Curse

Issac · Dec 07, 2008, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Asl long as it's as easy to gain levels now they can bump it up a good amount. If it takes a week and a half they need to keep it low lol.

Jenn · Dec 07, 2008, 02:23 AM // 02:23

I liked the level 20 cap.
I liked that GW was different.

Rexion · Dec 07, 2008, 02:46 AM // 02:46

I say 9001.....

so that it's OVER 9000!!!!

Issac · Dec 07, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49

You never know they might make it really really high. That way they'll still be different lol.

afya · Dec 07, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Played 2months or so WAR and here is what I don't like(or what GW is better imo):
(I played no WoW before, just GW & WAR)

1) [email protected] isn't that high but still need some grind there, which is not quite my style.

2) separate server as usual MMO. However, I think GW's international gameplay is the best.

3) Classes not so balanced. As melee DPS and has caster armors, easily get killed within 5 secs.

4) The story not so clear. only some random quest like what you find in GW town, which I don't care much and just do the objectives.
GW's main missions are gd to bring out the story imo.

5) single profession and unlimited skill slots. ppl in the same class have similar 3/4 builds. Less imagination of making new build.

Sry if off-topic so much.

Aera Lure · Dec 07, 2008, 04:11 AM // 04:11

I say 100. Period. Nice round number.

Reason being, without levels I found after a time the game started to get dull. I could make another character and do the same things over again. I could farm. I could simply play with other people doing random things just because I enjoyed playing with other people. I could join a guild and work towards some common things and help those within the guild. I could collect skins of weapons and/or armor.

Did all that and really enjoyed it, but honestly, I settled into a favorite character profession and then started to miss character progression. Titles came about to try and fill that role, but they offered no real value in my eyes. I pursued many and enjoyed that as well. It set a goal to activity and something to do with a good friend, but for me, beyond that, they didnt offer anything. I dont expect anything of real value from them in GW2 of similar value to the tons of hours I was investing into a character, which disillusioned me on titles and, ultimately, on playing at all.

I got my fair share of gaming from Guild Wars certainly. Loved it. So dont get me wrong. The concept was brilliant at the outset.

What I think I would try now is something like this:

Level cap at 100. Levels 1-20 are effectively just like Guild Wars is now. Granted, stats and all that may be different, but one plays though the game making major strides in ability and character development through to level 20. Level 20 is when you can PvP and its when more of the game opens up to you.

Beyond level 20 is higher character progression. Stat growth is slower, but there is some. This only has effect on PvE. PvP remains played at level 20 stats, with weapons that are capped stat-wise, as GW is now. There, however, remains within the PvE realm weapons that can go beyond the PvP limit, so there is value in seeking out rarer and potentially more powerful things in addition to skin types, instead of just skin types. Same applies for armor.

There would be no AI. No heroes or henchmen. One, however, can still solo. Groups would have the ability to move through an area faster, possibly getting a better exp rate. They could also enter tougher areas due to obviously more players with them. A lone player could enter any area solo. They wouldnt be able to take on larger mobs right away, but they could in easier areas, or take on smaller groups of tougher enemies. Thing is here they could eventually level up enough so that they could do what a lower level group could, at some point being very formidable on their own. The choice is there then to play how one wishes, but group play is also encouraged and has its benefits. What should not be lost of course is the ability of a creative build to further aid someone in soloing better than someone of the same level with a generic build. Strategy and construction of build as envisioned in GW remains.

A player who only wants to get to level 20 and then enjoy the game would never need to "grind." They could simply go off and solo whatever they like, within reason, or go with a group to areas they cant solo. There would be no level discrimination due to the buddy system that averages out player group levels in some fashion, so lower level players could join and be effective. The lower level player would then earn experience at a better rate simply by playing what they wish and it wouldnt be grinding. There would always be that element there though of level progression for those who enjoy it and those who wish to do high end soloing as a goal.

I'm not fond of skill packs for purchase. I met and helped many PvP players get through certain parts of the game to get certain skills back in Prophecies days. The mix within the game of player types was fun, rather then the almost complete segregation we have now. Other game elements in my opinion should stay: 8 skill slots or similar for creative and selective builds; many skills to find and try to put to use; ability to play solo or with others; ability to take PvE character into PvP.

