Curse

xDusT II · Feb 07, 2009, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Looks like a perfectly fitting punishment to me. The way I see it, the actual course of events by the two involved guilds ended up being harmless however the action itself needed to be discouraged to send the message to other guilds who may potentially see this as justification to manipulate tournaments by removing one of the main incentives and reason behind doing so.

Chthon · Feb 07, 2009, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Trivial punishment for a trivial offense.
Works for me.

Shmanka · Feb 07, 2009, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Dear Lord Dasmitchies of the Sacred Forge Knights,

You are going out on a pretty long limb to call it favoritism. No Guild, in the history of ATs and the AT rules, has forced a draw in this manner. That means there is no other case for comparison. How can you call it favoritism if you don't know how they would treat other guilds in this situation?

Dude, you can compare this. Not just by a basis of exact case and scenario, but take QQ for example. Someone simply ~asked~ "Can you resign?" and they lost their trim.

Now both guilds are "Hey lets make top 16 together, let's do a conga line and show everyone!"

So the punishment of simple trim removal, is a joke, this punishment is a joke, and ANets presentation of enforcing rules is a joke. Who wants to really compete in GW2 if junk like this happens? Really?

Complete rating wipe would have been so much more suitable, that would prevent anyone from fooling around. Whats gonna happen when people rig the tournaments and just not conga line? Lose poop trim?

This is complete favoritism. Sadly, when the next installment of this game series comes in, I'll tell people about how dumb/biased this company is, whenever they pick up the box saying GuildWars 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

3. What they did had no effect on the final standings.

I want you to MATHEMATICALLY prove this to me, because I did the math. Your wrong. [rawr] had a good chance of only making 17-32 division. That is the problem here. So unless you or ANet can prove this, your entire argument is thrown out the window, and over 4000 RP's and a gold cape belong to [GeAr].

MMSDome · Feb 07, 2009, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

I want you to MATHEMATICALLY prove this to me, because I did the math. Your wrong. [rawr] had a good chance of only making 17-32 division. That is the problem here. So unless you or ANet can prove this, your entire argument is thrown out the window, and over 4000 RP's and a gold cape belong to [GeAr].

How can you say [GeAr] deserves a gold cape? Lol of course they don't because either way they would have lost. Either zero or rawr would have beat them in the top 16 (had ensign not have lagged out) so get out of hear with the cape bs.

scoopins · Feb 07, 2009, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

How can you say [GeAr] deserves a gold cape?.

do they deserve it? no

would it be hilarious to see GeAr with gold cape? yes

Chocobo1 · Feb 07, 2009, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Make up your mind on your stances towards rule breaking. You ban people without even checking when they get /report'd and you clearly watch these guys breaking the rules and they lose some yellow off their cape. What a joke.

Dmitri3 · Feb 07, 2009, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

So the punishment of simple trim removal, is a joke, this punishment is a joke, and ANets presentation of enforcing rules is a joke. Who wants to really compete in GW2 if junk like this happens? Really?

Don't. If you want to punish people for wanting to win (once again, intentional draw isn't that rare and is pretty accepted in many games), you sure as hell don't belong in a real competition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

Complete rating wipe would have been so much more suitable, that would prevent anyone from fooling around. Whats gonna happen when people rig the tournaments and just not conga line? Lose poop trim?

Because rawr couldn't just get back to number 1 in 2 days like they did after the whole incident of rawr being hacked and disbanded?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

I want you to MATHEMATICALLY prove this to me, because I did the math. Your wrong. [rawr] had a good chance of only making 17-32 division. That is the problem here. So unless you or ANet can prove this, your entire argument is thrown out the window, and over 4000 RP's and a gold cape belong to [GeAr].

No arguments are thrown out of a window. I don't see your calculations on it, stop being a hypocrite.

Michael805 · Feb 07, 2009, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Because rawr couldn't just get back to number 1 in 2 days like they did after the whole incident of rawr being hacked and disbanded?

I think they might have actually liked that. Then they could get a 0 loss record.

Apok Omen · Feb 07, 2009, 06:21 AM // 06:21

It seems as though everyone and their mother's goldfish wants to see rawr (and maybe zero) virtually and competitively raped. Not just because they broke the rules (purposefully or possibly to show how awesome conga lines are in mario cart land) but because Anet "favors" them.

However, even if the punishment doesn't seem as harsh, that's because it wasn't meant to be. This is a warning, plain and simple. Math or not, rawr had a much higher chance at winning had they beaten zero. What all the rawr-haters want is a chance to see someone else with gold cape that doesn't sell the guild right after.

I realize that the real problem is the fact that the terribad tiebreaker is the reason they were able to reach top 16, but look at it this way: at least Anet is now looking into it more seriously. If they didn't manipulate the mechanics, then the tiebreaker would still be unchecked.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't GeAr disband? And if I'm right, then may I ask as to why they disbanded?

Kashrlyyk · Feb 07, 2009, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

Looks like a perfectly fitting punishment to me. The way I see it, the actual course of events by the two involved guilds ended up being harmless however the action itself needed to be discouraged to send the message to other guilds who may potentially see this as justification to manipulate tournaments by removing one of the main incentives and reason behind doing so.

Then why this:

Quote:

We were officially removed from one full season of play because Vanquisher asked Black Rose Gaming to resign (which they didn't).

http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11108

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

.....Anet "favors" them.

