Curse

Tom Swift · Dec 25, 2008, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

edit: Not sure how many times I have to insist that SB+PS is not nearly as OP as SF.

You can keep insisting all you like, it still won't be true. I use both and in the areas where sb+sp work, it is at least as overpowered as SF. Just as in the areas where SF works it is overpowered.

The point is there are certain areas where each will work and certain areas where each won't. (far more with far greater profit where sb+sp works well than SF, by the way)

In an area where each works, they are both god-mode with guaranteed success for anyone who is experienced with them. In any area where the particular build will not work, they are utter failures guaranteeing a total wipe out.

But as long as content remains the same and mob spawns are predictable, people will find ways to beat it over and over with little or no risk of failure. if it is not SF or PB+PS it will be 3 hero discord or sabway or some other build.

I'm not actually against changing SF so it is not maintainable. But neither am I for it. But if they nerf it out of existence then I also want to see them place counters in SoO, Ooze, Ragars and Kathandrax and other areas to prevent SB + Sp. If god-mode should not exist for one then it should not exist for all.

englitdaudelin · Dec 25, 2008, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

(did I forget something?)

Yup:

Nerf Soul Reaping again so Necro/Rits aren't godly healers; Nerf Paragons in general even more;
Nerf the rest of the Dervish Avatars;
Nerf the fruitcakes so you can't outrun Grentches while delivering presents;
Nerf Candy Canes so all they do is add sweet tooth points,
Nerf Birthday Cupcakes so they make you fat,
Nerf Wintersday so it's totally lame and Grenth ALWAYS wins,
Nerf the Dwarf Boxing Chest Run / Survivor Run
Nerf Rune of Sup. Vigor
Nerf, Nerf, Nerf. Let's all suffer together.

Smurf Minions · Dec 25, 2008, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterT69

^yeah what he said, or you can just choose to play a different game, I mean its just one skill that saves a lot of us time on elite missions so I don't particularly have a problem with it.

'saves time', you aren't playing this game for fun aren't ya?

i thought that was the meaning of a game... 'fun'.... but hey, everyone likes to grind elite missions with SF and cry.. guess thats the new 'fun'.

kostolomac · Dec 25, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

I have a little suggestion:
1. Shadow Form: becomes a skill , a bit lower duration than now , but now instead of losing health your skills are disabled for a period of time.
2. SY! : increased duration , gives some health regen , but only works on allies below 50% health.
3. Spirit bond: whenever target ally takes more than 60 damage from the next 10 attacks or Spells, those attacks or spells are negated.
4. Prot spirit : triggers only 3 times per second.
5. Obsi flesh: you gain +20 armor and cannot be the target of enemy Spells that cause earth or fire damage, but move 50% slower.

This should solve godmode problems.

Quote:

i thought that was the meaning of a game... 'fun'.... but hey, everyone likes to grind elite missions with SF and cry.. guess thats the new 'fun'.

Fun is very subjective , but the beauty of GW pve is that nobody can impact your gameplay unless you let him. If you like SF Cryway , do it; if you like h/h do it; if you like playing something completely different with your buddies do it. Nobody can stop you from that unless you let them. That's why GW pve is awesome , play how you want and let others do the same.

[DE] · Dec 25, 2008, 03:24 PM // 15:24

As Avarre said, the 'I'm not touching you argument is terrible'

People keep on insisting that sb+ps are better than sf. We're talking about group pve here, not solo farms - not to mention they still aren't as op as sf, even in solo play. Sure 600 can farm a few dead dungeons and parts of the UW but sf can farm ecto the fastest, solo just as many other spots just as fast, AND is much better suited for a tank role in group play.

Merry Christmas Riverside

kostolomac · Dec 25, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

As Avarre said, the 'I'm not touching you argument is terrible'

The second part of my post was directed to the people who think that they must play how pugs tell them. This was not directed about balance of pve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

People keep on insisting that sb+ps are better than sf. We're talking about group pve here, not solo farms - not to mention they still aren't as op as sf, even in solo play. Sure 600 can farm a few dead dungeons and parts of the UW but sf can farm ecto the fastest, solo just as many other spots just as fast, AND is much better suited for a tank role in group play.

