Curse

cataphract · Feb 16, 2009, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

oO and for people who think hM is pointless - PvP says hi!!!

To me, it's PvP that's pointless. And HM is somewhere between boring and frustrating. Then again, I've been playing this game for ages now. I have no idea what to do once I've finished my second GWAMM.

PvP? LOL, seriously.

street peddler · Feb 16, 2009, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

To me, it's PvP that's pointless. And HM is somewhere between boring and frustrating. Then again, I've been playing this game for ages now. I have no idea what to do once I've finished my second GWAMM.

PvP? LOL, seriously.

well maybe you should try it..seeing as this game completely thrives on it.

Dr.Jones · Feb 16, 2009, 08:01 AM // 08:01

from what i read from the ops post, is that he does not have a problem with hard mode he has a problem with pve skills. and i think his main problem is he wants people to play classes exactly how he likes to play them in pve. notice how he does not say anything about a rit running a rit lighting spike or a ele ruining a earth build ect. so sadly for him that is not how the game is made its made to support many different types of game play. and i for one like Vampirism along with one of the best pve skills for a rit: Summon Spirits (though i think and thought that was how Draw Spirit was suppose to work this was way before summon spirits came out and tried it for my self and was disappointed in what i found, and wish thats how they would change draw sprit and then make summon spirits do like half cast time i have found that it just takes way to long for a spirit to be cast, and to be useful in pve ie everything is dead before it gets up...)

lethalshot · Feb 16, 2009, 08:01 AM // 08:01

HM with 8-man could be a challenge no?
Or just play Pee Vee Pee, funny, cool, and no more nerf from what i see.

zwei2stein · Feb 16, 2009, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvrod

My bad, I guess I just haven't learned anything since beta.

Don't worry. You are not alone in your plight. Many people managed same feat.

hoovehand · Feb 16, 2009, 10:54 AM // 10:54

PvE skills make the game boring, i agree with that.

they're completely unbalanced and totally ruin the game. save yourselves? what the hell were arenanet thinking? hooray for the skill that reduces damage taken by 80% on the whole party and can be kept up forever unless the AI is smart enough to disrupt it (tee hee).

kostolomac · Feb 16, 2009, 11:06 AM // 11:06

HM is really boring, it's not the pve skills , it's the design of HM itself. You are fighting the same mobs with the same skillbars , only twice as powerful. And if that is not enough you need to kill every single enemy on the map so that the game acknowledges you knowing how to play in HM.
I only play HM areas when I want to massacre stuff.

Sword Hammer Axe · Feb 16, 2009, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Yes, it is. Really, really, mind-numbingly boring.

Right, lets make this simple... Titles are all there is left to do in GW PVE for most people. To get a sufficient number of titles or even just to max some, requires playing in HM.

So all those "play in NM" people should just get a grip. He's not saying it's too hard, he's saying it's boring. Which it is. Which you would know, if you had Legendary Guardian on a ranger, and had to repeatedly grind HM Handbooks to max silly EoTN titles, since VQ is way too slow.

Believe me, it is. Many of the dungeons in EoTN are either a ) only runable with a gimmick build or b) require mass use of consets. If a decent balanced team can't beat a dungeon reliably, there is a serious, serious issue. Hard Mode should be hard, not virtually impossible. And yes, we could all get a permasin tank and pretty much tank and spank everything. Wow, that's original...and equally boring. But that also requires playing with other people. And, in that case, I think I'd rather play something else. Could always finish FF7 thru 12 (bar 11) again, I suppose..

Try to tell me the Blooming Nettles in Bogroots are balanced in HM, I dare you. On the other hand, if everyone has spotless mind and condition removal, you can just run straight past the entire room of mobs....in HM...

And the fact that a large portion of normal skills are almost totally useless in HM IS a problem.

If you seriously can't see how super stat-pumping was a mindlessly stupid way to implement HM, then that says a lot about you. Giving mobs better builds and balanced teams would have been a better start.

1: Titles only thing left to do? Glad you said for most people otherwise it's bullshit. Even there I think it's wrong because I know hell loada people who doesn't care about titles at all. I do plenty of things without titles to have fun myself. I kill random things (HM and NM), I do dungeons, I trade and chat, I farm, I PvP, I also get titles but even if they weren't there I wouldn't be bored at all.

2: He's saying it's boring BECAUSE it's too hard. He is saying that he would rather kill random things with heavy damage than play HM. He doesn't say anything about only fun things being the titles part.

