Curse

Targren · Apr 21, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

While the Naming Policy is new, they're just a more detailed set of guidelines that already exist in the User Agreement. There's nothing new about how Support is enforcing the User Agreement. What has happened is that issuing the Naming Policy has directed attention to these issues.

I don't think "more detailed" is entirely accurate. "Overbroad" fits better. We're now expected to be familiar with the languages and cultures of more than 30 countries (assuming every country in the EU is served) so that we don't inadvertently use some otherwise innocuous word that has a slang meaning, or even one in our own language that does.

Example: "Papa Bear" Seems fairly safe. Pretty much part of our cultural history, what with Goldilocks and the Berenstein Bears (And Hogan's Heroes).

"Papa" is also a way to say "potato" in Spanish. It is also, unfortunately, a slang term for a certain part of the female anatomy. So some uppity complainer can make a report that "Papa Bear" is "obviously" a reference to a naked lower-half-of-a-woman.

Honestly, if bans are going to be handed out for this kind of thing, there's really got to be some allowances/direction here, whether it be expanding the filters (good luck with that) or, preferably, giving the accused a chance to justify the name.

Tullzinski · Apr 21, 2009, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

And if I'm asked to change it, I shall, because thats the rules of the game I'm playing

Not the point Lone...the point is where does the political correctness stop? I think your name is pretty good, but there may be some idiot that wants to be offended is genuinely offended or maliciously report you. Then you end up being punished and having to change a cool name that is not in any way offensive to 99% of normal people. There are too many feelings being allowed to drive policy. The feelings of political correctness.

I read this earlier today and think it really hits the mark:

"Political correctness is not thinking; it's feeling. It's about how you feel. "Are you offended?" That defines what somebody else can say or not."

ANETs rules are not driving policy, these rules are allowing players to drive what is banned or not by how they FEEL, either maliciously or otherwise.

I do not disagree with the rules. I do disagree that someone who is pissed at you for some imagined offense, or the naming police (hi red) running around making the decision based on what they FEEL may be an infraction.

Is Grenths Tylek or Melandrus Piers offensive to you???

Lonesamurai · Apr 21, 2009, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

The updated Naming Policy was only posted as a general login announcement to the community this past weekend - considerably after 2 April.

and wrong again

there was no update on April 2nd, however Regina posted as a Clarification and REMINDER because of the current issues

now I've let Martin and Regina know about this and asked for clarification of it being in the current T&C we agreed to when they were last updated for us to agree to on log in and if they are, then everyone using your argument have nothing to argue about

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tullzinski

Not the point Lone...the point is where does the political correctness stop? I think your name is pretty good, but there may be some idiot that wants to be offended is genuinely offended or maliciously report you. Then you end up being punished and having to change a cool name that is not in any way offensive to 99% of normal people. There are too many feelings being allowed to drive policy. The feelings of political correctness.

I read this earlier today and think it really hits the mark:

"Political correctness is not thinking; it's feeling. It's about how you feel. "Are you offended?" That defines what somebody else can say or not."

ANETs rules are not driving policy, these rules are allowing players to drive what is banned or not by how they FEEL, either maliciously or otherwise.

I do not disagree with the rules. I do disagree that someone who is pissed at you for some imagined offense, or the naming police (hi red) running around making the decision based on what they FEEL may be an infraction.

Is Grenths Tylek or Melandrus Piers offensive to you???

on the political correctness I am totally with you, but its ona far wider scale than just the game, but my political world views and idealsare not part of the conversation here

and no, neither of those are offense names to me

Tullzinski · Apr 21, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

on the political correctness I am totally with you, but its ona far wider scale than just the game, but my political world views and idealsare not part of the conversation here

and no, neither of those are offense names to me

The concept seems the same to me.

As I am sure you surmised those were trick names. Those names while not being offensive looking are both bad in the polish language:

Grenths Ass and Melandrus Breast. However it is Melandrus Piers that can have dual interpretations;
A pier can be a pillar or post. Not a bad name for a guild of Melandrus followers. But in polish you are screwed and banned.

