Curse

Apollo Smile · Apr 09, 2009, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

It's because most of them have had it that way all of their lives and don't know any different. They are the children of entitlement. The internet just gives them a big soap box to stand on and criticize anything that doesn't satisfy their own personal agendas. They spew out hurtful statements with little regard to other peoples feelings. No skills update!! The sky must be falling!! Please remember it is only a game, not real serious stuff.

Eh people are just bored and enjoy drama. Also wow at "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 323" Things are just heating up!

Another Felldspar · Apr 09, 2009, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

You know, the complaints that skill updates make the game more interesting because you have to change up what you use and etc. make me wonder.

Do people never try out new things just for the fun of it? Why do they need a skill update to force change? I mean, when I get bored with something, I don't wait for something else to make me change what I'm doing - I just mix it up on my own.

Maybe that's just me, though.

Yep, sure do. But that doesn't mean that the team does, it certainly doesn't mean that the monsters do. And, it just doesn't hit that creative spot that reading the new skill description the first time and wondering how it's going to change the way you play -- what's going to work well with it, what needs to be pulled because of it, what monsters will need to be approached differently... It isn't just switching up a build from the skills that you already had to work with, it's CHANGE, and it's throughout the game, and that's what makes it cool.

I'm not complaining that the skill update isn't taking place this month, I can certainly understand and appreciate the team being stretched to the limit on the Quarterly. I do very much appreciate their work, and the fact that they are testing the work -- I generally turn down Beta invitations as bugs are frustrating -- I'm just saying that in general skill updates are one of the best parts of Guild Wars. They help make the game fun. I'm actually really looking forward to whatever is going to appear in the new update, especially if there is new content (read: red dots) involved.

Coverticus · Apr 09, 2009, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topinambour

Come on A11Eur0, Ô prophet among the prophets, god among the gods, hallowed be thy name etc.. Do you hear yourself ? You're self-centered, and seeing everyone else as a kid. Besides you believe what regina said. Don't be so naive and try to grow up please

While I don't agree with the "kids" bit, I do agree with the whole business of what ANet are giving us shortly. Have you worked as a developer? Do you understand the complexities of coding, testing and delivering a major update? I doubt it. When you are overhauling certain features (adding to them in general), there is so much that could go wrong. And you don't want to be muddying the water with extra changes that are external to the main update.

It is plain to see how much effort the devs and all have put into this update but still its not good enough for some here. So we dont have a skill update, they have prioritised the update based upon what they feel is best. So instead of giving them crap about all of this, some thanks might be nice since they have gone above and beyond the call of duty to release something like this. Did they have to? No. Since this is not a pay-per-month game, realistically they don't have to give us a thing, apart from server/game maintenance and the likes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

Eh people are just bored and enjoy drama. Also wow at "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 323" Things are just heating up!

Agree, this most certainly is not an appreciation thread!!

Martin Firestorm · Apr 09, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ]HM[ Sabre Wolf

Hey Regina, I think everyone, even most PvPers, are looking for the BIG update with the storage and HoM then anything else...

You seriously think most pvp players are fired up about stoarge and HoM? Either you don't pvp or you're kissing some serious ass, or both.

Another Felldspar · Apr 09, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

tbh i think saying "people will have different reactions" is a lame excuse to defend anet's decisions on game updates. do they not know their game or community well enough to know what kind of reaction people will have? this months update obviously caters to a specific demographic, so its pretty obvious as to what kind of reaction you will get from people who fit that demographic and people that don't.

they chose to ignore the skill balance update, and its really as simple as that. this is an indication of what the developers place importance on in their game first and foremost, and how the community will perceive it second. i wouldn't be surprised at all if the current gw1 devs cared more about minipets and tonics and the storage to keep them in, than they do about skill balance. since izzy is pretty much absent (afaik), who over there cares deeply about skill balance?

There are many different demographics to work with, that doesn't make Regina's explanation lame, it makes it sensical.

In my alliance there are elite area farmers, title hunters, competitive mission players & AB'ers, arena players, what I'll call grind farmers because they do the same monsters -- like raptors -- over and over again. There are people who love change and people who hate change, people who think the most important thing in the world is how many titles you have, and people who think that the most important thing is how good your armor looks when you're standing in the guildhall. Multiply that 5 million times over and you have the community.