3: Oh you can't do dungeons in other ways? Well then maybe it's more because you aren't a very inventive player isn't it? Don't blame HM for the things YOU fail at. If it's too tough play on NM.

4: I really can't see the problem. I can see that you want HARD mode to be A LITTLE HARDER THAN NORMAL MODE BUT ALMOST THE SAME mode.
Personally I think if anything there should be a HARDER mode. HM is fun, I don't have any troubles vanquishing, I use my own builds and I do just as well as any super perma build I've seen. Maybe I use 10-15 mins more with my own builds, but who cares? As long as I think it's fun. GW is a game to be played for fun and if you don't think it is then you clearly are missing the point of gaming in general. A lot of people likes a challenge and THAT'S what HM is for.

tasha · Feb 16, 2009, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

So all those "play in NM" people should just get a grip. He's not saying it's too hard, he's saying it's boring. Which it is. Which you would know, if you had Legendary Guardian on a ranger, and had to repeatedly grind HM Handbooks to max silly EoTN titles, since VQ is way too slow.

As a primary Ranger on my way to GWAMM I have to disagree with you. If its boring, change your build. Change how you approach it. Or don't do it. I must have tried about 15 different builds while doing Hard Mode, from the most retarded pet build that wasn't meant to work (except it did) to a nearly pure interrupting build (no BHA, was worried at how bad I'd gotten at dshotting stuff). Part of the fun was juggling the skills around to find different. Some worked, some didn't. I played on my own, with a full guild team, randoms and in between. The rep titles I ground like everyone else - but there really wasn't a lot to grind after having cleared everything vanquishing, doing the quests and generally exploring the game.

You can have fun in HM, just mucking about (for the record, vanquishing naked doesn't work :P ). If you're looking for the most efficient way of killing stuff then yeah thats boring, cos you're gonna be using the same build nearly every area (hi BHA).

I think you're also missing why people are saying "play NM". If HM isn't working out for you then there's nothing making you do it. Stick to NM if that gives you your kicks, or accept that it isn't something that you like doing but you want the titles so do it anyway. And thats an ok thing to do -I don't like playing Necro or Mesmer as they're not my thing, but I play them anyway cos they're different and its nice having an excuse for failing.

End of the day if you find something boring and you're choosing to spend your free time doing it, you're doing something wrong. Change it.

cataphract · Feb 16, 2009, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovehand

PvE skills make the game boring, i agree with that.

they're completely unbalanced and totally ruin the game. save yourselves? what the hell were arenanet thinking? hooray for the skill that reduces damage taken by 80% on the whole party and can be kept up forever unless the AI is smart enough to disrupt it (tee hee).

IMHO, overpowered HM monsters warrant the use of PvE-only skills.

Anwyn · Feb 16, 2009, 01:40 PM // 13:40

To all those saying how the OP sucks and how he needs to get better at PVE... I have a Paragon and want to do Urgoz HM... What builds can I use? What about DoA? What builds for there? *Crowd responds: IMBAGON! What otehr builds? *Crowd responds: IMBAGON or roll a perma or cryer!

I think this is what the OP is getting at... HM has limited what people can play as with their chars... I think when it gets to elite missions tho, you're limited, but then again, are you doing DoA to have fun, or to make huge as money and wicked cool drops??? hmmmm... Most people are there for the drops, guarenteed!

I personally think HM is wicked cool, I love vanquishing and trying new H/H combinations to do it... I also alter my builds and run gimmicks like my axe paragon, or sword ranger, or spear warrior... I have no issues dealing damage, even running my axe on my paragon, and that's not the most "leet meta" combo for PVE gons...

zwei2stein · Feb 16, 2009, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anwyn

To all those saying how the OP sucks and how he needs to get better at PVE... I have a Paragon and want to do Urgoz HM... What builds can I use? What about DoA? What builds for there? *Crowd responds: IMBAGON! What otehr builds? *Crowd responds: IMBAGON or roll a perma or cryer!

I think this is what the OP is getting at... HM has limited what people can play as with their chars... I think when it gets to elite missions tho, you're limited, but then again, are you doing DoA to have fun, or to make huge as money and wicked cool drops??? hmmmm... Most people are there for the drops, guarenteed!

I personally think HM is wicked cool, I love vanquishing and trying new H/H combinations to do it... I also alter my builds and run gimmicks like my axe paragon, or sword ranger, or spear warrior... I have no issues dealing damage, even running my axe on my paragon, and that's not the most "leet meta" combo for PVE gons...