Remove the quotation mark, they removed any doubt.

Quote:

... This is a warning, plain and simple. .....

No, that doesn´t fit what they did with [QQ].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Don't. If you want to punish people for wanting to win (once again, intentional draw isn't that rare and is pretty accepted in many games), you sure as hell don't belong in a real competition.
...

Are you intentionally misreading?? He wants ANet to punish all guilds equally. A guild got remove from a whole season for TRYING to cheat! Rawr and Zero ACTUALLY CHEATED and nothing happens? Is that really that hard to understand???

ghost well you know · Feb 07, 2009, 07:53 AM // 07:53

whats really sad is that they feed us this line of bs and expect everyone to agree.Whats to stop the next team from doing it?Would only be fair to remove their trim also,or if they don't have trim remove their cape alltogether?
How would you justify letting them get away with it and not some other guild...oh wait thats already happened.1 guild got served a serious ban the other got trim removed.
Just keep on pushing your customers away anet,You might think 1 or 2 here isn't much but they add up quickly.I'll find it hard to buy gw2 knowing you are so wishy washy with your rules.you punish leechers more than you did them.SAD DAY.

Kashrlyyk · Feb 07, 2009, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghost well you know

...Whats to stop the next team from doing it?....

Because future intentional draws MIGHT be punished harder. Translation: Every guild but rawr WILL get punished harder, if it is rawr again we WON`T punish them again.

What they did is this:

Year 1: We punish theft by hanging the thief.
Year 2: We punish theft by slapping the wrist and no that has nothing to do with the fact that the thief is my own child. But future thieves will get hanged to discourage stealing.

defect · Feb 07, 2009, 11:43 AM // 11:43

That's it?

That's all they're going to do?

><

Wow.So cheating has no meaning to Anet when their stars are involved.Everyone should just get rawr to dupe stuff for them.Apparently they're above the rules

What a joke

wbbear29 · Feb 07, 2009, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Since it's ok in so many games (that use the Swiss system) to intentionally play a draw, it is safe to say that rawr and zero didn't think it would be such a big deal. In the end, Anet decided it was a big deal but because it wasn't specifically mentioned that intentional draws weren't allowed, they decided to be lenient...this time, and announce far and wide that it isn't allowed.

When intentionally lose to help some other guy out by giving him a free win, that is something that everyone can clearly see that it is ladder manipulation, and therefore it is obviously ladder manipulation.

There is a difference between the two, for everyone willing to see the difference, except that I agree that the /resign case could have been handled less harsh.

shoogi · Feb 07, 2009, 01:05 PM // 13:05

who cares about punishment, if as a result the pathetic tiebreaker will be changed then it was all for good.

Jae Onasi · Feb 07, 2009, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Well, the 2 guilds pushed past the envelope with the conga line silliness, and they got hand-slapped for it. I don't know what else Anet could have done at this point. You could disqualify them both for a time but actually keeping them out when they might have multiple accounts would likely have been impossible. IP bans may not work because a lot of ISPs have dynamic IPs, and it's not that hard to find a proxy anyway. We also don't have full access to discussions with the players involved, so it's hard for us on this side of things to know what Anet knows.

This is about the only way Anet could make a point about the unfairness of the guilds' behavior until they get new rules/penalties put into place.

Masseur · Feb 07, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17

I think Anet and the ones pulling the strings (we just found out who) owe the rest of the Guilds and GW community a major apology. And if those involved were truely worthy of anything they have achieved in the past would voluntarily give up their rankings, trim and be excluded from the next few tournaments.

But it's not likely to happen because we know they are not worthy or this wouldn't have happened in the first place. And you know they wouldn't allow Anet to punish them at all.

Dmitri3 · Feb 07, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Are you intentionally misreading?? He wants ANet to punish all guilds equally. A guild got remove from a whole season for TRYING to cheat! Rawr and Zero ACTUALLY CHEATED and nothing happens? Is that really that hard to understand???

Draw isn't the same as asking to resign, plain and simple. I don't know what you're trying to argue over here. You can easily say that intentional draw in no way manipulates the ladder because ladder isn't affected.

The "anet favors rawr" has been discussed to death, and in my opinion, is pretty silly. Anyhow, I don't see the point of arguing over something that has been decided already.

Michael805 · Feb 07, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi

Well, the 2 guilds pushed past the envelope with the conga line silliness, and they got hand-slapped for it. I don't know what else Anet could have done at this point. You could disqualify them both for a time but actually keeping them out when they might have multiple accounts would likely have been impossible. IP bans may not work because a lot of ISPs have dynamic IPs, and it's not that hard to find a proxy anyway. We also don't have full access to discussions with the players involved, so it's hard for us on this side of things to know what Anet knows.

This is about the only way Anet could make a point about the unfairness of the guilds' behavior until they get new rules/penalties put into place.

You really want them to IP ban 16 of the better player Guild Wars has to offer? Why, so we can watch bspike on normal ladder, and bad guilds (or KMD finally) get gold next monthly? What a joke.

All these 2 guilds did was take advantage of a game mechanic, just like iQ did in the GWFC. Get off your high horse. I bet you've never even played ladder.

¿Evan¿ · Feb 07, 2009, 06:02 PM // 18:02

IMO an exploit is an exploit just like the duping and mallyx outpost they exploited the game and should be banned.