Whether you think it's lame or not the truth is some people, the people who have the part of the game that they most like positively impacted by the update, will be thrilled. And the people that have the aspect that they love the most negatively impacted by the update -- like you -- will be bitchy.

In the long run A-Net has to please some of the people some of the time. It's all they can do. They chose to wait on skill update this time the same way that they've chosen to wait on fixing the HOM at other times. It doesn't mean that they don't care about skill updates -- read Regina's OP once more -- if they didn't care about skill update they could push out some kinda garbage and moved on. But they do. And they also care about PvE updates, and they care about finding minis that people like, and they care about how many places people have to put the 8 sets of armor they bought because they like to change clothes. This time your little corner of the world didn't get the attention. Insulting the devs because of it just makes you look ignorant.

Martin Firestorm · Apr 09, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe

I dont know what to do, on the one hand I want to become an adult so I can use swears and order pizzas, but on the other hand when I turn adult I should grow up and not play on video games anymore and I should focus on making children.

Life bites. Just use the swears when you can get away with it and let the rest take care of itself. Until then, griefing is your friend.

A11Eur0 · Apr 09, 2009, 07:57 PM // 19:57

If engineers kept making planes that flew like shit, enough so that pilots would complain so much about them, stop flying or crash them, they'd be out of a job. More people play GW than ever, according to the numbers. Sure, that could just be multiple accounts per person, but there's no way of determining that. The Devs made a game where people still play after 4 years, and likely will continue playing for years to come. They did a good job. That's all there is to it. Small changes that piss off a select few people aren't much at all in the grand scheme of things. Skill changes are meaningless...as long as there are multiple skills to choose from, there will be people taking advantage of obscure overpowered combinations. I'd prefer they spend most of their energy streamlining more widespread changes like this coming update. More storage, more efficient ways of storing things, these are things that benefit every player, not just a few PVP'ers who can't do anything but run the meta.

Krill · Apr 09, 2009, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Three cheers for another month of warrior's endurance, smiting and omega spikes...oh **** me

Topinambour · Apr 09, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

It is not as if changes were unrevertable, the live team could actually attach a small skill updates - directed to the most broken ones - even with the smiter's boon method, as long as there are changes, the crowd will be happy. So that we could have both the pvers and the pvpers satisfied.

riktw · Apr 09, 2009, 08:25 PM // 20:25

programming can be hell, change 1 thing and you can get about 100 bugs.
you find about 50 of them, 2 hours before you release it you find another 30 and the players find the other 20 and exploit them like hell.

Topinambour · Apr 09, 2009, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Something we must all recall is that it's the fourth year of GW. I think they must be used to updates in the end, don't they ?

Zahr Dalsk · Apr 09, 2009, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by riktw

programming can be hell, change 1 thing and you can get about 100 bugs.
you find about 50 of them, 2 hours before you release it you find another 30 and the players find the other 20 and exploit them like hell.

Maybe if your coding is horrendously bad? How hard can it be to change the variables on skills?

A11Eur0 · Apr 09, 2009, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Again we get people who probably have never spent a day coding a best-selling computer game in their lives saying "how hard can it be?"

I don't code, I never had interest in it, and I will not sit there and say "how hard can it be" because I know that it's more than just going in and saying "change XX to YY."

TalanRoarer · Apr 09, 2009, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Anyone have any ideas if/when the Z-keys are coming today..?
Sorry if i misread the opening post but i was under the impression they are coming today/night?

Still Number One · Apr 09, 2009, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

The Devs made a game where people still play after 4 years, and likely will continue playing for years to come.

Sorry to break it to you, but no they didn't. There may be some PvE players who have played the game since release and that is great. It's because new things kept getting added and their "game" hasn't changed that drastically over time. Sure some builds were killed here and there and some means of farming are no longer viable, but the premise of the game is still the same and anyone can do it. For some people that and the friends they have made through guilds and other various teams has made this game enjoyable enough for them to play for 4 years.

