Curse

DarkFlame · Mar 02, 2009, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Someone missed Strain's '07 memo about GW not competing with WoW?

Apollo Smile · Mar 02, 2009, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Yeah, the WoW vs GW debate is always hilarious. Its like comparing Pokemon to Final Fantasy. Completely different games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Hilarious article. Why did Tabula Rasa die? Because people didn't want to pay 15$ a month for a bad game anymore. Why did Age of Conan die? Because people dind't want to pay 15$ for a game that hasn't any Elite content. Why do people still play GuildWars, even after it has become stale? Because it is free.

Yeah, because it is free.

WoW can't kill Solitaire, because people don't have to choose between WoW and Solitaire. And Solitaire is free.

How many of you would still play GW if it charged you 15$ a month?

There is a huge flaw in your argument. If Guild Wars had a monthly fee it would have more content and update more frequently. So yes, I would.

SerenitySilverstar · Mar 02, 2009, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFlame

Someone missed Strain's '07 memo about GW not competing with WoW?

I was just about to bring that one up.

For the supposed info that's out there about GW2 that people are using as ammo for the "OMG WoW clone!" argument, it's possible that this information was very embrionic and could change (and we may never know it HAS changed until release because of the NDA). Also, those rumours may have been started to throw the competition off.

RedNova88 · Mar 02, 2009, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

I just want to reinforce what others have been saying. GW is good because it was unique and it wasn't trying to be WoW. Over time GW has implemented much more of WoW's features, and if the trend continues, the franchise will die.

You know, I don't want to agree with this but it seems pretty much true. I hate to admit, but I started to get this feeling as soon as I played factions and got to the Kurz/Luxon part where you are required to farm 10k faction to advance the story. A little grind is fine, I think people like earning, but stuff like the EotN factions is just a bad idea IMO. I wish all faction titles were like Sunspear, r8 or 9 by the end of the game?

Quote:

GW is far more grind than WoW since WotLK.

Untrue, the grind in GW is strictly optional, the grind in WoW is required. That is, if you considering doing quests grind, which I did the whole time playing (4+ years now). Guild Wars fills the majority of it's game with interesting quests (most of them) and missions which are fun the first two or three times.

Quote:

More than 50% of the skills in GW are unplayable, though.

However, one could argue that this is because of lack of creativity in the community. I wouldn't say 50%, that's a bit much, but you are right to an extent since some skills need balancing and tweaking. If people really want to see skills tweaked that aren't up to par with their ideals, why not list them in the suggestions forum and adjust them as the community sees reasonable?

Quote:

Loads of vultures in here apparently

What do you expect? A lot of the GW community feels that Anet owes them more than they actually do. People want skill balances, no they want new content! NO! Now they want X suggestion implemented! SHAZBOT! NOW THEY WANT GW 2 INFO! If I worked at Anet I'd be pulling my hair out if I had to put up with the community here. The biggest problem of all is that the vast majority just whine, they don't even offer to remedy the situation, whatever it may be.

GW won't die for the same reason EQ won't die... At it's core it's got something very unique and fun. However, if they want to continue with their success I urge them to look at their roots, and remember what their original product was. This is the issue with so many sequels it's baffling to the mind, they want to make something "better" or add something in to "spice" the game up, all the while forgetting their roots.

Look anywhere, you'll likely see it in every sequel (in the form of campaigns with GW).

Skill over time! Leave this behind and you leave the very foundation of the game behind.

EDIT: I should also point out that I agree with everyone that has said it's dumb to make a WoW vs GW argument, the 15$ a month difference means the argument is already void of any value. Quite a few people I know play both anyway, and that's just fine and dandy.

fireflyry · Mar 02, 2009, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Competition is healthy.

It only ends in us all having better games to play.

The "This Game vs This Game" argument is logically flawed, unless you want to play crap games.

Gwmaster · Mar 02, 2009, 07:26 AM // 07:26

the only reason i stick with gw for 4 years is because wow is too time consuming, or i would be playing it with all my friends lol. 15$ a month is nothing unless you're a kid. I waste more than that in chips/soda per month..buy 2 bags of chip+ 1 2 liter soda..there goes your 15$.

