Curse

Improvavel · Feb 28, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And they're overpowered in PvE because:

-AI is retarded (and if you think you need a boost against it you're just as equally bad)
-Vastly superior to numerous other skills

Just because AI is retarded, giving them a bigger gun doesn't make them any better or make the game enjoyable.

The game is better when the mobs approach the style of play of human foes, but then AI can only do so much.

When you fight most of the enemies in game you don't think "Wow these guys are good or challenging!", you think "here comes a stupid juggernaut".

The bigger the difference between the AI and Human rules the worse and less skillful the game is, regardless of how hard or easy is to overcome the mobs.

As some said, the most enjoyable battles in PvE is against the Charr and Stone Summit in GWEN in NM WITHOUT PVE only-skills and CONSUMABLES. Those are quite good

GWs main flaw is that can only add to the sides, while games like WOW keeps progressing. Its mindless and repetitive, but to beat the new stronger enemies, you need to level and acquire new gear and so on so forth.

To break the mold you need good PvP options. GWs has or had good PvP in GvG, but again it isn't a friendly one to get in.

In SC and WC3 you can play whenever you want. No need to schedule with other people.

In CS, yes for arranged teams matches you need to schedule with other people, but you can train and learn the game playing in random public matches and then trying to get in a team/clan.

For some reason, maybe GWs GvG couldn't generate enough income for Anet to keep the game or just for pure greed (and I'm not criticizing them for wishing to make more money), they decided to expand PvE.

But since they can't or decided against raising the level cap, they can't do what games like WoW do. They can only add more and more of the same stuff. So they decided to add titles to give PvE'rs more stuff to do, HM to give stronger mobs and PvE-only skills and consumables to replace the "better items and more levels" players get in other games.

Since GWs wasn't designed to be like that from scratch it became a mess - hence GW2.

Yes its stupid, yes its badly implemented. But that is why GW is going to be replaced by GW2.

HM wasn't introduced to be more challenging as in requiring more skill, its to be more challenging by requiring titles, new pve-only skills and consumables.

In the end you finish with a game that is as easy or even easier than before?
Isn't what happens in every RPG game, MMO or otherwise?

Wasn't what the game announced? Well, guess they sold their souls to the devil of successful money making MMORPGs, while still having the BEST MMORPG based PvP.

snaek · Feb 28, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

That's why I don't see the point in nerfing stuff in pve because it won't increase skill. Skills should be balanced to give more viable options when playing.

contradicting urself
nerfing overpowered stuff creates skill balance if done correctly
and vise versa wit buffing underpowered skills (aka we dun want to nerf for the sake of nerfing...we simply want balance)

Quote:

Originally Posted by improvavel

Just because AI is retarded, giving them a bigger gun doesn't make them any better or make the game enjoyable.

i quite like the boss fights in gw and many other games thank u very much

its too bad that sorrows furnace is so empty
i thought that boss fight was pretty epic
wish more ppl would experience that rather than spending time doin monotonous tasks like farming/grinding the same spot over and over again

@red sonya
ur post is very misguided
while i agree wit ur attitude in general, the fault is not because ppl want to be highly skilled in the game
moreso the fact that there is a heavy importance on rewards/titles/etc

ppl who use game genie obviously arent lookin to be highly skilled in the game
so that has no relevance on ppl wanting to be very skilled
its more about receiving gratification from winning/obtaining rewards/titles/etc
and choosing the easiest path there is aka pve/overpowered skills

kostolomac · Feb 28, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

contradicting urself
nerfing overpowered stuff creates skill balance if done correctly
and vise versa wit buffing underpowered skills (aka we dun want to nerf for the sake of nerfing...we simply want balance)

There is a difference between nerfing something (smiter's boon anyone?) and tweaking some numbers or minor adjusting.
Regarding the bolded part, balance in any game where you fight AI is temporary even without changes.You gain a great advantage after you beat the AI for the first time. Skills should be changed to allow players multiple viable options when beating the AI.

snaek · Feb 28, 2009, 11:16 PM // 23:16

^no
jus the perception created by the community based on izzy's decisions on nerfs
izzy likes to completely destroy skills...thats not the true defintion of "nerf"

nerfing is lowering the effectiveness of a skill to create balance
whether it is minor or major adjustment doesnt change the fact that it is a nerf

btw izzy said hes not working on balancing gw1 anymore
so perhaps that means there will be no more "smiters boon" level of nerfs
(sowrie starting going offtopic...lets try to keep it on topic)

Improvavel · Mar 01, 2009, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

^no
jus the perception created by the community based on izzy's decisions on nerfs
izzy likes to completely destroy skills...thats not the true defintion of "nerf"

nerfing is lowering the effectiveness of a skill to create balance
whether it is minor or major adjustment doesnt change the fact that it is a nerf

Of course the other way to increase variety is to increase the effectiveness of a skill.