In PvP there are like maybe 2 or 3 people who have played GvG competitively and were top competitors in the GWWC and GWFC days. And very few people who played competitively but weren't top 100 material. The majority of those players left the game because the game got stale and the ones who stayed past Nightfall eventually left because the game became so broken and unbearable that they could no longer tolerate it and accepted the fact that all hope was lost of the game going back to its so called "glory days". That and the fact that real life prizes are nonexistent unless you sell gold which is against the rules i guess.

The point is, players have come and gone across the pvp scene, new guilds rise and eventually fall victim to the horrible skill balancing and quit the game.

It isn't a matter of oh no you are ignoring us this month and only catering to the PvE crowd. It is more of a, your game is extremely broken and needs to be fixed and rather than spending time putting useless things into the game like more storage (and it is useless, you don't need 800 sets of armor I'm sorry) you should be spending your time discussing with the community the issues that surround balance and doing everything you can to fix this, even if that includes taking people off GW2 to concentrate matters on the real issue at hand.

Also I believe it was you who said we are kids for demanding skill updates every month like we deserve them. And in essence we do deserve them every month, until the game is balanced (or at least enjoyable to play again). When you make a game, you make it in hopes that it is the greatest game of its time. If you aren't trying to make the game the best it can be, why are you in this business? If it is to just make money, then I'm sorry but why should I support you? The developers do owe us their ears (or in this case eyes) to our opinions and do need to take them into consideration to allow this game to be the best it possibly can be. Right now we are far from what this game can be, and making it the best it can be should be their top priority.

And if you are going to say, if you don't like it go play another game, sorry but Guild Wars is the only game right now with the PvP to potentially be the greatest the gaming world has ever seen. Even in this crappy state it is in, it still is the best out there, or very close to it. But it still needs to be fixed.

Apollo Smile · Apr 09, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenC777

Anyone have any ideas if/when the Z-keys are coming today..?
Sorry if i misread the opening post but i was under the impression they are coming today/night?

Yes, Zaishen Keys and the new tonic will be out later on today.

A11Eur0 · Apr 09, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

The point is there are still tons of people playing GW. If GW all of a sudden stopped getting new players and old players did a mass exodus, you'd have a point. What are you breaking to me, that you'll agree with what I said? There are people playing since release. Period. I never said everyone. I never said what they did. I said they're playing. I've been playing since release. That alone proves my statement.

the game isn't broken. If the game was broken, there would be the same people winning everything every month, there would be a 100% or near-100% rate of completion in speed clear groups. This doesn't happen. The game isn't broken because there's nothing seriously imbalanced enough to make every strategy that isn't Flavor of the month fail hardcore. Just because most players go up against a strong build that has more than 2 players running the same elite skill and don't have the ability to counter it, doesn't mean that elite skill is overpowered, it means those players need to learn how to make new builds to counter these new strategies.

Coverticus · Apr 09, 2009, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Maybe if your coding is horrendously bad? How hard can it be to change the variables on skills?

Harder than you realise, since it may not just be variables that they would change on a particular skill.

Its a pyramid effect though. An example being they decide to change the functionality of Dwayna's Kiss. Enchantment and hex based for the heal buff is kept but they decide to add conditions into the heal as well. Voila, an overpowered skill in the making.

So you code it, the new variable values take effect. You then have to check how it performs in three environments - PvP, PvE Player and PvE foe. The foes are tested per area, checking each generic monster that uses it to make sure nothing is too bad. They find that, in the hands of compentant parties, all of a sudden the foe monks using this skill are now outhealing the damage being done. So thats a bug right off the bat. Back they go to tweak it. You then find that, due to the change in the functionality of skill, the foe's AI uses it not as expected. So off you go again to root out why and fix it accordingly. The same will be for PvP and PvE skill bars (minus the AI!). So its a continuous process that you will never truely know what the change of a simple few variables will mean to any environment.

I have over simplified this something rotten but I hope it gives you an glimmer of an idea of how complex things are....

TalanRoarer · Apr 09, 2009, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

Yes, Zaishen Keys and the new tonic will be out later on today.

ta

Just hope its soon, 21:48 here ^^

moriz · Apr 09, 2009, 08:54 PM // 20:54

GW AI is much simpler than that. from what i've seen, they operate based on a script, with each individual skill usage scripted in. this explains why the AI does not (or at least, DID not) use healing burst properly, because it is (or was) scripted as a point blank heal even after the function change.