Red Sonya · Mar 02, 2009, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

I waste more than that in chips/soda per month..buy 2 bags of chip+ 1 2 liter soda..there goes your 15$.

Thing is you still waste THAT money while you pay to play a mmorpg, you don't stop snacking just because some online game costs you an ADDITIONAL $15. Plus if you keep doing that you'll get diabetes 2 later on if you don't already have it.

Also, there's much cheaper chips and soda. I can buy 2 bags of chips and 2 bottles of soda for $4.00

wilebill · Mar 02, 2009, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Played WoW since it came out, off and on.

Played GW since Prophecies went online.

For me, WoW eventually came to an end. GW never comes to an end. Always something new to do, and taking a break is free!

What brought me over from WoW to begin with was just one thing a developer of GW said. In GW, all characters could use a longbow! I was playing a Paladin in WoW at the time and it seemed utterly stupid that a wondrous Knight of the Silver Hand could not so much as chunk a rock to pull a target.

RedNova88 · Mar 02, 2009, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Pretty much same here wilebill, in WoW you kind of feel obligated to play it even if you don't want to because you just spent money on a gamecard or such. One of the hugest draws to GW for me was exactly what you said, sort of. The dual class system as well as the raw versatility that every class has is a wonderful thing, and generates a lot of curiosity and appeal. Sure, I was astonished at the back of the box, showing the hamstorm build, then later disappointed finding it didn't work, but the idea alone is wonderful. That, and as you said, taking a break costs you nothing, and you aren't forced to pay as you play.

The pay to play is WoW's advantage, as it gives them ample resources for new servers and upgrades, new staff and of course new content. The only problem with said new content is that it doesn't last very long, and takes far too long to develop when considering all the money people are shoving into Blizzards mouth. I guess that's what happens when you're developing several other games (SC2, next expansion, D3, mystery MMO). I am greatly please with WotLK though, they've really gotten serious about what they're doing and made the game a lot more skill>time oriented. No longer are people required to do moronically tedious quests just to do the high end dungeons, and no longer are they just for the hardcore folk.

However it works the same way in reverse with Anet and their projects, they've gotten a nice amount of success with their games so far, and that continues to grow steadily it seems. However, the growth is not enough to bring in the money required to hire the staff needed to supplement the team in order to please the upset, angsty people that rant all day about not getting what they want. Just because NCsoft is backing them doesn't mean that Anet is rolling in the green. They've either gotta work on GW2, or GW1. While I agree certain things should change and get fixed... Well... I guess it's just easiest to say it's not as easy as it looks.

Dr.Jones · Mar 02, 2009, 11:49 AM // 11:49

very interesting, sadly though I think they are going to take Guild Wars2 in a some what drastic direction from gw1 to more of a WoW style game. I was about to make a tread on here asking what people think are the core Game Mechanics of Guild Wars and which of these would they like to see in Guild Was2

GuidoNecromancer · Mar 02, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNova88

Pretty much same here wilebill, in WoW you kind of feel obligated to play it even if you don't want to because you just spent money on a gamecard or such. One of the hugest draws to GW for me was exactly what you said, sort of. The dual class system as well as the raw versatility that every class has is a wonderful thing, and generates a lot of curiosity and appeal. Sure, I was astonished at the back of the box, showing the hamstorm build, then later disappointed finding it didn't work, but the idea alone is wonderful. That, and as you said, taking a break costs you nothing, and you aren't forced to pay as you play.

The pay to play is WoW's advantage, as it gives them ample resources for new servers and upgrades, new staff and of course new content. The only problem with said new content is that it doesn't last very long, and takes far too long to develop when considering all the money people are shoving into Blizzards mouth. I guess that's what happens when you're developing several other games (SC2, next expansion, D3, mystery MMO). I am greatly please with WotLK though, they've really gotten serious about what they're doing and made the game a lot more skill>time oriented. No longer are people required to do moronically tedious quests just to do the high end dungeons, and no longer are they just for the hardcore folk.

However it works the same way in reverse with Anet and their projects, they've gotten a nice amount of success with their games so far, and that continues to grow steadily it seems. However, the growth is not enough to bring in the money required to hire the staff needed to supplement the team in order to please the upset, angsty people that rant all day about not getting what they want. Just because NCsoft is backing them doesn't mean that Anet is rolling in the green. They've either gotta work on GW2, or GW1. While I agree certain things should change and get fixed... Well... I guess it's just easiest to say it's not as easy as it looks.