Also it seems a part of the population only considers a skill balanced for PvE if that skill is considered ok for PvP.

Lets look, for example, at the recent nerf of protective was kaolai.

+24 armor that can be turned into a party heal in a pinch is quite strong for PvP. Making it +10 armor to reduce defense levels is probably (saying probably because I'm not playing PvP at this time) good for PvP.

But does that make any difference in PvE? Do the mobs have a hard time killing someone that has +24 armor instead of +10 armor?

If it has no purpose in PvE, especially cause there is a pool of skills in PvE that aren't available for PvP, why was PwK nerfed for PvE too?

And then there is the temptation of attributing all the evils of GWs to overpowered skills the PvE players use, without looking at hoe the mob skills look like - a good example is Ray of Judgment.

Ray of Judgment is quite a powerful tool for the Tank-and-spank archetype of play. But it isn't exclusive of players.

HM Rragar's Menagerie, for example, can be quite interesting. Especially when you have some heroes with you and like 10+ Fleshreaver Hound throwing RoJ's at you on a extremely long and narrow passage. And since its HM they can cast/recharge it quite fast and their RoJs are a "tad" stonger.

Is it impossible to do it? No, of course not. But can involve quite an annoying play style, that wont teach you any skill that will be applied in PvP.

shoyon456 · Mar 01, 2009, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Just for a simple comment, I think the community got increasingly pissy with factions and nf release. I know alot of original players quit during that period.

I think the last straw for most people was the decision to end the GW1 line, trash Utopia, and give us a strage gw2 logo. Kind of lowered my confidence and my willingness to let Anet do "whatever."

Lourens · Mar 01, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

Just for a simple comment, I think the community got increasingly pissy with factions and nf release. I know alot of original players quit during that period.

I think the last straw for most people was the decision to end the GW1 line, trash Utopia, and give us a strage gw2 logo. Kind of lowered my confidence and my willingness to let Anet do "whatever."

Factions was ok but nightfall with those stupid heroes ruined the game for many i even thought of quitting / I love the times where people where dying for a Human Monk and it made me feel good to help them with my monkey

... well and now its just "we dont need you our heroes are superior"

Red Sonya · Mar 01, 2009, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Wrong. Guild Wars is and always will be multiplayer REGARDLESS of how you or anybody else plays.

Diablo 2 and NWN's are multiplayer also, but, that doesn't stop the majority of people playing them solo. GW STARTED OUT as a more multiplayer game, but, has dwindled to a solo game with mere multiplayer elements like D2 and NWN. The proof is in the pugging now vs then. When GW first released I couldn't goto a single district without getting asked to join a pug, now it's next to nill or none in the majority of districts unless you are in the elite areas. Hardly anyone is pugging the story mode anymore they are being played solo with heroes and henchies the majority of time and the population in those districts in prime time proves it. I see more players just standing around with 8 above their heads, not chatting, not even moving or entering missions. It's like Medusa struck these districts and everyone has turned to stone.

Bryant Again · Mar 01, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Just to make myself clearer: ANet did a bad job with HM because they made it keep people playing for titles and more loot and not so much for other reasons. Other games have difficulty settings so that the user can enjoy the game more based on his preference, and the rewards are always the same (in some games you are rewarded with even less than in NM or EM).
If people want to learn how to play GW really good they must do pvp, pve can only teach you a limited amount, and in HM you forget some stuff.

There's nothing wrong with rewards coming from more stressful tasks. It's simply what you get for working harder. The difference that happened in GW is that ANet appealed to the few that wanted it easier, regardless of what happens. ANet even had less of a reason given that all of the rewards are simply cosmetic.