So , other godmodes are ok since the they aren't as op as SF? I say kill all of them.

cloud widowmaker · Dec 25, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Just make it so SF reduces 100% of your damage, specially because i don't see a shadow hitting me that often =p, this way it can't be used to farm almost everywhere real easily, but stays as one of the best tanking builds there are, thus making it possible to farm with it with dual teams (monks can do it, why not sins?) and maintain cryway, which i don't see any problem as it's a team organized build, but can still be nerfed by nerfing some of the cryers builds.

[DE] · Dec 25, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Other godmode skills do need to be nerfed - but this thread isn't about SY or any other current godmode skill, hence why, I didn't mention them. Saying PS and Sb are godmode is a joke when comparing them to the likes of sy and sf

Bug John · Dec 25, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20

I guess I'll never get why people are so arrogant on these boards.

Stop trying to influence others gameplay when they're not influencing yours.

You won't make pugs better by hitting anything you don't like with the nerfbat.

It's the same everywhere, a minority of arrogant and selfish people pretend to know what's good for others better than anyone else, and want to impose ideas they can't have adopted by the community.

Actually, there were more players disappointed by the ursan nerf than happy about it. And if they were honest, those who were in favor of an ursan nerf would recognize that things are not better now :
- prices gone up ? no
- more successful balanced pugs in elite areas ? no
- pve'ers are now more skilled ? no

Maybe you should take some time to think about the consequences of what you're asking for, before asking for it. And maybe you should stop acting like spoiled arrogant children...

Abedeus · Dec 25, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

- prices gone up ? no
- more successful balanced pugs in elite areas ? no
- pve'ers are now more skilled ? no

Because:

1. Prices did go up until people started abusing SF. Even more, that is, because SF was overpowered before.
2. Why run balanced, when you can abuse the hell out of something dead easy.
3. See 1 and 2.

Quote:

And maybe you should stop acting like spoiled arrogant children...

Right now, the only arrogant child afraid of losing it's toy is you.

AKB48 · Dec 25, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan__ryan

If you guys are so pissed off at stupid brainless pugs join or form a knowledgable and dedicated guild/alliance to avoid pugs all together... Also about SF... Why is there so much hate? It's a skill that can benefit your group in pve... I don't see any monsters permaing! Bottom line, if you want to avoid stupid ppl that can only play in cryway groups join a guild and cmon SF is a skill that will benefit your team!!! Now stop fighting!!!!!!

So according to you then the Ursan "nerf" was a bad thing then, afterall, it is a skill that can benefit your group in pve. And no, I don't see any monsters Ursaning!

Bottomline, SF need to be changed, the way it is now merely gives the ignorant and the stupid a chance to get something valuable in GW. If it's a few ppl sfing, idk personally, i even use it from time to time. But go to a place like the DoA/UW/any elite area you can think of, I guaratee you that you will see parties composed of permas-it has become a costume in play elite areas. "Hey we are doing Foundary" "ok, I will get on my perma, brb"
That's how things is now.

If you like SF merely because of its simplicity, well, that speaks alot about your personalities as well.

Skyy High · Dec 25, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

The problem here is the interaction of things, or more specifically GWEN. Glyph of Swiftness and consumables made certain things permanent - things that should never have been. This is NOT an oversight, but a design decision on ANet's part.

I disagree with that. Considering the other ability that the Glyph has is to speed up projectile attacks, I think they just didn't even think of the possibility of maintained SF, and just meant it as a nice skill for eles to improve a spell or two. Oops.

Bug John · Dec 25, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Because:

1. Prices did go up until people started abusing SF. Even more, that is, because SF was overpowered before.
2. Why run balanced, when you can abuse the hell out of something dead easy.
3. See 1 and 2.

