Curse

kedde · Apr 18, 2009, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Oh the irony.

Quote:

self righteous

Empress Amarox · Apr 18, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08

In a related topic, Anet apparently aren't the only ones...

Happy Tree Friends was apparently just banned in Russia

Sleeper Service · Apr 18, 2009, 04:14 PM // 16:14

i just want to know what an inappropriate reference to human anatomy or bodily function is.

So i can talk about it with my nupplelick while whirlypluging into a shlurphole safely.

Fril Estelin · Apr 18, 2009, 04:27 PM // 16:27

The more people put pressure on Anet on the topic of "policies", the worse the situation is actually going to get, because policies will have to be made more formal, enforcement stronger and this is going to cost money, time and a lot of "trust". Anet is currently dealing with these issues in an "ad hoc" manner, which basically means that NCsoft GMs have basic guidance and then use their judgement. And when they get it wrong, a ticket may correct this. In essence this is what this thread is about, correcting an unfortunate mistake. But if you want to go one step closer to a formal policy on names (which will entail a few unexpected aspects for players), be prepared to face the consequences, that may be worse for many of us.

phan · Apr 18, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

A decent solution would be to hire more personnel and check the names upon creation .
Example : I go run to the guild maker in kamadan and enter
"We camp like Anne F[rank]"
then i submit and poof a message to the "Official Anet Name Checker" with the information of the New guild / New player and he should be able to confirm or reject name based on :
» Researching the data on google ; yahoo ; etc
» Researching the data with several dictionary's
» Researching the data with common sense
» ...

This is probably the worst and best solution to our problem . No complaining after creation only whining about rejection . And then remove the stupid report shizzle . Because well , everyone can find something everything .

Example :
Chopchop The Panda : Offensive » I had a panda pet named Shizzle and he was chopped into piece .
Gaile Gray : Offensive » I saw a picture of her and it was so ugly i still have nightmares of it .
Regina : Offensive » Regina is a great figure in my religion . Please ban .
It can go even further , I'll use my (retarded) warrior's name :
Darksin Shanto Ehas : Offensive » Sin refers to a bad thing and shanto refers to Guyanese music so basicly i'm claiming that Guyanese music is a sin . roflwtflmao ? :')

The ban thing is a joke because almost everything is based on personal perception and interpretation .

So Anet , you know what to do ; hire more 'experienced' personnel and fix this retardness .

Mangione · Apr 18, 2009, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Why is all this stuff coming up now?

I've seen in game for long time a lot of names that are offensive, break the rules, and no one bothered about them.

Just few examples:

Benedetto X V I = Benedict 16th, the Pope, the highest figure on earth for my religion... the representative of St.Peter and the voice of Christ on earth. Should I attack and kill a monk named like that in RA? It was a couple of years ago, and I left the match because the thing troubled me a bit. (Two years, and very likely this char is still around).

Sukia Pomp = "Suck and Blow", in italian, the name of a female ele character. "Pomp"/"pompa" is commonly used for both sexual intercourse and oral sex. If you search on google for "pompa" you will find oil pumps, water pumps and so on, but if you google "pompa amatoriale" ("amatoriale" = "amateur"), well, you will get really explicit explanations. "Pompino" (small "pompa") is used for a bl0wj0b, and there can be no mistake about that.

Gina Lava Gina = literally means "Gina Washes Gina", but just change the spaces and you get "Gina La Vagina" (= "Gina The Vagina"). Which do you think was the intention of the creator?

And I could point out many many more of them...
Some of them related to feces, "poop" and so on.
I've seen so many running around in the past years, and no one did care.
Why all of a sudden all this?

Honestly, I think the ones in my examples are way worse than "SuKa" (it doesn't only mean "bitch" in Poland, in italian, mainly in Sicily and surrounding southern areas "suka" or "suca", same sound, means "(you) suck (me)" )... I don't think they deserved a ban for that, really, there is a lot worse.

