Curse

RedNova88 · Mar 17, 2009, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Rather than nerf it into hell why not get creative and change it's mechanics for PvP if it's so bad? I lose respect for them when I learn this was done deliberately to shun anyone in PvP from using it, which was already blatantly obvious. I understand class and skill balance is... well... A balancing act, but don't drop a boulder on one side and leave it like that.

Arkantos · Mar 17, 2009, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNova88

Rather than nerf it into hell why not get creative and change it's mechanics for PvP if it's so bad? I lose respect for them when I learn this was done deliberately to shun anyone in PvP from using it, which was already blatantly obvious. I understand class and skill balance is... well... A balancing act, but don't drop a boulder on one side and leave it like that.

Apparently you didn't read this link posted above you.

Izzy wanted it gone fast. The balance team couldn't come up with a reasonable change fast enough, so they killed it. They may consider trying to make it usable. With over a thousand skills in this game, smiter's boon really isn't a priority. They should try balancing the game now (like Lingering Curse, Warrior's Endurance, etc) before they try and make this skill usable in PvP.

In the end, making this skill was a mistake, and they really could care less.

RedNova88 · Mar 17, 2009, 07:34 AM // 07:34

I did see it and I do understand where you and they are coming from, I guess I just don't get people sometimes since it's been that way for a long time now. Not starting a great debate here, I guess if I were in their place I would have figured something different out besides killing it off completely for PvPers. Not that I'm a high-end PvPer, so I can't say that I've experienced it's OPness in the past.

Arkantos · Mar 17, 2009, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNova88

I did see it and I do understand where you and they are coming from, I guess I just don't get people sometimes since it's been that way for a long time now. Not starting a great debate here, I guess if I were in their place I would have figured something different out besides killing it off completely for PvPers. Not that I'm a high-end PvPer, so I can't say that I've experienced it's OPness in the past.

It was very overpowered.

Completely killing it was the only reasonable thing they could do. It needed to be gone, and they couldn't figure out a way to make it usable and not overpowered. Balancing a game with over a thousand skills isn't a walk in the park. They did what they had to do.

zwei2stein · Mar 17, 2009, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNova88

Rather than nerf it into hell why not get creative and change it's mechanics for PvP if it's so bad? I lose respect for them when I learn this was done deliberately to shun anyone in PvP from using it, which was already blatantly obvious. I understand class and skill balance is... well... A balancing act, but don't drop a boulder on one side and leave it like that.

That was before they figured out that changing skill functionality completely was "fair game".

Anyhow, I do like idea of it being restored with some "nerf" that adds element of skill to both using it and dealing with it.

(5e, 1/4c, 10r)
Enchantment Spell. For 10 seconds, your Smiting Prayers have double the Divine Favor bonus but whenever you would deal damage, you deal fire damage instead and whenever you receive damage you receive holy damage instead.

Go go, armor affected damage & fire shield sets for people on receiving end!
Go go, smiter now receiving more damage overall, easily convinced not to recast smiters boon on recharge by some pressure and easier to spike down.

Hugh Manatee · Mar 17, 2009, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Just make it work like [Divine Boon] after it's nerf and it''l be fine. 5e 1/4c 15r 1m , Divine Favor bonus is doubled for all smiting skills, you lose 2 energy when you cast a smiting skill or this enchantment ends.

moriz · Mar 17, 2009, 02:48 PM // 14:48

that wouldn't work, simply because castigation signet will provide for all its energy needs.

frankly, the ability to deal damage AND heal/prot shouldn't exist. i have no problems about smiter's boon being unusable.

rohara · Mar 17, 2009, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

It was very overpowered.

Completely killing it was the only reasonable thing they could do. It needed to be gone, and they couldn't figure out a way to make it usable and not overpowered. Balancing a game with over a thousand skills isn't a walk in the park. They did what they had to do.

i don't think anyone disagrees that SB was overpowered, but nerfing it into oblivion just because "they couldn't figure out a way to make it usable and not overpowered" is a cop-out. it's their job to figure this stuff out. the player base has come up with dozens of good ideas for this skill, so i find it hard to believe that izzy/linsey/whoever couldn't come up with something better than removing the skill from pvp. it was simply lazy.