These days, more games are going down the path of rewarding those who "work harder". In Fallout 3 you earn less experience the easier you make the game, and you gain more the harder you set the difficulty. In Rock Band 2 you can turn on "No Fail Mode" and a setting that unlocks all of the songs, but you're disabled from earning achievements as you do so. Further still are there games that unlock secret content when completed on the hardest settings.

I consider how the enemies are set up in Guild Wars to be justified - just like how I consider the hordes of enemies with their special 1-hit kill abilities in other games justified - because I'm human. I adapt. I learn. I change the way I play. Rarely, if not at all, does AI do any of that.

This is further proved with their inconsistency: I praise the challenge of the summit mobs, but it's a bit confusing why. I'd point to them having well balanced team set ups, but I also got that in Kourna and the Desolation - and I don't think I ever considered those two areas challenging. I want to say that it's because I faced the summit much earlier in my gaming career, but even comparing the two today do I find the summit more challenging.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Just because AI is retarded, giving them a bigger gun doesn't make them any better or make the game enjoyable.

YMMV. I always like to reenact David vs. Goliath. It's satisfying knowing that know matter how big a bad guy's sword is, how tough and formidable a dragon can be, that it's always gonna be your brains the end the fight.

Either way, I find it massively interesting that you disdain how the enemies have been given these massive buffs, these "big guns", when Anet provided the exact same tools to the players. Now everyone can play like an idiot!

When one side of the game may be considered broken, breaking the other half just makes it two times worse.

Grj · Mar 02, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

If it has no purpose in PvE, especially cause there is a pool of skills in PvE that aren't available for PvP, why was PwK nerfed for PvE too?

Like many of anet grand jestures, they go half and half or do a half-assed job.

Pointless having a PvP/PvE skill spilt if alot of the changes made unnessary effect the PvE version of said skill. They've not even reverted some of the skill nerfs of the past because of PvP balance.

Improvavel · Mar 02, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Either way, I find it massively interesting that you disdain how the enemies have been given these massive buffs, these "big guns", when Anet provided the exact same tools to the players. Now everyone can play like an idiot!

I just don't consider beating someone that is an idiot in some annoying exploiting way more skillful that beating them in a straightforward way.

A big gun is only a big gun if the other guys don't have it. Once they both have them they will just kill each other in a more spectacular way. Ridiculous would be if Anet had given players big guns and not to the mobs - and that happens in most of the NM.

At the start of this thread (and it is the basis of other threads) some were saying that PvE-only skills and consumables are bad for the community skill. Some even said that was what cause a lack of interest in PvP and whatnot. "Remove the consumables and PvE-only skills to increase the skill!".

What skill is that? Skill similar to GvG.

Its obvious that you beat the AI because the AI is designed to be beaten. And you beat the buffed, stronger AI because they are dumbasses, not because you are skillful, regardless of PvE-only skill or consumables.

Removing PvE-only skills and consumables wont increase skill, what they will make is that instead of you walking a flat road you have to climb a steep hill. But in the end is just a question of time spent not skill.

Its like you having a puzzle to put together, it can have more pieces or less pieces, but its always the same puzzle. Doing it more times will make you faster at it.

But the skill required by GvG is building a scaled down and fully functional model of something that always change, faster than an opposing team, while both of the teams try to disrupt each other work.

So removing those things on the grounds that it will increase the skill of the community and will make them go play GvG and make Anet decide GW2 will be a PvP only game is a bit flimsy.

And, once again, you can make your version of the puzzle have more or less pieces. You just wont be rewarded for it. (Although, if you are the first to discover some exploit in the game, you will most likely will be able to acquire more of something that the community sees as valuable and reap the profits before everyone else catches up).

And gimmicks builds started as innovative builds at one point. But more people learn about them and can run them to the same effect, since its the same AI for everyone.

In GvG, running the same build is very different of being able to use it the same way...

Bryant Again · Mar 02, 2009, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I just don't consider beating someone that is an idiot in some annoying exploiting way more skillful that beating them in a straightforward way.

It's like you said, a puzzle. You have to come up with an idea of routes that you can come up with to solve it. What PvE skills do is provide you with essentially the answer. What consumables do is, in a way, make all of your answers - no matter how wrong - *right*.

That's why you fix the exploits. But then it comes to the question of what's actually considered an exploit...although I'm pretty sure most would agree that the tank-and-spank method shouldn't really exist in GW.