Fitz Rinley · Apr 18, 2009, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan

A decent solution ...
The ban thing is a joke because almost everything is based on personal perception and interpretation .

Actually, the only thing to do is follow the definitions of the ESRB under which we were sold the game. It is not a game for little children. To meet the tenets under which the game was sold NC West should require people to accept Crude Humor and Strong Language, regardless of their perception.

We have created a society where the imbecilic perception (perception without foundation) of an individual can destroy the lives of others. The person so perceiving and destroying has no obligation to be correct in their assumption. This leads to abuse.

To avoid the problem of people abusing this one simply eliminates the restriction. You tell people to learn to deal with the immaturity, vulgarity, tactless humor, or whatever. If they dont like a persons name they do not have to play on their side. Forced restrictions will only make the animosity and rebelliousness worse.

Have I ever reported someone? Yes. For mistreatment of others. Not because of a name that cannot hurt me.

deluxe · Apr 18, 2009, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Benedetto X V I = Benedict 16th, the Pope, the highest figure on earth for my religion... the representative of St.Peter and the voice of Christ on earth. Should I attack and kill a monk named like that in RA? It was a couple of years ago, and I left the match because the thing troubled me a bit.

This made me laugh, do people actually get "offended" so easily?
I think there's something wrong with people who get offended this fast.
Some people need to grow a thicker skin.

Mangione · Apr 18, 2009, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

This made me laugh, do people actually get "offended" so easily?
I think there's something wrong with people who get offended this fast.
Some people need to grow a thicker skin.

Laugh as much as you want. Did I say I got "offended"?

Since That Person means something that is more than winning a match in a videogame I simply choosed not to play with that player that was doing something that disturbs me.
(While I may disagree with some views of the Church, I still respect their opinion without turning them into a joke.)

But if after standing aside without saying nothing, without a whisper, without reporting something I find quite disturbing... What do you want more? I kept silent and moved away, and even so, I am being told that I am "offended" too easily... wasn't I allowed even to leave the match? Was I supposed to play anyway? What is the boundary when something is too much?

Read the poster before you:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

If they dont like a persons name they do not have to play on their side.

That is just what I did, no report, no fuss.
I removed myself from the game.
Am I allowed at least to do this?

Fril Estelin · Apr 18, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

a name that cannot hurt me.

So, what do you suggest Anet should do to/about those who are hurt by names (and that are not kids)? Ask them to be like you (obviously not an imbecile) or leave this game? Hand them a copy of your posts in this thread or a copy of the US laws? Close your eyes when you see these names?

Reverend Dr · Apr 18, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Massive, who was the one that reported Suka has been banned for abusing the report system. This is very well known due to him sharing most of his support e-mails openly. I feel that this is a very dangerous precedent.

I have been running around with [Dong] for about two years now. Over 7 incarnations of our guild have been banned. Fair enough, we can't reference male genetalia in a T rated game, suka is still polish slang. As in the other case the people that reported us did not do so because they were offended or because they were policing the game, they reported us because they disliked us and knew that it would get us banned.

The Resevoir Dogs ban Kaon mentioned. That was us. Our Mr White was banned mid monthly for having an offensive name. Again because we were disliked and people knew that by reporting us enough, we would get banned.

Recently we had someone banned for something said in guild chat. The person reporting him was someone encountered during PvP and had no way to see our guild chat. The investigating GM found foul language in our guild chat (Which we don't care about) and issued the ban anyway. Again we were being reported not because we had offended anyone or even commited an offense of which they were aware; we were being reported because we were disliked and they knew that enough reports would get us banned.

Here is where this precedent becomes dangerous. Almost every single report every filed is an attempt to be malicious and get someone punished. You don't report someone because you like them, you report someone because you hate them. The feelings fueling every report are hatred and malice. Look at people talking about bots/syncers/leechers the overwhelming opinion is "ban those RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOers."