Brett Kuntz · Mar 17, 2009, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Some skills have an effective-range and some are like light-switches. Effective-range skills can be balanced as small changes will tweak the line between useful and useless. Light-switch skills are either insanely useful or insanely useless. There is no between with them, there is no balancing them, just turning them on or turning them off. Smiter's Boon was turned off.

zwei2stein · Mar 17, 2009, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

Some skills have an effective-range and some are like light-switches. Effective-range skills can be balanced as small changes will tweak the line between useful and useless. Light-switch skills are either insanely useful or insanely useless. There is no between with them, there is no balancing them, just turning them on or turning them off. Smiter's Boon was turned off.

[Frenzy], anyone?

I would disagree: SB had several variables that could have been used to tune it:

* Recharge
* Cost
* Duration
* Activation
* Even its effect (it does not have to be exactly double in smiters boon case ...)
* Adding malus effect to be played around by user / abused by opponent

However, that is slow process. Turning skills off is much faster. And easier. And its better to overnerf rather than undernerf.

Arkantos · Mar 17, 2009, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohara

i don't think anyone disagrees that SB was overpowered, but nerfing it into oblivion just because "they couldn't figure out a way to make it usable and not overpowered" is a cop-out. it's their job to figure this stuff out. the player base has come up with dozens of good ideas for this skill, so i find it hard to believe that izzy/linsey/whoever couldn't come up with something better than removing the skill from pvp. it was simply lazy.

It wasn't laziness, it was a mistake. Izzy created it, Izzy didn't like it, Izzy killed it. The whole maintainable double divine spirit with smite skills concept is broken. As moriz said, being able to deal good damage while effectively protting/healing shouldn't exist. This one skill allowed monks to do the three things it can very good, and it was simply broken. If they want to bring it back, they're going to have to completely rework it. But before they bring it back, they need to fix the broken stuff now.

Um Yeah · Mar 17, 2009, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

[Frenzy], anyone?

I would disagree: SB had several variables that could have been used to tune it:

* Recharge
* Cost
* Duration
* Activation
* Even its effect (it does not have to be exactly double in smiters boon case ...)
* Adding malus effect to be played around by user / abused by opponent

However, that is slow process. Turning skills off is much faster. And easier. And its better to overnerf rather than undernerf.

That's not the point. Just because those variable exist doesn't mean that tuning them would fix the skill. The concept of the skill was broken and retarded. Adjusting any of those too much would make it not worth bringing and too little would make it still be overpowered. The "just right" line, as far as balance is concerned, is where the skill is at now.

Hanging Man · Mar 17, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

Skill was bad. Got removed.

This thread is bad. What happens next?

Why is there always an asshole for every thread?

I was just curious about a skill.

Back to point.

Doesn't it seem like more of a waste of time to nerf it like this than try and find a solution?

Shadow Slave · Mar 17, 2009, 10:48 PM // 22:48

[auspicious incantation] [glyph of renewal] [smiter's boon]

...Whats the problem?

Quote:

In the future, we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of this skill that would be viable but balanced.

Incarnation / Incantation....the above build was definitely hinted at - read between the lines and gogogogo ~

*Sarcasm Warning* - Added for your benefit, with love.

moriz · Mar 17, 2009, 10:55 PM // 22:55

so 3 skills for 50% uptime, each 5 seconds? very effective use of resources!

/sarcasm

Shadowmoon · Mar 17, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

I think no one has a problem with it being removed from pvp like it was right before the MaT, BUT 6 month latter, and they skill being left in a broken state, it just a testimony of Anet's laziness. I think it time they did something with it, make it work like unyielding aura, have it work completely different in pvp and pve.

Arkantos · Mar 17, 2009, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Doesn't it seem like more of a waste of time to nerf it like this than try and find a solution?

Coming up with a change to completely kill a skill - 15 seconds
Coming up with a change to make a very overpowered skill balanced, not overpowered yet still usable - much longer

What's the waste of time in this scenario?

Sniper22 · Mar 18, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Ok, well here is my idea. Revert its recharge/duration/cost. Change it so that the caster receives the hp bonus heal instead of the target (unless caster is target).

Nerfing a skill to be the most useless in the game is just stupid.

aka Easy · Mar 18, 2009, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

[auspicious incantation] [glyph of renewal] [smiter's boon]

...Whats the problem?

You're not serious, are you? 3 skills from 3 different professions. Also wasting 3 skill slots in pvp for a single skill no matter how overpowered is still pretty bad.

Back OT; haven't they already had a few months to fix this though? Even changing the functionality is better than leaving it in game like this.

street peddler · Mar 18, 2009, 02:25 AM // 02:25

well theyve said they can change skill functionalities, but skill names are sacred. so im sure its easier to just leave the skill dead rather then coming up with a functionality they like that fits "smiters boon".