Curse

stretchs · Mar 30, 2009, 01:04 PM // 13:04

I played several dozen matches, had at most 1/2 a dozen leechers, but all in all, was happy to see it alot less leecher friendly. As for balance, each team could win all depending in the "random" team they end up with

awry · Mar 30, 2009, 03:32 PM // 15:32

50:50 in my experience. When kurzicks have 3 monks, gg, we luxons lose. One case i'll like to point out was when we had 7 ELEMENTALISTS on our team. We did not have any lack of dmg, in fact, we killed EVERY OTHER npc, before half the time ran out, and we had our turtles in their base, 3 MONKS AND 7 OF US ELES ALL IN THERE NUKING THE SHIT OUT OF GUNTHER AND HE WOULD NOT DIE. no use trying to go for the monks, because they would respawn back up and screw us over. They chased us out of their base and then held their position over us through attrition.

Painbringer · Mar 30, 2009, 04:30 PM // 16:30

It was not too bad with the leeching or atleast it seemed at a minimum. Maybe because the leeches knew if they played they would earn more points then just being a leech. And by the way if you make a character to leech and hide in the turtle spawn zone then yes luxon shortbow is a good name to hide with. sneaky but reportable

Saborath Gilgalad · Mar 30, 2009, 06:23 PM // 18:23

First off I was amazed at the lack of lechers over the three days. For me there were less than 5 for the entire weekend, so I was pleasantly surprised. I was playing on the Luxon side, (mainly monking) and our win ratio was 70-30 in favor of the Luxons so the faction hall was very nice. When we lost it was mainly due to the Kurzicks having 3 healers holding up Gunther, but 3000 faction was still nice. Only got the 2400 three times. All in all it was a nice double weekend.

byteme! · Mar 30, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

WAIT A MINUTE!

2-3 months ago we had a huge topic about how the reduction in time (-5 minutes) it takes for Kurzicks to win made FA "imbalanced". This entire thread contradicts all of that. The win/loss ratio is divided in general. That means for every person who is losing/failing there is an equal/opposite person experiencing the exact opposite. So WTF were we all QQ'ing about before????

Once again we have been shown over time that much of the theorycraft, whining, crying, and number crunching amounted to nothing. Again!

As the old saying goes, "Time will tell".

FoxBat · Mar 30, 2009, 07:06 PM // 19:06

The ratio will probably restore itself in a week or two.

Still, I've found I do better now playing shutdown mesmer, either spamming [diversion] or [arcane languor]. [Visions of Regret] doesn't work, one time I spent 5 minutes in a battle with 3 monks dumb enough to ball up and all get VoRd at once, they just keep spamming heals on gunther till they are dead and got up in 5 seconds and did it again. You need actual shutdown on monks not just damage, better if it is shutdown that lasts through respawns.

Giga_Gaia · Mar 30, 2009, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

WAIT A MINUTE!

2-3 months ago we had a huge topic about how the reduction in time (-5 minutes) it takes for Kurzicks to win made FA "imbalanced". This entire thread contradicts all of that. The win/loss ratio is divided in general. That means for every person who is losing/failing there is an equal/opposite person experiencing the exact opposite. So WTF were we all QQ'ing about before????

Once again we have been shown over time that much of the theorycraft, whining, crying, and number crunching amounted to nothing. Again!

As the old saying goes, "Time will tell".

Exactly. That was the whole point of this thread. We don't need anymore buffs to the luxons, or anymore nerfs to the kurzicks. We just needed to see how the whole map would play out once you actually had some competition instead of having 5 leechers every game.

upier · Mar 30, 2009, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

Exactly. That was the whole point of this thread. We don't need anymore buffs to the luxons, or anymore nerfs to the kurzicks. We just needed to see how the whole map would play out once you actually had some competition instead of having 5 leechers every game.

That's just silly.
Like I previously said - the only reason why it appears balanced is because you have shitty players on the Kurzick side.

Esprit · Mar 30, 2009, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Jade Quarry was not bad at all on the Luxon side. I play a couple dozen matches and would get a leecher or two every 5 or 6 rounds. Won most of my matches too.

ZenRgy · Mar 30, 2009, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

The ratio will probably restore itself in a week or two.

Still, I've found I do better now playing shutdown mesmer, either spamming [diversion] or [arcane languor]. [Visions of Regret] doesn't work, one time I spent 5 minutes in a battle with 3 monks dumb enough to ball up and all get VoRd at once, they just keep spamming heals on gunther till they are dead and got up in 5 seconds and did it again. You need actual shutdown on monks not just damage, better if it is shutdown that lasts through respawns.

If you roll a dom mesmer bar without diversion you probably shouldn't be rolling a dom mesmer.

FoxBat · Mar 30, 2009, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

If you roll a dom mesmer bar without diversion you probably shouldn't be rolling a dom mesmer.

Gank/split mesmers like VoR or Lyssa's don't need it. I'd be happy with backfire if monks couldn't respawn in 5 seconds. Then again alot of people don't even notice the hex and spam through it, so it's unusually effective in FA.

Painbringer · Mar 30, 2009, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

The ratio will probably restore itself in a week or two.

Still, I've found I do better now playing shutdown mesmer, either spamming [diversion] or [arcane languor]. [Visions of Regret] doesn't work, one time I spent 5 minutes in a battle with 3 monks dumb enough to ball up and all get VoRd at once, they just keep spamming heals on gunther till they are dead and got up in 5 seconds and did it again. You need actual shutdown on monks not just damage, better if it is shutdown that lasts through respawns.