People will report simply because they dislike someone. In any PvP tension and emotions run higher, which lead to friendly rivals and some that are not so friendly. Surely you can see the absurd situation of trying to determine report validity based upon the reporter's intent especially in a PvP game.

Fitz Rinley · Apr 18, 2009, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

So, what do you suggest Anet should do to/about those who are hurt by names (and that are not kids)? Ask them to be like you (obviously not an imbecile) or leave this game? Hand them a copy of your posts in this thread or a copy of the US laws? Close your eyes when you see these names?

Those who lack sufficient ego strength to encounter a word should stay off the internet altogether. Yes, they should be told:

Quote:

This is a community of members from various traditions, various philosophies, and various levels of creativity. Participation in this community requires that you be tolerant of those differences. If you find something is crass, crude, or tactless you are not obligated to support that person. You are free to move to a different district. You are free to party with someone else. However, we promote toleration of those things which do not cross the legal boundaries of acceptability in the nation where the player resides.

Perhaps, they could even consider talking to the person about their name and what it means to them. Children under the age of 13 should not be playing. There should be no childrens viewing hours of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

That is just what I did, no report, no fuss.
I removed myself from the game.
Am I allowed at least to do this?

Yes, you are allowed to avoid playing with someone. I find names with drug references to be offensive. I have seen several over 4 years. I do not find them offensive because they are a word, but when they promote a style of life that is illegal, personally and socially destructive. One of my guild leaders, who is currently on the line in Iraq, has given almost every one of his characters the last name of Benedictat. He is a strong Catholic. He did not take this name out of mockery but out of reverence. It may very well be the person whom you did not ask, were disgusted by for their name, had in fact chosen that name because it represented something of value to them. While I applaud your choice to be tolerant, I would ask you to question yourself as to whether you acted based upon what you profess to believe. I cannot answer that. But what I do know is that the one I worship ate with sinners, beggars, prostitutes, and thugs whose reverence was imperfect and whose language was certainly the common language of the street (not the prim and proper language of the well educated and the elite).

That aside, what I do know is that we have created a situation where:

1. A person is guilty of harassment, offense, denigration, degradation, assault, etc. based on what is convenient for the person claiming to be a victim.
2. A person may be punished for expressing the best part of their beliefs and ideals because someone else chooses to be offended for any purpose.
3. A group of people may lose years of effort because someone else chooses to be offended as a form of retribution.
4. A person may be punished because another individual chooses to have a dirty mind and extract in any twisted manner a sexual or other offense from a name. (This is not the same as the average person finding something sexually explicit.)
5. People of one society, raised in a group of laws and heritage, are to be punished according to the heritage and restriction of another. I refuse to allow GW to hold me responsible to live according to Shariah.
6. The rules eliminate artistic, political, and literary expression - the driving forces of a creative mind, by instructing people they may not have names which hold spiritual and philosophical meaning for them.
7. Everyone will be required to restrict themselves to language and expression appropriate to 5 year olds even if they purchased an Adult content game, just because one person doesn't want to participate at the level of the advertised content.

The only proper and correct response can be to require thicker skins and greater toleration. Otherwise they must become thought police.

Zahr Dalsk · Apr 18, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

It is not a game for little children.

ArenaNet wants it to be a game for little children, though.

MrTickle · Apr 19, 2009, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

...self righteous...

Found 6 more to report yesterday. ....

Case in point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

...One person had dudu in their name..

OMG!!!

TwinRaven · Apr 19, 2009, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Anyone looking for a list of names to ban? These are just a few in English, for penis...I imagine the euphamisms internationally will add up to a mighty list...then we hit vagina, breast and anus. After body-parts, we go for religious figures...did you know Michael, John (Jack, a derivation of John), Mary, and a whole slew of other names can be drawn directly to figures in the Bible :O ...after that, we start looking for copyright violators (all those Legolas toons have to go), folowed by all acts of violence in names...there are literally thousands of words that have violent connotations...THOUSANDS! I'm pretty sure we can ban thousands aand if anyone is willing to research other languages, maybe hundreds of thousands. We cam also hit vulgarities and obscenities including all mentioning of pigs, hogs and swine (very bad insult to some)...and all references to shoe-throwing...thinking it might become a new hobby. A quick list for those who want to get started:

The Dicktionary: A list of penis euphemisms

Mangione · Apr 19, 2009, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

It may very well be the person whom you did not ask, were disgusted by for their name, had in fact chosen that name because it represented something of value to them.

