, believe it or not, and albeit that this isn't a game breaking one, it does seem a little inconsistent with their track record, which is why people aren't just letting the issue die. And given the fact that Anet, at times, is receptive to feedback from the community, thus the continuing dialog on the matter in spite of the naysayers who would otherwise drown out the affected part of the community, minority or otherwise.

snaek · Nov 16, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

to be honest...
i dun think there is any way to truly make this update retroactive

sure u can see if someone has finished the missions once
but theres no way to track if they did them 5 or 6 times or over 30 or 40 times

could they not have at least made it retroactive for the 1st time over?
would that really hurt the game?

to those that have done the missions 50+times
its still unfair
but at least he gets sumptin, instead of absolutely nuthin

and there was a post a while back (p.26) to say that this update caters to -everyone-
no...it doesnt cater to everyone

why do u think many hb'ers get mad when we get supposed "pvp updates"?

Abedeus · Nov 16, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

There is a way, you just could've read at least last two pages.

If someone has Protector, give him option to refill one book.

If Guardian, two books.

/thread

snaek · Nov 16, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by abedeus

There is a way, you just could've read at least last two pages.

If someone has Protector, give him option to refill one book.

If Guardian, two books.

/thread

thats not "truly retroactive" as i was tryin to mention
its jus compensation
since if someone has done the missions 50 times
shouldnt he get teh reward 50 times?

but i do think that ppl should get compensation for 1 book at least

Abedeus · Nov 16, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

I don't think anyone has done all missions on a character once he made the title.

I mean, for EVERY protector = 1 book, for every guardian 2 books. So if someone has 2 characters with Protector and one with a Guardian, it's

1+1+2 = 4 books.

Two Guardians, Two protectors:

2+2+1+1 = 6 books.

Like this. Because if someone has already a Guardian on his character and he did all the missions for nothing again... there is something wrong with him.

upier · Nov 16, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

There is a way, you just could've read at least last two pages.

If someone has Protector, give him option to refill one book.

If Guardian, two books.

/thread

While I agree with the suggestion for this being retroactive - also keep in mind that to add a page into the book one doesn't need to obtain the bonus/masters.
Which means that if a player completed the game - they should have gotten a free filled book.

germanturkey · Nov 16, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

thinking about it more, is the 4k (or whatever low amount of gold) you get for turning in a complete book really worth my time? i'm not a title hunter and the introduction of these new books just hogs storage space (which, of course we need more of) and i have little to no motivation to beat the campaigns over again.

but mostly, the rewards given for the books is not proportional to the amount of time needed to fill them up.

smilingscar · Nov 17, 2008, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanturkey

but mostly, the rewards given for the books is not proportional to the amount of time needed to fill them up.

I agree completely. And not just the for the gold reward. These books were supposed to provide alternatives for grind, but it seems to me that they are the most inefficient way to increase our titles (unlike in EotN where turning in HM books seems relatively efficient).

For example say I want to max my lightbringer/ss title. Am I going to turn in like 5 books or am I going to farm it? Five books doesn't seem like much, but Nightfall is so much longer than EotN...I can farm over 3000 LB points an hour, so unless I could somehow finish Nightfall in 3 hours or less I don't see how this reduces my grind. And as for Factions, I don't think I could stomach doing Factions 80 times or so to max my allegiance title.

Either give me some credit for previously beating the game (just rep, keep the gold), or allow me to forgo the gold/experience from turning in a book in exchange for more rep so that maybe it'll seem worth it.

Arkantos · Nov 17, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by smilingscar

I agree completely. And not just the for the gold reward. These books were supposed to provide alternatives for grind, but it seems to me that they are the most inefficient way to increase our titles (unlike in EotN where turning in HM books seems relatively efficient).

For example say I want to max my lightbringer/ss title. Am I going to turn in like 5 books or am I going to farm it? Five books doesn't seem like much, but Nightfall is so much longer than EotN...I can farm over 3000 LB points an hour, so unless I could somehow finish Nightfall in 3 hours or less I don't see how this reduces my grind. And as for Factions, I don't think I could stomach doing Factions 80 times or so to max my allegiance title.

Either give me some credit for previously beating the game (just rep, keep the gold), or allow me to forgo the gold/experience from turning in a book in exchange for more rep so that maybe it'll seem worth it.

I think the point of the books is to reward players for playing through the game instead of just straight grind. Before you would have to farm/grind for max title, there really wasn't other good options. Now you can play through Nightfall, achieve guardian of elona, vanquish Vabbi/Desolation, complete the Domain of Anguish, and then farm/grind the rest. The books aren't meant to be farmed, they're meant to be achieved through regular gameplay.

But I agree, we should be able to get credit for previously beating the missions already.

germanturkey · Nov 17, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

^^ but anet's one large oversight is that by now, they're not getting that many new players in their game, and the vast majority of the people playing are those who have already beaten the game. so when the rewards are so slim, there's little incentive to pick up the story missions again.

had they done this 3 years ago, everyone would be on board with it, but now, not so much.