Right now, the only arrogant child afraid of losing it's toy is you.

could you try to be honest please ? and use precise examples to prove me I'm wrong

let's talk about doa a little : after ursan nerf, it's now impossible to find a pug (I heard things about cryway pugs in german districts, but I have yet to see one of them), you NEED a guild

don't you understand that you can take off whatever you want from the game, you can't force people to play what you want them to play, they'll stop playing or find another cookie cutter build

let's take a look at the price of armbraces now :
- did ursan drive it down ? yes, but it was going down anyway long time before ursan abuse
- did it go up after ursan nerf ? no, after hom update

and no, I'm not afraid of "losing my toy", I don't even pve anymore, I don't care what happens to sf or other skills, I just can't stand your attitude

people don't force you to play the way they want, so why do you want to ?

anyway, I'll be kind, and help you clarify the problem : you feel like you're good at the game because you don't use skills that you find too cheap... but there's nothing in game for you to show off your superiority over player that do use these skills, and that really pisses you off

stop trying to show off, stick to personal accomplishments, play for yourself and your friends, and you'll enjoy your game experience, just like I do

Athrun Feya · Dec 25, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloud widowmaker

Just make it so SF reduces 100% of your damage.

This isn't actually strictly true in most elite areas, even with a combination of Bonders, skills like Armor of Earth and the old Angelic Bond (depending on what is more suitable in that area). This becomes obviously more important the larger group you're dealing with.

Urgoz: 100 blades and degen in some rooms
Deep: Not very SF friendly whatsoever. Chilblains, Death Nova, Putrid Explosion from outcast and expunge enchantments on the Freezing Nightmares. No Enchant + no spell casting aspects.
FoW: Magno Hydra AoE, Spirit Shepherd AoE - mostly avoidable but not totally.
DoA: Environment effects, dervish Margonite, Dementia Titans, Stygian Horrors.

Armbrace prices did raise slightly after ursan was nerfed although not to their original cost. Many people anticipated the addition of Tormented weapons to the HoM, hoping the cost would increase when there was a demand for more armbraces. As a lot of people did this there was a large supply of armbraces around at the time, resulting in no increase at all and that price has just stuck.

Speed clears are more heavily reliant on tactics to increase speed than single builds or skills. In the case of UW the split+solo is just a tactic that (to an extend) was being formed far before SF was maintainable and one thats more commonly known in the community than DoA/FoW/Urgoz/Deep SCs.

A11Eur0 · Dec 25, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

Other godmode skills do need to be nerfed - but this thread isn't about SY or any other current godmode skill, hence why, I didn't mention them. Saying PS and Sb are godmode is a joke when comparing them to the likes of sy and sf

Why can't you answer my challenge to list areas for both builds?

Why is Perma so much more OP just because it's used in a group setting? Obviously perma isn't 'GodMode' because you NEED that group to do anything more than run and farm raptors/vaettir, meanwhile you can take 2-3 characters and finish elite dungeons. Easily. In a half hour sometimes. Permas have their places in these dungeons...but there is no dungeon that a single assassin with shadow form can complete on his own, and these elite dungeons are where the most valuable weapons in the game drop. So you'd rather people NOT perma, thus NOT group up, and resort to farming with solo/duo builds?

You're starting to sound desperate. Give some specifics for once how SF is so much more overpowered than 600/smite. Please.

Seems to me like people don't want other people to play the way they want in their grind-fest of a game. Or maybe you don't want people to all have the same max titles as you when they didn't "work" for them? What's your definition of work? Sitting in Spamadan turning 10k into 500k in a day by powertrading? Doing the same things over and over again to make money? Chest running for hours just for treasure hunter, lucky, unlucky? Farming ectos for their armor or to buy something else they want that costs 2304808234 of them?

Killing farms won't get rid of high prices, it won't get rid of power traders, it won't make fewer people have obsidian armor and chaos gloves...it's not going to prevent the cheapening of your titles, and why? Because the money is already on the market, it's just being pushed around from player to player. It's not really going anywhere....any money sinks that occur I'd say are made up for simply by the constant input of money into the game. It's that simple.