This goes back to one of my ealier posts about being able to clean up your own house without being punished too much (or at all for that matter). In light of the naming policy clarification earlier this month, we should be allowed to submit our own infractions to clean them up and bring them in line with the clarification.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

No, your political or world views are not part of the conversation. Neither are mine. Why then are we being asked to consider everyone else's views/culture/language when naming a character or guild when that is impossible?

That is a great point!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

There is actually proof of this in this thread.
As you are clearly violating the terms and conditions of the rules of conduct for the report system. You are intentionally drawing malicious and unwanted attention to said characters you feel you need to so adamantly report every day. And you cannot tell me that this is an actual false claim or that you are being targeted here because you, by your own volition, have admitted that causing this distress to other players is actually your goal. (see parts in bold and underlined)

I have to agree this is not different from the guy who jizzed himself when he got the guild banned. Nice catch!!!

FalconDance · Apr 21, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

and wrong again

there was no update on April 2nd, however Regina posted as a Clarification and REMINDER because of the current issues

The Naming Policy was added as a clarification on April 2. At the very bottom of the document, it clearly says "Updated 2 April, 2009. That is what I said. There was NO updated Terms to sign before login on that date, therefore your saying that if I'd not agreed to the policy by signing the updated agreement, I'd not been allowed to log in to play. Apparently, Anet did not see it as important enough to announce as a Terms update or amendment. Not everyone comes to guru or any other forum. Not everyone visits the official GW site frequently. Therefore, reasonably, if you want the players to know of a major change or clarification of rules they are expected to abide by, you should post them in the one place they would see them - ingame on the login screen or clearly highlighted in a new Terms to sign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

now I've let Martin and Regina know about this and asked for clarification of it being in the current T&C we agreed to when they were last updated for us to agree to on log in and if they are, then everyone using your argument have nothing to argue about

See above comment. There was no updated Terms to sign on 2 April, the date which the clarified Naming Policy went into effect. Nor has there been one since.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

on the political correctness I am totally with you, but its ona far wider scale than just the game, but my political world views and idealsare not part of the conversation here

and no, neither of those are offense names to me

No, your political or world views are not part of the conversation. Neither are mine. Why then are we being asked to consider everyone else's views/culture/language when naming a character or guild when that is impossible?

Tullzinski · Apr 21, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Holy Crap don't get banned for a naming infraction soon! I found this tidbit on wiki:

If your account is temporarily banned on a character's birthday they do not recieve a gift.

That would suck huge!!!

Lonesamurai · Apr 21, 2009, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

The Naming Policy was added as a clarification on April 2. At the very bottom of the document, it clearly says "Updated 2 April, 2009. That is what I said. There was NO updated Terms to sign before login on that date, therefore your saying that if I'd not agreed to the policy by signing the updated agreement, I'd not been allowed to log in to play. Apparently, Anet did not see it as important enough to announce as a Terms update or amendment. Not everyone comes to guru or any other forum. Not everyone visits the official GW site frequently. Therefore, reasonably, if you want the players to know of a major change or clarification of rules they are expected to abide by, you should post them in the one place they would see them - ingame on the login screen or clearly highlighted in a new Terms to sign.

See above comment. There was no updated Terms to sign on 2 April, the date which the clarified Naming Policy went into effect. Nor has there been one since.

No, your political or world views are not part of the conversation. Neither are mine. Why then are we being asked to consider everyone else's views/culture/language when naming a character or guild when that is impossible?