See, you can make non-meta builds work and even have fun with them. Because they can work. You don't let yourself to be limited by preconception how character is supposed to play if you want to have fun.

OP Whines that can't use his (meta) NM build anymore in HM and that PvE only skills don't help him make it work. He basically wants "leet meta" not only to exist, but also to accommodate whatever he thinks about how eles are supposed to work.

I hope you see difference between yourself and him.

Robbert Monga · Feb 16, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

to all you wise guys out there: HM is not hard. There is major difference between hard and annoying. Hard implies competition, which HM NPCs do not provide. All they do is cheat you by having super high HP, AL, damage and cheat skills. All you do is cheat them back by using broken PvE skills and abusing their AI.
Don't give yourself too much credit for beating HM in the game of cheats, while OP refused to do so.

EDIT: o and before next forum troll decides to label me HM loser: FYI I was one of the very first people get Legendary Vanquisher after it came out... way before your PvE skills and consumables (i.e. handicap support).

Sword Hammer Axe · Feb 16, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

to all you wise guys out there: HM is not hard. There is major difference between hard and annoying. Hard implies competition, which HM NPCs do not provide. All they do is cheat you by having super high HP, AL, damage and cheat skills. All you do is cheat them back by using broken PvE skills and abusing their AI.
Don't give yourself too much credit for beating HM in the game of cheats, while OP refused to do so.

EDIT: o and before next forum troll decides to label me HM loser: FYI I was one of the very first people get Legendary Vanquisher after it came out... way before your PvE skills and consumables (i.e. handicap support).

I don't understand ... Exactly how is having more HP, AL, Dmg and higher skill levels cheating? How do you cheat them back by killing them? OMG YOU'RE STRONGER THAN ME! CHEATER!

Robbert Monga · Feb 16, 2009, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

I don't understand ... Exactly how is having more HP, AL, Dmg and higher skill levels cheating? How do you cheat them back by killing them? OMG YOU'RE STRONGER THAN ME! CHEATER!

Is that a new trend to ask questions that are also their own answer?

Red Sonya · Feb 16, 2009, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Play Anarchy Online + Notum Wars for free then. We all know GW1 is dead and boring, so, come on over to some new fun and I'll give you some weapons and stuff for free.

trankle · Feb 16, 2009, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

to all you wise guys out there: HM is not hard. There is major difference between hard and annoying. Hard implies competition, which HM NPCs do not provide. All they do is cheat you by having super high HP, AL, damage and cheat skills. All you do is cheat them back by using broken PvE skills and abusing their AI.
Don't give yourself too much credit for beating HM in the game of cheats, while OP refused to do so.

Fair enough, but the OP isn't complaining because PvE skills feel like cheating; he's complaining because the PvE skills available to his Ele don't let him feel like he's "cheating" enough, relative to the "cheating" he feels like other classes get to do.

He's not taking a noble stand against the dumbing down of the game or anything. He's wishing he could nuke stuff.

A HM that consisted of balanced fights against highly intelligent AI seems to be a nightmare scenario based on the OP's post.

Tyla · Feb 16, 2009, 07:12 PM // 19:12

I thought this was going to be a valid point and decent discussion. I guess my optimism proves useless in this respect.

Robbert Monga · Feb 16, 2009, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Fair enough, but the OP isn't complaining because PvE skills feel like cheating; he's complaining because the PvE skills available to his Ele don't let him feel like he's "cheating" enough, relative to the "cheating" he feels like other classes get to do.

He's not taking a noble stand against the dumbing down of the game or anything. He's wishing he could nuke stuff.

A HM that consisted of balanced fights against highly intelligent AI seems to be a nightmare scenario based on the OP's post.

I stand corrected... Get too excited playing devil's advocate at times

EDIT: Though you must agree eles are pretty weak in HM. I mean I don't mind whole support damage + support role, but it would've been nice if cost and usability of so called nukes reflected their real effect.

FoxBat · Feb 16, 2009, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Heroes are extremely build-sensitive though. Changing just one skill on their bar can lead to success or failure. So many not-bad or even strong bars they simply do not have the intelligence to play correctly, and you need a lot of patience to experiment and get anything good going. For most people, these are half your team, and what build they run is therefore more important than whatever you're running.

Also, it's not really hard mode that is making monsters so much harder to kill compared to high-end normal. Well unless there are healer AIs around. It's more that their higher threat leaves less tolerance for inefficiency, and more need for defense.