And how come removing things that put quite a halt on build configuration - the epitome of Guild Wars PvE - won't enforce people to actually put together more thoughtful builds? Sure it's not PvP, but there will never, *ever* be a game that "properly prepares you" for it. Even if you'd master expert bots in CS:S, you'll be entering a whole different ballpark once you actually go online. Same with Starcraft, Unreal Tournament...Guild Wars. That doesn't mean you can make it *less* thoughtful.

So what else will balancing consumables and PvE skills do? If nerfed accordingly, it will enforce players to 1. Configure more proper and balanced builds and 2. use skills that actually exist in both sides of the game. The more we include exclusivity in PvE, the more you put a turn-off in PvP.

Also, you state that removing PvE skills and consumables will make that "flat road" into a steep one. That's true if you're not terribly good at the game...Yeah, see the problem?

And hey, if you don't like that steep road, just switch back to NM!!!1 It's so simple, right!?

zurisae · Mar 02, 2009, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Rather late reply...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I am sorry that some people here on the forum are more interested in arguing amongst themselves than stopping to answer your question.
May I ask if you are in a guild? If you are then just don't be afraid to ask questions. A good guild has members who will be glad to you soame tips and help. If they don't go find one that will.

As some were debating, no I wasn't asking a question or looking for advice; I was only stating my (somewhat unexperienced) opinion on the matter. But I appreciate the response, as you said afterwards that new people tend to get ignored. I respect the conversations people have going though and I don't demand that attention be paid immediately..

That said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

and actually i think that point really does relate to gw in-game
between grinding for titles in both pve and pvp, and tryin to complete 3 campaigns, fill hom, accross multiple characters....how does one find the time?
especially since u dun even need to find time to socialize wutsoever since u can isolate urself and jus do it wit heroes

I agree...it is really easy to isolate yourself, what with all the hench and hero options, though sometimes human parties make it easier in specific missions... And like you said, people are so preoccupied with other things that they have no intention to socialize in-game with other people. Judging by what's being said here, the general consensus is that there's too many things to do for too many people who don't know what they're doing.

kostolomac · Mar 02, 2009, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

So what else will balancing consumables and PvE skills do? If nerfed accordingly, it will enforce players to 1. Configure more proper and balanced builds and 2. use skills that actually exist in both sides of the game. The more we include exclusivity in PvE, the more you put a turn-off in PvP.

The problem is that HM doesn't encourage playing balanced because you need 3-4 things for HM: damage, healing and [Protective Spirit] and maybe ["Save Yourselves!"]. Who needs energy denial, interupts or degen pressure when you can just kill them much faster?

As improvavel said, the enemies in pve are there to die and nothing else.

Lourens · Mar 02, 2009, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

The problem is that HM doesn't encourage playing balanced because you need 3-4 things for HM: damage, healing and [Protective Spirit] and maybe ["Save Yourselves!"]. Who needs energy denial, interupts or degen pressure when you can just kill them much faster?

As improvavel said, the enemies in pve are there to die and nothing else.

Interrupts are part of the defense not the offense

DreamWind · Mar 02, 2009, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Diablo 2 and NWN's are multiplayer also, but, that doesn't stop the majority of people playing them solo. GW STARTED OUT as a more multiplayer game, but, has dwindled to a solo game with mere multiplayer elements like D2 and NWN. The proof is in the pugging now vs then. When GW first released I couldn't goto a single district without getting asked to join a pug, now it's next to nill or none in the majority of districts unless you are in the elite areas. Hardly anyone is pugging the story mode anymore they are being played solo with heroes and henchies the majority of time and the population in those districts in prime time proves it. I see more players just standing around with 8 above their heads, not chatting, not even moving or entering missions. It's like Medusa struck these districts and everyone has turned to stone.

What you are saying it true and is a major problem with the game, but you are completely missing the point here. We have people in this thread talking about balance and skill and the game as a whole as if they are the only ones playing it. You CAN NOT do that because the game is multiplayer and has many people playing it in the same world. We can not talk about what is best for the soloers...only what is best for the game.