And honestly? if you feel that they themselves are breaking their own T&C's then you need to contact support and say as much to them

Hell, from a community rep. point of view, I've mentioned an update and making players accept the T&C's again may be a good idea, but that's upto them to implement... as like you I am merely another voice from the ether and whether I get on with people there or not, I am just another player and my voice carries no more weight than yours does

and whats wrng with considering other people when we do things? you say your a mother? do you not get annoyed by what your kids may see in game from other players, because maybe some of the reports are from annoyed parents and maybe ANet just want to crack down on that aswell as other (and I'm not flaming you as a mother at all, please don't take it that way, I'm just asking)

FalconDance · Apr 21, 2009, 07:39 PM // 19:39

You all will be happy to know that :

Quote:

Support has not increased monitoring or reaction to reports of offensive names. The Naming Policy only clarifies existing language within the User Agreement. Nothing has changed in terms of enforcement on the Support end.

.......... what matters is not intention, but whether the name breaks the rules.

How they got from what is in the Terms to what they slammed us with on 2 April is beyond me. It is not clarification, it is wholesale re-fabrication!

As I told Regina, it was understood you were not to use pejorative terms, vulgarity or blatant sexual references in your name(s). It was understood, not defined within the Terms. Of course, some folks ignored public decency understanding and named their characters whatever they thought would shock people or gain them the most attention. But these were few in relation to the majority, I should think, and quickly dealt with as, well, offensive to the majority.

Where does it stop? How far will Anet go before it trips on the rope it's using to string so many of its players up with? Will they bring game content into agreement with their own new policy or will they continue to flaunt their "sole discretion" to the detriment of their players?

FalconDance · Apr 21, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

And honestly? if you feel that they themselves are breaking their own T&C's then you need to contact support and say as much to them

I am in correspondence with my Community Relations person, Regina. See, I was in the military once upon a time and believe in using the chain of command. Beyond that, I have never found Support to be helpful, useful or adept at solving anything when I contacted them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Hell, from a community rep. point of view, I've mentioned an update and making players accept the T&C's again may be a good idea, but that's upto them to implement... as like you I am merely another voice from the ether and whether I get on with people there or not, I am just another player and my voice carries no more weight than yours does

This (a wholesale announcement and re-signing of the amended Terms) should have been done on 2 April. Agreed. To hold people retroactively to a policy that went into effect less than three weeks ago - which did not exist until then - is ludicrous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

and whats wrng with considering other people when we do things? you say your a mother? do you not get annoyed by what your kids may see in game from other players, because maybe some of the reports are from annoyed parents and maybe ANet just want to crack down on that aswell as other (and I'm not flaming you as a mother at all, please don't take it that way, I'm just asking)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with considering others. I commend anyone who does so, especially when it is not expected or even perhaps warranted. However, Anet did not give us even that decency. They acted as an authoritarian father and TOLD us after the fact that these were the house rules and that if we had inadvertently broken the rules in the past, we would now be punished at will and without warning or prejudice.

I suspect that reports from angry parents spur more from those who ordinarily don't pay much attention to what their child is doing anyhow then suddenly look in to see something off-color. It is at that point they remember they're the parent, become self-righteously angry and complain. I am NOT saying that all parental reports are like this by any means, but I would bet that a great many are.

Our younger son started playing when he was 16. He's now 21. (It's the way his birthday fell, not that I can't count

.) He has certainly commented on the profanity used by some individuals ingame - then he turns his filter on so he doesn't have to be subjected to their idiocy and attention-seeking ways if he chooses not. If my children had been younger when they started, I'd have likely insisted the filter be always on to weed out the attention seekers. As for naming, Anet has always banned or disciplined the blatant abusers, and through the years I have seen few slip through the cracks. Of course, I haven't seen every single player, but I have tallied many, many hours on many, many characters.

Fitz Rinley · Apr 21, 2009, 08:33 PM // 20:33

First of all, I purchased 2 Prophecies, 2 Factions, Nightfall, GW:EN and every bonus pack available. I purchased my first game with the advertised rating of Teen. This is defined as:

Quote:

TEEN Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

I purchased two accounts and one factions expansion under this advertisement. I purchased one Factions account under PEGI, presumably because they failed in their production management to meat pre-order purchases and had to ship me one from a European source. This advertised rating is:

Quote:

PEGI 12+ - Videogames that show violence of a slightly more graphic nature towards fantasy character and/or non graphic violence towards human-looking characters or recognisable animals, as well as videogames that show nudity of a slightly more graphic nature would fall in this age category. Any bad language in this category must be mild and fall short of sexual expletives.