Interesting what you say there about WoW now being skill > time orientated since WotLK... I actually think the complete opposite. I was until very recently GM of a guild called Sepultavi on Nagrand EU (character Tourn). We'd cleared all content and I felt it was by far the easiest content to date, there was no need for crowd control and we didn't spend more than a couple of hours learning any boss fights.

I said in an earlier post that one thing I love about Guild Wars is that I can log on for 30 minutes and achieve something, that is impossible on WoW. another huge thing which I forgot to mention is that I love not having to rely on other people all the time - Heroes are such a great idea.

I personally stopped WoW recently because of some changes in my real life (moving house and job) so I didn't have time to carry on - it's the best thing that's ever happened to me! I love the freedom of playing Guild Wars when I have time, unlike WoW which was like a second job.

Tullzinski · Mar 02, 2009, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Validates what most of us already know. WoW and Guild Wars are two different animals. Nice to see someone discover and appreciate GW like the majority of us did way back.

Rocky Raccoon · Mar 02, 2009, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Hilarious article. Why did Tabula Rasa die? Because people didn't want to pay 15$ a month for a bad game anymore. Why did Age of Conan die? Because people dind't want to pay 15$ for a game that hasn't any Elite content. Why do people still play GuildWars, even after it has become stale? Because it is free.

Yeah, because it is free.

WoW can't kill Solitaire, because people don't have to choose between WoW and Solitaire. And Solitaire is free.

How many of you would still play GW if it charged you 15$ a month?

If they had charged $15 a month it would have changed the whole dynamic. They would have to have added content to justify the payment.
So basically that is an irrelevant comment.

Ctb · Mar 02, 2009, 01:38 PM // 13:38

The only "argument" I see there is that Guild Wars isn't WoW and that's why WoW isn't "killing" it. The same can be said about Halo. Or Tetris. What a dumb argument.

This is why I hate blogs.

Nightow · Mar 02, 2009, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoNecromancer

I said in an earlier post that one thing I love about Guild Wars is that I can log on for 30 minutes and achieve something, that is impossible on WoW. another huge thing which I forgot to mention is that I love not having to rely on other people all the time - Heroes are such a great idea.

I personally stopped WoW recently because of some changes in my real life (moving house and job) so I didn't have time to carry on - it's the best thing that's ever happened to me! I love the freedom of playing Guild Wars when I have time, unlike WoW which was like a second job.

What GuidoNecromancer said right here reflects how I feel about GW and not just WoW but MMO's in general. Being able to log on, get right into the action and not always having to rely on others just to have some fun or get something done is something Anet did completely right. I know many traditional MMO players might disagree but keeping the grouping optional most of the time really makes the game more enjoyable in the long run. It essentially takes the downtime you would normally face in the amount of time it would take to form a group and make the most out of your time.

Why more MMO's don't do this with today's busy lifestyles is something I don't entirely understand, I just hope ArenaNet sticks to this idea of theirs and runs with it.

Arduin · Mar 02, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

There is a huge flaw in your argument. If Guild Wars had a monthly fee it would have more content and update more frequently. So yes, I would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

If they had charged $15 a month it would have changed the whole dynamic. They would have to have added content to justify the payment.
So basically that is an irrelevant comment.

True that. But if GW had a monthly fee, a lot less people would have subscribed to this game in the first place. Many have bought GW because of the 'no monthly fee' on the box. Just asking it in my alliance told me about half of them would never ever pay a subscription, a slim percentage would pay it for GW if (like you said) a lot more of content was added.

And remember GW was launched when WoW was all the hype. People who didn't had any problems paying a subscription were happily playing WoW, leveling to 60, raiding, crafting, grinding there asses off and altogether getting sucked into the game.

People who didn't liked the idea of paying subscription, noticed GW and the no monthly fee. (hey it's why I didn't get WoW in the first place, and began playing GW with a friend.)