Red Sonya · Mar 02, 2009, 12:48 PM // 12:48

What is best for the game is beyond fixing. Anet has already caused a mass exodus from trying to BALANCE the game, then they tried to apease the powergamers and grinders and that caused more mass exodus. Then they mucked with necros power and that caused another mass exodus. There was a time when the game was fun PVE wise, there was a time when loot dropped all over the place and farming or just general adventuring was FUN. People grouped with anyone because the loot drops were great even if you did group with a sorry group of people. GW is NOT the game GW was out of the box nearly 4 years ago. Things are too easy for one thing, nobody really has to struggle anymore to get anything anymore. Inscriptions and heroes totally ruined the economy imho. And of course the list goes on. There was a time when ectos and Obsidian armors meant a lot. Now ectos are pretty much a dime a dozen and everyone is wearing some set of Obsidian armor or any other 15k armor. Nothing has value anymore. Titles are worthless except for epeen. Cept maybe wisdom and treasure hunter ones. And GW2 is going to be just like this only it will be a PERSISTANT world mess. lol For a game to survive there must be a reason and a goal constantly for the player(s) to continue. I'm not one to hack up willie over n over again for a few bars of gold that I already have more of than I need. Besides the adventure I want something others want that only some of us have.

It's like this I don't just goto work for an income, I goto work for goals, and to achieve maximum success within the company. To move UP the ladder and OBTAIN GREATER THINGS others don't have below me. That's just life. Without goals or better achievements that job would be boring and redundant and most likely I'd quit. Now maybe you don't need any goals. Perhaps you are satisfied pencil pushing the same types of paper over n over everyday just so you have food on the table, but, I'm the type that always seeks more and more advantages and spiffs out of my job.

Improvavel · Mar 02, 2009, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's like you said, a puzzle. You have to come up with an idea of routes that you can come up with to solve it. What PvE skills do is provide you with essentially the answer. What consumables do is, in a way, make all of your answers - no matter how wrong - *right*.

[[Mental Block], [[Radiation Field], [[Smooth Criminal], [[Summon Ice Imp],[[Summon Mursaat],[[Summon Naga Shaman], [[Summon Ruby Djinn], [["Don't Trip!"],[[Alkar's Alchemical Acid], [[Black Powder Mine], [[Dwarven Stability], [[Ear Bite], [[Low Blow], [[Snow Storm], [[Light of Deldrimor], [[Deft Strike], [[Ebon Escape], [[Signet of Infection], [[Sneak Attack],[[Tryptophan Signet], [[Weakness Trap], [[Winds], [[A Touch of Guile], [[Feel No Pain] [[Raven Blessing], [[Ursan Blessing], [[Volfen Blessing], [[Signet of Corruption], [[Ether Nightmare], [[Elemental Lord], [[Shadow Sanctuary], [[Intensity], [[Vampirism].

Yes, you use these and PvE HM is a joke.

Quote:

although I'm pretty sure most would agree that the tank-and-spank method shouldn't really exist in GW.

While I dislike tank-and-spank, Anet introduced the tools for it from day one.

Quote:

And how come removing things that put quite a halt on build configuration - the epitome of Guild Wars PvE - won't enforce people to actually put together more thoughtful builds?

You are right. You just pick any 3 pve skills and you win.

Quote:

So what else will balancing consumables and PvE skills do? If nerfed accordingly, it will enforce players to 1. Configure more proper and balanced builds and 2. use skills that actually exist in both sides of the game. The more we include exclusivity in PvE, the more you put a turn-off in PvP.

Again I refer you to the list presented. Second, people will always "tank" in PvE. It can be with [[obsidian flesh], [[shadow form] or simply by having a warrior body blocking the mob while enchanted by [[protective spirit]+[[shield of absorption] or any other variety of enchantments and bonds, because, first, the mobs are dumb, second, the mobs while dumb in some late nm areas and in some HM areas, can deal too much damage too fast if faced as if you were facing level 20 humans.

Quote:

Also, you state that removing PvE skills and consumables will make that "flat road" into a steep one. That's true if you're not terribly good at the game...Yeah, see the problem?

Taking 10 hours to finish DoA with tank-and-spank doesn't make you any more skillful than finishing it in 2 hours with cryway tank-and-spank.

Quote:

And hey, if you don't like that steep road, just switch back to NM!!!1 It's so simple, right!?

So people can switch back to NM, but you cant stop using PvE-only skills and consumables that flatten the road for you?

And of course, most of HM is a joke anyway. [protective spirit] + [enfeebling blood] smashes most of it. What we are really talking is one or two areas that are designed to be played with tank-and-spank groups if there were no pve-skills.