It would require excellent balancing, which in the last year or more I havent seen as much of from Anet, so it remains to be seen if it could be pulled off well. It would seem to require more dynamic mobs, rather than static mob sets as we have now. It would certainly require more frequent content updates. Maybe sub-chapters about the size of Sorrow's Furnace - dungeons, hidden forests etc - optional areas that can be purchased in between the release of full chapters.

With no AI it would also require a huge improvement in communication features. Mail so you can leave a short message with someone that they can get when they log in. A true global party search and recruiting system. Possibly a hub city from which you can access main areas of the game so "in-person" group forming would have a place to go, rather than standing in a less populated mission area. Better incentives for replaying things you have already completed. Level progression is an obvious thing here and more experience in this system is an encouragement of its own, but there may be others. Possibly a boon to a higher level player adopting a "buddy" for a bit so the game doesnt eventually devolve into low level players doing their thing and high level players farming.

Really in this system though, one does not have to specifically grind out levels. One would sometimes presumably need to play with others, unless they steadfastly leveled on their own, which should be made possible, just not as fast. Thing is, here it would be as it was in Prophecies days and even better, since with no AI, everyone would need to be better at group play since that is where efficiency and speed lay, so there is self-policing. Just add to that better party controls for the group leader.

There's questions and issues that would need to be solved, sure, and possibly I didnt describe something well enough, but my point is simply I can envision a game that has level and character progression without requiring it, the ability to play alone while group play remains active, and a world that always has surprises to find as opposed to simply flatlining out into having been there and done that, while still being "free" (it simply uses chapters, but also more frequent sub-chapters - all optional).

Sort of wonder if it would ever happen, but I can envision it.

pamelf · Dec 07, 2008, 10:17 AM // 10:17

People seem to be under the impression that adding more levels will increase gameplay. I just really don't get where this notion comes from...whether the level cap is 20 or 100 the game content is still going to be the exact same. With the game we currently have we could have had a level cap of 50 (speaking only from prophecies) and reached it just before the end of the game, but as we reached 20 relatively early on we simply did the same content, but with a capped level. The gameplay would have been no different had we had higher levels or kept the way it is. Higher levels does not necessarily come with a longer game, or more content. I just really don't understand where the appeal to more levels lies other than to show off how high your numbers are...

Enon · Dec 07, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

I just really don't get where this notion comes from...whether the level cap is 20 or 100 the game content is still going to be the exact same.

Wrong. If health/energy/attribute points are related to level, then the game is going to be different. Instead of the game being about builds/skills, it's going to be about level, which is extremely lame for the casual and non-grinding players.

I can honestly say I hate grinding to get the most out of my character. I did it once back when I played MxO. At some point I kept doing mission after mission just to get my character to 50. It was boring as hell and I'll never do it again.

No, just no...

Dan Ops · Dec 07, 2008, 11:56 AM // 11:56

I don't get why you people QQ about the level cap so much. I'm pretty sure (and actually Anet has stated if memory serves) that there will be no grinding for level. What's the difference anyway whether the level caps at 20 or 100 as long as you get the max during storyline. Also, in GW1 at least in NF & Factions, you get max level within 2 or 3 first missions out of 14/20. Imo it's good thing that you play longer as non max level and get the max let's say after half of the storyline or so like in Prophecies. But no level cap is just meh, it's so damn stupid and will surely lead to grinding even tho there was no benefits for more levels.

Crom The Pale · Dec 07, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

I like the idea of no level cap, but a cap on player power.

Think of it like this. What if your lvl determined your HP/Energy but only up to a certain point. So from 1-25 your HP/E increase until you hit max at lvl 25.

Now for lvl 26+ your level will determine what skins your character can equip as far as armor and weapons. Talking purely cosmetic, all the same max stats as the basic armor.

If the game is balanced there is no reason to increase your lvl beyond a certain point other than to aquire cosmetic advantages, the same can be said of cash in game. Once you can purchase max armor and weapons you have 0 need for money.