Of course there's more to GW than the no monthly fee. Yet I still think GW has been so successful because if the business idea of 'pick it up when you want to play and drop while you bored'. It worked for me and lots of other players. The mechanics introduced by Anet suits that model: instanced gameplay, map travel, elite zone can be cleared under 3 hours...makes it more casual and not as hardcore as WoW. Small bouts of play opposed to getting your entire evening occupied by one single raid.

However, this model doesn't suit a classic MMO, because content can be completed very fast. And with GW, after you've cleared Prophecies there was nothing left to do but farm for your Obsidian armor. (Note I'm only talking about PvE here). With a subscription, a lot more content would had to be added to keep players playing (and not lose them to WoW). And not only new zones, because you just run through them while doing quests,and elite areas can be cleared only so many times before getting boring, but new game modes.

Anet realized this, and to keep players busy, they added Hardmode, titles, HoM. More, they are now making GW2, offering a diversity of races, world PvP, non instanced zones....without having to pay for a subscription!

Yet, most of this is speculation from my side. No one knows what would had become from GW if it had a monthly fee. Would it have shined next to WoW, because of GW appealing to a different crowd? Or would it have slowly died away, not able to compete with WoW's vast content/huge fanbase/massive lore?

EDIT:

I noticed in people's responses a lot of them indeed love the way GW is set up: instanced gameplay, small bouts of play when you want it. To those people: If GW would have had a massive world (10*Prophecies), so you would never have to be afraid to run out of content, would you still pay 15$ a month, and at the same time allow yourself to keep playing GW in those short bouts, not logging in for 2 weeks because you are busy, and just as well play only for a few hours each week?

tasha · Mar 02, 2009, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Wow can't kill Guild Wars... because its not trying to.

I brought this up in the F2P vs P2P debate last week - You can ask as many people as you like what their favourite games are and you'll get an infinate number of replies because even directly competing games in the same genre appeal to different people in different ways. If those two games can survive in the same market is a totally different story (as we've seen with all the mmos that have gone bust).

If people want to compare a b2p CORPG with a p2p MMORPG go ahead.

Oh and as for the awards... thats due to Guild Wars not fitting in a nice box for the awards and the title being entered into the nearest one. I don't see that there are a lot of CORPGs for Guild Wars to compete with such that those giving the awards could make a new catagory.

pumpkin pie · Mar 02, 2009, 03:30 PM // 15:30

That was a bad article, there's not a thing in there that non of us don't already know. the Dimsum Queen only got one part right, she pick up the game too late .

However her decision of wanting to write an article about a game so late in its "life span" did tell you why GW won't die.

because its a good game! years later someone who has never play before picking up the game will still be able to enjoy it. unless offcourse GW2 is out and far far way way better then GW.

Nightow · Mar 02, 2009, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

EDIT:

I noticed in people's responses a lot of them indeed love the way GW is set up: instanced gameplay, small bouts of play when you want it. To those people: If GW would have had a massive world (10*Prophecies), so you would never have to be afraid to run out of content, would you still pay 15$ a month, and at the same time allow yourself to keep playing GW in those short bouts, not logging in for 2 weeks because you are busy, and just as well play only for a few hours each week?

I have seen massive world MMO's but the actual content (read: scenery, landmarks, mobs, etc.) was severely lacking so what you're left with is a lot of empty land to explore along with more invisible walls than ever before. So I think in the end, most players don't need/want a massive world, what they want is content that is numerous and solid.

So to answer your question, I admit, I would be tempted to pay the $15 a month but only if it's not empty and as barren as an ettin's back. But just to add, it would still need to have hench/heroes so I can go explore it all on my time.

Edit: Just wanted to add that the day I'd join WoW is the day they add at least henchmen.

Lord Sojar · Mar 02, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52

WoW completely destroys Guild Wars. And.... all this crap about its graphics... AHAHHAHA. At max resolution and settings (assuming you have a good PC obviously), WoW looks amazing....

Guild Wars will never beat WoW, because WoW is so much larger and sprawling. Guild Wars has its appeal, but it cannot beat WoW.... period.

That is not to say though, that Guild Wars is a bad game; it is simply just seen its best days and is on a decline. WoW went through a phase like that when Warhammer released, but all those players have returned to WoW because... Warhammer is meh.