The policies, both original and current, are in violation of the advertised ratings. Inuendo that represents Crude Humor or Suggestive Themes are within the advertised ratings. What is not permitted is direct "sexual expletives."

Problems with the current list:
* Have offensive racial, ethnic, or national connotations.
ANet will not bother, nor are players required, to be tolerant of things that are artistic without racial, ethnic, or national connotations. I pointed out the wonderful sonic expression Skidwaller Wopwop. This name cannot be used because of the letters w o p. It is a completely legitimate and banned name.
* Reference sexual acts or real life violence.
There is a child's rhyme for learning motor skills, "Little Bunny Foo-foo" where the offending bunny is chided for being abusive to animals. The name has pejorative meaning in a Melanesian language, obviously the traditional Europeans that created the song Knew this and did it just to use the sexual meaning of a language they were not speaking.
* Are pornographic.
Just did the Surmia mission. Redeye the Unholy and Jaw Smokeskin seem pretty porno to me. Just why is that one eye red and unholy? And what kind of skin is that Charr smoking with that jaw?
* Make inappropriate references to human anatomy or bodily functions.
Wow, since ANet named the boss Frostbite, and bite means a part of male anatomy in French slang, then they must have meant for his name to mean cold peter, and further he is a white guy, so it is obviously a racist slur.
* Reference illegal drugs or activities.
Ofcourse, Jaws Smokeskin might be smoking something besides Burntfur. (See how easy it is to misconstrue a meaning?)
* Reference major religious figures.
And here, ANet gets to judge whose religious figures matter. What is their criteria? How did they attain such a great erudition as to be the determiners of what is or is not a god, a prophet, a saint, etc. Does this include the coven leader for Geal-Darach? What about the Father-of-Saint, in Candomble? Does that religion count? Can they distinguish between Budha (not a religious figure) and Buddha (a religious figure)? Do they know the difference between Zarathushtra and Zarthushti? Not only do I suspect they are inpertinent in assigning to themselves the authority to determine whose religion is of value, I doubt they are sufficiently educated to even begin enforcing this facet of their New Rules.
* Reference certain real-life people that may cause distress (e.g. Hitler).
And you ofcourse include Alexander in this as well, right? George (Washington) is out as well. Afterall, Alexander the Accursed is still a hated figure for his destruction of Persepolis. Washington is still called Destroyer-of-Towns by the Five Civilized Nations.

The reason ANet is wielding the ban stick like an imbecile is because they have entered into an arena where they are incapable of Ever being sufficiently educated to make an adequate decision. Instead of asking someone what something means, or where it comes from, they are attacking their customer base out of hand because of their own ignorance and being too ignorant to ask a question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

This thread shouldn't be closed until anet calms down. Just because someone reports doesn't mean you have to issue a ban. If it's blatant like 'i swear she was eighteen[gwen]' then fine, that is acceptable. What happened to Kaon's guild(s) was absolutely ridiculous.

I disagree, even I thought it was slightly offensive.

You thought what was offensive - the use of an African American linguistic term (Sucka) formatted to meet the limitations imposed by the game (SuKa). Your prejudice against African American/Urban cultural heritage is offensive, and so is ANets for attacking an Ebonics word because some white supremacist wanted to be offended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

I don't hold myself to the same standards as a gamer, but professionally, i can totally agree with them [ANet] about it as this is a big issue for them...