Why do you want it to go away so badly? I really don't understand why you feel the need to tell other people how they should want to play guild wars.

Robbert Monga · Dec 25, 2008, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

Stop trying to influence others gameplay when they're not influencing yours.

That's an absolute lie. I can't even get into group with my imbagon any more, forget any normal build. How is that not an influence? Sure I can go and play cryer, but it is still incredibly stupid and degrading.
Nice try on defensive stance though, too bad black aint white.

A11Eur0 · Dec 25, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

^^^join a guild that doesn't run cryway. It's that simple. If you're in a guild and you're loyal, get your guildies to run balanced or physical. If there's not enough, join an alliance that runs balanced or physical. Stop being lazy and ruining other peoples' fun just because you can't join your precious pugs.

Abedeus · Dec 25, 2008, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

eople don't force you to play the way they want, so why do you want to ?

You could just as well start with that sentense. I would know that the whole post reminds me of something... OOOH RIGHT

"Don't nerf ursan, don't force people to play the way they want QQ MOAN MOAN".

So sorry we care about keeping shreds of balance and trying to restore some of it back to PvE, so there might be any challenge at all.

Quote:

they'll stop playing

Playing =/= buttonmashing with your forehead till you explode all enemies.

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let's take a look at the price of armbraces now :
- did ursan drive it down ? yes, but it was going down anyway long time before ursan abuse
- did it go up after ursan nerf ? no, after hom update

Yep, they did go up after ursan nerf AND hom update, then got quiet again.

Too bad that even if value of armbraces was going down, as with anything in this universe, Ursan sped up this process more than a bucket of burning acid.

kostolomac · Dec 25, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

That's an absolute lie. I can't even get into group with my imbagon any more, forget any normal build. How is that not an influence? Sure I can go and play cryer, but it is still incredibly stupid and degrading.
Nice try on defensive stance though, too bad black aint white.

Same crap , different package.

On point , don't look for pugs , make one. My brother made a tank'n'spank group that had splinter barragers instead of eles. With pugs you need to have lots of time and patience. Join a guild , or make friends that like playing the game in the same style as you.

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So sorry we care about keeping shreds of balance and trying to restore some of it back to PvE, so there might be any challenge at all.

No balance can bring back the challenge , only new content can.

Bug John · Dec 26, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

That's an absolute lie. I can't even get into group with my imbagon any more, forget any normal build. How is that not an influence? Sure I can go and play cryer, but it is still incredibly stupid and degrading.
Nice try on defensive stance though, too bad black aint white.

nerfing cry/sf groups won't make it easier for you to find groups with your paragon

why don't you admit that killing something isn't the best way to promote another ?
killing something will only encourage people to find even more broken substitutes, or just give up

they killed ursan, and now we have uw speed clears, things got better indeed...

why don't you spend your time talking about buffs or changes that would make the game more interesting instead of asking here for a nerf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

You could just as well start with that sentense. I would know that the whole post reminds me of something... OOOH RIGHT

"Don't nerf ursan, don't force people to play the way they want QQ MOAN MOAN".

So sorry we care about keeping shreds of balance and trying to restore some of it back to PvE, so there might be any challenge at all.

Playing =/= buttonmashing with your forehead till you explode all enemies.

Yep, they did go up after ursan nerf AND hom update, then got quiet again.

Too bad that even if value of armbraces was going down, as with anything in this universe, Ursan sped up this process more than a bucket of burning acid.

first, stop with your "omg, you're just QQing", this is really irrelevant and useless, if you want to debate over something and not just troll, I can do both, as you wish

there's a balance in something when there's interaction between groups of players, that doesn't exist in pve

the only way there could be interactions between groups is in the trade panel, and, although you won't admit it, prices were more influenced by a huge lack of demand (gw is an old game now) than by ursan

pve = button mashing, there's random button mashing or organised and experienced one
you can change whatever skills you want, pve is about killing mindless monsters, not outsmarting your opponents