Exactly why [Arcane Languor] [Aneurysm] trick is so much fun in FA

Exhaustion is the only thing that does not go away on rez

byteme! · Mar 30, 2009, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

That's just silly.
Like I previously said - the only reason why it appears balanced is because you have shitty players on the Kurzick side.

"And like I previously said".....

The win/loss ratio is divided in general. That means for every person who is losing/failing there is an equal/opposite person experiencing the exact opposite.

So what ever you, your guild, and your friends experienced someone somewhere experiences the complete opposite. Even you can't be that naive to think this doesn't happen. Case in point - this thread.

/end

upier · Mar 30, 2009, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

"And like I previously said".....

The win/loss ratio is divided in general. That means for every person who is losing/failing there is an equal/opposite person experiencing the exact opposite.

So what ever you, your guild, and your friends experienced someone somewhere experiences the complete opposite. Even you can't be that naive to think this doesn't happen. Case in point - this thread.

/end

Have 8 monks/resto rits on the Kurzick side.
As long as the only objective for the Kurzicks is to wait it out - if you have equally good teams, the Kurzick will ALWAYS win.

If the map was balanced - you'd have a draw in this situation.

Gli · Mar 30, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Then again alot of people don't even notice the hex and spam through it, so it's unusually effective in FA.

I find that casting through backfire is the best way to deal with it. Much better to cast a spell or 2 to inflict some hurt or offer some aid, and respawn out of the way of the offending mesmer, than running around or wanding for 10 seconds, essentially being helpless and useless, while someone is going to kill you anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Have 8 monks/resto rits on the Kurzick side.
As long as the only objective for the Kurzicks is to wait it out - if you have equally good teams, the Kurzick will ALWAYS win.

If the map was balanced - you'd have a draw in this situation.

If you assume a 'perfect' team on the Kurzick side, you need to do the same for the Luxon side. I can think of a team that would trounce your Kurzick team any day of the week.

upier · Mar 30, 2009, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

If you assume a 'perfect' team on the Kurzick side, you need to do the same for the Luxon side. I can think of a team that would trounce your Kurzick team any day of the week.

Do tell!
Oh and keep in mind that we are dealing with a random format.

Gli · Mar 30, 2009, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Do tell!

A team of 8 characters who are all able to deal ungodly amounts of rapidly applied damage, at least one of whom brings [WotP].

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Oh and keep in mind that we are dealing with a random format.

Why do I have to keep that in mind while you can handpick your winning Kurzick team? Or are you suggesting your team has a likelyhood of actually showing up at random once in a while? I don't think my team is much of a stretch in that regard either.

byteme! · Mar 30, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

@GLI - He's just theorycrafting a scenario that fits his argument. However the argument isn't fitting at the very least.

own age myname · Mar 30, 2009, 10:36 PM // 22:36

I mostly JQ'ed this weekend for the Luxons (Mo/P RoJ runner really helps, I basically pulled the team through wins most of the time :/). I played about ~20 FA games with my Assasin Promise Nuker and won about 65:45. It was actually fun and enjoyable without leechers. I thought it'd be the exact opposite...

upier · Mar 30, 2009, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

A team of 8 characters who are all able to deal ungodly amounts of rapidly applied damage, at least one of whom brings [WotP].

Sounds like a spike.
Sounds like a spike in a random arena.
Yeah ...

(Because you are aware you will have 8 people behind a closed door that will spam WoH like heals on recharge on a SINGLE target, right?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Why do I have to keep that in mind while you can handpick your winning Kurzick team? Or are you suggesting your team has a likelyhood of actually showing up at random once in a while? I don't think my team is much of a stretch in that regard either.

See, a team of 8 Kurzick monks/resto rits, which is pretty much unbeatable, can be created in a simple way.
Each person that jumps into Aspy rolls a monk. Or a resto rit. Which means all characters on the Kurzick side would be monks/resto rits. Each of those guys brings some hex removal, heals and prots.
Press enter.
The game randomly selects 8 players. It selects 8 players out of a pool where EVERYONE is either a monk or a rit.
The whole team consists of the BEST options for the job. And you pretty much have a perfect team.
(Considering that profane is going to be one of the best counters - these guys could actually waste a slot on Putrid. Just blow up the corpses. Which poses a problem in regards with the fact that a Rt going N for Putrid loses hex removal. Which could lead to the scenario where monks would really be the only possible option.)

Now lets look at the Luxon team.
You mentioned Profane. Which means to be certain that Profane will be presents - each person need to put it on his bar. Otherwise you rely on luck to get a party where Profane will be present. (Also keep in mind that Profane won't be always available - if even. Which means everyone needs additional ench removals.)
And now you need to be able to do do ungodly amounts of damage. And each person needs to be able to do that - otherwise you are once again relying on luck to get the party you want.
And other roles?

That's the problem. As a Kurzick - you are able to roll the best option and you don't need to rely on luck to get a party that will complement your build.
As a Luxon - there are a bit more roles to fill. Which means you need to get lucky and get the party you want.
Or you need to be able to fill all those roles onto one bar.
So what would that (or those, if the bars in question are completely exchangeable) bar be? And I am seriously asking this, because if the Kurzicks start playing to win, without knowing the bar in question - I don't see how the Luxons can ever win again.