What part of being illogical (expecting people to function outside of the experiences even possible in their life), supporting intolerance, and promoting malicious action for self-advantage is professional? What part of breaking their own rules is professional? What part of punishing people for using their own real name, their own real heritage, their own cultural and national background, or copying from another out of respect for what it represents is professional?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Yeah ... , but isn't it surely better to just air on the side of caution though

They are not erring on the side of caution. They are erring on the side of intolerance, prejudice, and extremism. It is much more cautious to err on the side of toleration than to promote hatred and misunderstanding. By allowing people to think that Bite in English means the same thing as it does in French, they tell people the English sentence, "Here try a bite of this," while being proferred a sandwhich means they are being offered a penis sandwhich. And yes, I note that you have completely ignored that fact. They are holding people accountable for meanings in languages they do not speak, are not interested in, and do not understand. My family has many Hispanics in it. If I name a character Chachi El Rojo, I am not naming him "The Little Red Penis". But anyone who speaks Korean may take it out of context and have the name banned by interpreting it as a sexual rather than a cutlural reference. What if a computer programmer decides to name his character Poji Sim, meaing Plain Old Java Interface and Subscriber Identity Module? How is s/he supposed to know this means vaginal core in Korean? And why should someone who speaks another language be given power to destroy personal, religious, political, and artistic expressions in the language I use rather than tolerate the difference of something that is Different and Alien to themselves? The new policy is imbecilic and ignorant while promoting intolerance, and especially intolerance where it can grief other players and guilds for self-gain.

Lonesamurai · Apr 21, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

You thought what was offensive - the use of an African American linguistic term (Sucka) formatted to meet the limitations imposed by the game (SuKa). Your prejudice against African American/Urban cultural heritage is offensive, and so is ANets for attacking an Ebonics word because some white supremacist wanted to be offended.

No, I thought "Endangered Feces [DoDo]" was offensive enough that I can see why someone would report it

and as for Suka? The only way I see "Super Kaon Action Team [SuKa]" being offensive is how Kaon thinks he's gods gift to Guild Wars

(<3 you anyway Kaon)

But please, carry on calling me racist, I'll happily carry on seeing my Afro Carribean girlfriend in the knowledge that I'm not

Fitz Rinley · Apr 21, 2009, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

No, I thought "Endangered Feces [DoDo]" was offensive enough that I can see why someone would report it

and as for Suka? The only way I see "Super Kaon Action Team [SuKa]" being offensive is how Kaon thinks he's gods gift to Guild Wars

(<3 you anyway Kaon)

But please, carry on calling me racist, I'll happily carry on seeing my Afro Carribean girlfriend in the knowledge that I'm not

, Oh my, you mean that it is possible that something taken out of context or twisted slightly for the use or advantage of the proponent might be inaccurate? Wow, what a revelation! And here to think ANet could only get things one hundred percent correct because they could do what Skinner could not and see inside the Black Box.

, Thank you for walking into my set-up. So if you are not a racist, and maybe that Pole was just a selfish dipwad instead of white supremacist, then just maybe ANet's assumption that supporting those who choose to be offended and ignorant is just as wrong!

(Gotchya)

As I stated before and state again, this should be the policy:

Quote:

This is a community of members from various traditions, various philosophies, and various levels of creativity. Participation in this community requires that you be tolerant of those differences. If you find something is crass, crude, or tactless you are not obligated to support that person. You are free to move to a different district. You are free to party with someone else. However, we promote toleration of those things which do not cross the legal boundaries of acceptability in the nation where the player resides.

It is not a question of what is technically capable of being in any twisted, stretched, or violent manner forced under the heading of violation. What we have to use as a standard is Pruriant measure. If it is not obvious to the average member of the nation wherein the player resides as a violation of the rules, then it is Not a violation of the rules.

FalconDance · Apr 21, 2009, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

No, I thought "Endangered Feces [DoDo]" was offensive enough that I can see why someone would report it

Dodo is an extinct bird. I doubt anyone would take offense at naming anything after one, really.

I do, however, find the name "Endangered Feces" to be distasteful. I'm not sure I'd say offended because the ones who came up with the name are not really all that creative or intelligent (judging by the name which seems rather middle-school and immature).