Enon · Dec 07, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Assuming you can still farm in GW2, wouldn't a higher level cap give certain professions an advantage over others? Even if we're talking pure cosmetics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craywulf

Instead focusing on how much xp you need to go up a level, it should be more focused on the type of skills you use. So lets say you kill 500 Charr using Illusion about 90% of the kills, Your Illusion attribute would go up a point or two.

So a monk simply walks outside, puts a heavy weight on key '1', starts spamming a healing spell and then goes to bed. No, just no... They had a system like this in Fly for Fun and all though it does have it's advantage, it's also easily abused.

Abedeus · Dec 07, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

So a monk simply walks outside, puts a heavy weight on key '1', starts spamming a healing spell and then goes to bed. No, just no... They had a system like this in Fly for Fun and all though it does have it's advantage, it's also easily abused.

Make attribute rise only if healing actually heals damage.

/problem.

Enon · Dec 07, 2008, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Make attribute rise only if healing actually heals damage.

I'm sure there'll be spells that don't heal, like protection prayers. What about those? And would Spirit Light spamming add to the attribute, seeing as you sacrifice health first? Other than that, you can simply cast a sacrifice spell first and then heal the damage. What about creating spirits? Weapons spells? Or skills such as Warrior's Endurance or Lightning Reflexes? Aura of Restoration?

Abedeus · Dec 07, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Then Protective Prayers will give exp when a foe is attacking and dealing damage (evade/block won't count) and it prevents damage taken.

Creating spirits - more like when they damage enemies. You will train the spirits themselves, while increasing the attribute.

Spirit Light - it's a healing spell, so only when it heals DAMAGE.

Sacrifice doesn't count as a damage. Besides, game has a way of checking who dealt the damage.

Weapon spells - using charges/attacking enemy with them.

WE - Gaining energy only when you don't have maximum already. LR after blocking. AoR healing when damaged by enemy.

Problem solved with a bit of thinking.

Crom The Pale · Dec 07, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Then Protective Prayers will give exp when a foe is attacking and dealing damage (evade/block won't count) and it prevents damage taken.

So now I just take my char to a zone with low lvl monsters that only deal 2-5 dmg vs me and auto heal till I can get a full heal.

Creating spirits - more like when they damage enemies. You will train the spirits themselves, while increasing the attribute.

Again, set up a spirit in a zone with weak foes, have it attack then zone and repeat with bot for massively powerful spirits

Spirit Light - it's a healing spell, so only when it heals DAMAGE.
See my first point.

Sacrifice doesn't count as a damage. Besides, game has a way of checking who dealt the damage.

Weapon spells - using charges/attacking enemy with them.

WE - Gaining energy only when you don't have maximum already. LR after blocking. AoR healing when damaged by enemy.

Problem solved with a bit of thinking.

An entire new set of problems created with a bit of thinking.....

Enon · Dec 07, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

(evade/block won't count)

But Guardian gives an ally a 50% to block...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

An entire new set of problems created with a bit of thinking.....

I think that could be fixed by assigning a level range to an area.

Bah, point being... Err... I'm sure there are ways to avoid abuse, but it would get to complicated in the end... Plus, I still believe there's a way to afk spam certain skills.

Just keep the damn level 20 cap! It's perfect for casual gamers and hardcore grinders since level in this game means shit. Just make it so that it takes a bit longer to get there.

Kurt · Dec 07, 2008, 09:36 PM // 21:36

You all want to play an RPG but don't want to train for levels?

Enon · Dec 07, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

That's why we like GW so much =3

Traveller · Dec 07, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

How about they ditch the whole concept of RPG levels as we know it? From what I've been gathering, I think they might do a system like this with their "unlimited levels" approach. Your skills and stats get better if you use them, not with arbitrary attribute speccing.

Lomi79 · Dec 07, 2008, 10:07 PM // 22:07

20 is enough.
I played war for 2 months and 40 is tooo much for me really it is soo much grind ffs boring as hell.
OR they could do it with no lvls like in Darkfall and that would be epic imo