DreamWind · Mar 02, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

What is best for the game is beyond fixing. Anet has already caused a mass exodus from trying to BALANCE the game, then they tried to apease the powergamers and grinders and that caused more mass exodus. Then they mucked with necros power and that caused another mass exodus. There was a time when the game was fun PVE wise, there was a time when loot dropped all over the place and farming or just general adventuring was FUN. People grouped with anyone because the loot drops were great even if you did group with a sorry group of people. GW is NOT the game GW was out of the box nearly 4 years ago. Things are too easy for one thing, nobody really has to struggle anymore to get anything anymore. Inscriptions and heroes totally ruined the economy imho. And of course the list goes on. There was a time when ectos and Obsidian armors meant a lot. Now ectos are pretty much a dime a dozen and everyone is wearing some set of Obsidian armor or any other 15k armor. Nothing has value anymore. Titles are worthless except for epeen. Cept maybe wisdom and treasure hunter ones. And GW2 is going to be just like this only it will be a PERSISTANT world mess. lol For a game to survive there must be a reason and a goal constantly for the player(s) to continue. I'm not one to hack up willie over n over again for a few bars of gold that I already have more of than I need. Besides the adventure I want something others want that only some of us have.

Uh...so basically you mostly agree with me but you chose to disagree with me earlier for some reason?

I'll say it again...the game has to be balanced around the fact that it is a multiplayer game. The game philosophy has to be intact for EVERYBODY. If the game preaches skill>time it has to be skill>time for either everybody or nobody. Players going solo has no bearing on this.

Bryant Again · Mar 02, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

...

Yes, you use these and PvE HM is a joke.

Good job, soldier.

Now go ahead and list the rest, you know, the ones people *don't* part with. There's no excuse for having imbalanced, overpowered skills. If you can't beat the idiot AI, learn to play. Prove me wrong, you get a cookie.

Tank and spank has been a method since day one...and the problem is it hasn't even been *touched* since then. The only reason the holy trinity is successful is by being outside of the monsters aggro range while the tank soaks them up and you deal your damage. There are a ton of ways to solve this, quite a few I can think of right off the top of my head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

So people can switch back to NM, but you cant stop using PvE-only skills and consumables that flatten the road for you?

Tell me how it's any less selfish than you wanting them to stay as they are for your soloing prowess.

Because I'll tell you how what you want to maintain is more selfish.

I pointed out earlier how more games have been not giving you credit if you use one of their provided "cheap" methods: Rock Band 2 locks you from earning achievements if you turn on the mode where you can't get booed off the stage no matter how bad you are. Mass Effect will strip your chance of earning the "Hardest Difficulty Playthrough" achievement if you change the difficulty setting *at all*, even *once* through your gameplay. Even going so back far to StarCraft, you won't be scored if you entered a cheat: you'll only be yelled at with the word "cheater!!!" summing up your whole score.

More and more games, while still allowing you to do whatever the *#%@ you want, are still reminding players that there is still a threshold of skill maintaining their game. They're telling players they'll only give them their "pat on the back", their achievements recognized, if they *don't* use the bullshit cheapshots along the way.

That's something ANet has failed to follow through. You're not ever pushed to learn more about your character. You seldom benefit for actually thinking of something creative. They don't want you to play all that their game has to offer, to learn and see all of these skills your class is capable of, to actually see where you need improving: PvE skills and consumables have seen to that, the tank-and-spank method just adds to the problems.

What you don't seem to grasp is that this is terribad game design.
It's not just about playing how you want - it's cool if you can provide that - but it's also about maintaining the meaning of the game. That's what Guild Wars' PvE has lost. If you want an equivalent scenario in another game, it's like having every mission in your favorite strategy game give you unlimited resources and have all the buildings for you at the start of every mission. By following your logic in your thread, this is actually good for the game. So why don't we see every developer immediately hopping on this?...Because it's *bad* for the game.

What you have to do is show me why maintaining a balance in PvE won't encourage people to look at more choices. You have to explain why only having a *few* skills far above the rest is better than having a whole lot more be on the same level.

If you can show me a point in having imbalance, then I will here after stop posting on these forums. Show me why variety is bad, and why we should only stick to only a couple playstyles in a sea of potential thousands.