Fril Estelin · Apr 21, 2009, 09:08 PM // 21:08

This thread illustrates perfectly why this topic is extremely delicate. Everyone has good and bad arguments on both sides of the "fence". But Anet has to be this "fence" and bear the consequences of their choice on these policies. Many players only see their side of the argument, each participant of this thread has some kind of "logic" to base its argument on. But there isn't a sound and formal logic that can be used as a common ground for a foolproof policy, hence the problem of finding a middle ground, that will undoubtedly lead to making some players angry. People who (rigthfully) blame Anet for stupid bans should also highlight the fact that they reversed some of these bans.

Lonesamurai · Apr 21, 2009, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

Dodo is an extinct bird. I doubt anyone would take offense at naming anything after one, really.

I do, however, find the name "Endangered Feces" to be distasteful. I'm not sure I'd say offended because the ones who came up with the name are not really all that creative or intelligent (judging by the name which seems rather middle-school and immature).

And its the "Feces" bit that got it banned fromwhat I can tell, but I'll put it in Kaon's own words

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Kaon

I'm so incredibly disappointed. My guild has played over 1500 gvgs within 5 months. Keeping the game alive, and being incredibly important to the game. But of course the reward is just a load of ****:

Quote:

The guild "Endangered Feces [DoDo]" has been banned for having an inappropriate name. Guilds that are banned are no longer able to enjoy the normal benefits of a standard guild, and they will have to be disbanded and reformed to regain those privileges. It is very important that guild names do not violate our Rules of Conduct or User Agreement, as they are very visible and we do not tolerate names that are directly profane or obscene by insinuation.

Has anyone seen Stanley Kubricks masterpiece Paths of Glory? I feel exactly like the executed soldiers in that movie. Despite showing bravery and doing everything right, you still get ****ed over eventhough everyone knows its ridiculous.

Fitz Rinley · Apr 21, 2009, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

This thread illustrates perfectly why this topic is extremely delicate. Everyone has good and bad arguments on both sides of the "fence". But Anet has to be this "fence" and bear the consequences of their choice on these policies. Many players only see their side of the argument, each participant of this thread has some kind of "logic" to base its argument on. But there isn't a sound and formal logic that can be used as a common ground for a foolproof policy, hence the problem of finding a middle ground, that will undoubtedly lead to making some players angry. People who (rigthfully) blame Anet for stupid bans should also highlight the fact that they reversed some of these bans.

Fril, you are mistaking Pathos for Ethos. The opposed side does not have an Ethos, they do not have a fundamental basis in jurisprudence, formal logic, or ethics. They have a foundation only in feelings. I know the difference. I am not the kind of person to determine murdering someone for committing murder is logical, or the fundament supporting capital punishment.

You are correct. There can be no common formal logic between those who execute logical argument and those who execute argument from a perspective of ignorance and personal feeling. That is why the only acceptable argument is from postive evidence.

ANet follows the advertised rating or commits fraud.
ANet requires toleration or they support intolerance.
ANet ceases to assume the negative without real evidence, or they convict and punish the innocent.

It is no-longer acceptable for the ignorant and the witch-hunter to attack people because they choose to interpret others through a dirty and ignorant mind. It is no longer acceptable for people to attack others because they can use the terms politically correct and offended as weapons to ruin other peoples lives. It is no longer acceptable to use fear of someone being intolerant through PC to increase rules to a level that they cannot be enforced without causing more harm than good. More importantly, it never should have been allowed to begin with. This is why the only acceptable and logical policy is to promote toleration and follow the advertised ratings in their definition as a guideline.

Fril Estelin · Apr 21, 2009, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

There can be no common formal logic between those who execute logical argument and those who execute argument from a perspective of ignorance and personal feeling.

This is not what I said. I said that in essence you do not have more logic than Anet, in the sense that there can't be any in the classical meaning of the word "logic". In short: this policy IS about emotions, those provoked by names, so you can't avoid the situation we're currently discussing and certainly not devise a foolproof policy. Hence NCsoft/Anet's attitude to consider each case individually and keep the guidance to a bare minimum.

If english names with "bite" are now forbidden, I can only see that as a technical limitation (because they can't enforce district-dependent policies), not a contractual one. If only people stuck to "first names" and avoided trying to make sentences, we'd be in a better situation. I know fully well it's not completely exact, but I also know something much more important (years of experience): the more you make this issue visible and "socially important", the less satisfying the situation will become due to Anet being forced to take actions that will lead to more unsatisfaction.

Fitz Rinley · Apr 22, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

This is not what I said. I said that in essence you do not have more logic than Anet, in the sense that there can't be any in the classical meaning of the word "logic". In short: this policy IS about emotions, those provoked by names, so you can't avoid the situation we're currently discussing and certainly not devise a foolproof policy. Hence NCsoft/Anet's attitude to consider each case individually and keep the guidance to a bare minimum.

If english names with "bite" are now forbidden, I can only see that as a technical limitation (because they can't enforce district-dependent policies), not a contractual one. If only people stuck to "first names" and avoided trying to make sentences, we'd be in a better situation. I know fully well it's not completely exact, but I also know something much more important (years of experience): the more you make this issue visible and "socially important", the less satisfying the situation will become due to Anet being forced to take actions that will lead to more unsatisfaction.

If you treat these 10 to 100 year old bouncy baby blue and baby pink people like they do not have to grow up and tolerate others then that is what you will continue to get and have. ANet will either require toleration of other heritages, other languages, other nationalities - allowed to live freely within their own borders according to their own laws and customs, or they will contribute to intolerance, bigotry, chauvinism (European meaning), and those attitudes that lead to isolationism and war. The morale and ambiance in which you play will become the world in which you live; practice makes habit.

The only correct action ANet can take is to abide completely and in full with the definitions of the terms in the ESRB rating. If they do so they are legitimate. If they do not do so they are fraudulent and hypocritical. If abiding by the definition of their advertised rating loses players who lack the toleration and maturity to play with others that can only improve the game.

More importantly, yes, they can leave people alone who are not violating the policy in their own language in their own nation. If they can't then they need to go back to the drawing board and make certain that they can. No one should be accountable for words, especially slang, in a language not their own which they cannot look up. They should not be held accountable for things which they cannot know. I was a soldier dealing with Korean Language, and got to learn some of the better and worse aspects typical of that environment. I was not a soldier in Thailand, Singapore, Afghanistan, India, Yemen, Israel, Turkey, Germany, France, Italy, Hongkong, and thousands of other places.

I do not even know all the inappropriate language in Korean. I have characters named in Korean. I chose those names out of a dictionary, but if the dictionary does not tell me the slang and incorrect usage which the dirty minded and prurient hearted use then I should not be held accountable to their distaste, nor should anyone else.

Let ANet take action that leads to unsatisfaction, this unsatisfaction - Let them have the guts (which they don't because they are cowards) to profess and abide by this policy:

Quote:

This is a community of members from various traditions, various philosophies, and various levels of creativity. Participation in this community requires that you be tolerant of those differences. If you find something is crass, crude, or tactless you are not obligated to support that person. You are free to move to a different district. You are free to party with someone else. However, we promote toleration of those things which do not cross the legal boundaries of acceptability in the nation where the player resides.

And if they aren't cowards let them prove it by posting this and abiding by it.

cataphract · Apr 22, 2009, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

...or they will contribute to intolerance, bigotry, chauvinism (European meaning), and those attitudes that lead to isolationism and war.

Hasn't the history shown us that it's the attitudes of expansion and globalisation that lead to war?

Elephantaliste · Apr 22, 2009, 09:28 AM // 09:28

* Have offensive racial, ethnic, or national connotations.
...
* Reference certain real-life people that may cause distress (e.g. Hitler).

isn't that a bit redundant, and was including an "example" required...