I can't think of using names of something of value to me and go in the arenas taunting my competitors. Maybe other people is different? Maybe...

However, later I had the confirmation that the choice was dictated by mockery. That one was some kind of "novelty name", just for fun. I found some posts in the Guild Wars forum on a big Italian website about multiplayer games ( those who know the site will easily understand which one is it, the Italian guild wars community is quite small after all.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

While I applaud your choice to be tolerant, I would ask you to question yourself as to whether you acted based upon what you profess to believe. I cannot answer that. But what I do know is that the one I worship ate with sinners, beggars, prostitutes, and thugs whose reverence was imperfect and whose language was certainly the common language of the street (not the prim and proper language of the well educated and the elite).

We are going quite OT, but it is an interesting discussion anyway.
Let's avoid comparing a kid that uses an offensive name just to be "funny" to people whose life has been unfair. Let's keep things in proportion.

Before we keep talking about the thickness of my skin, which seems to be so much under the spot, just read this book, is better than any other explanation.
This is about the places where I live and the people I meet, work, talk and eat with everyday. My everyday's life is the place where I can question myself about such matters, not trivial stuff like kids trying to be funny in an online game.

I can skip a round of the game, it won't hurt me, and I can live without making such things became a state affair.

I'm not some religious zealot, I've got so many "sins" of mine, that I don't have time to bug other people.
I will always avoid pushing my religion onto other people, I live it, I don't expect them to embrace it, but I think I can ask at least some respect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

That aside, what I do know is that we have created a situation where:[...]

the system is easily abused.

The reason has been stated here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Here is where this precedent becomes dangerous. Almost every single report every filed is an attempt to be malicious and get someone punished. You don't report someone because you like them, you report someone because you hate them.

Such ease of abuse is why we see Martin and Regina working so much to find a way to fix the issue.
They are doing an amazing work, I've never seen a game company caring so much about the players (which often are a bunch of whiny kids).

Yes, we need greater tolerance.
I've seen so many names that could be offensive, yet I had reported none. I don't care. The only time in the past years of gaming I didn't feel at ease, I just decided to not participate in a match of the game.
Often a videogame is like a venting place for people's frustrations... and if people want to discharge part of their stress using a name with references to sexual acts, scatological humour, drug abuse, or whatever, as long as they aren't breaking any law, well... let them.
They are just words. We should be mature enough to not make a big fuss over small things.

I think that the bolded part of the last of Fitz's post is perfect and should be like an entering message for any online game.

EDIT: Just seen TwinRaven's list... That's a big one, and some of the names are quite funny. LOL

TwinRaven · Apr 19, 2009, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Hey, that was my list....changed to just a link...was way too big (no pun intended) and I didn't want to risk the HAMMER OF DOOM that is the Mods and their 41-ton thumper (no pun intended) and they would surely beat me into submission (again...no pun...).

Star Gazer · Apr 19, 2009, 01:12 AM // 01:12

^ too much time on hands.

HEY! I have an idea! Give that list to anet so they can just match a characters name to it. If it does, slam them with the ban hammer! If not, just ban Red Sonya for a year or two.

TwinRaven · Apr 19, 2009, 01:21 AM // 01:21

^^^LOL...comprehensive list...rofl...read my post about and follow the link...one list, one subject, one language = hundres of words...making a list that covered every possibility and all spelling variations ...it would take YEARS! if it were even possible...omw...I like you...you're funny

Fitz Rinley · Apr 19, 2009, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

I can't think of using names of something of value to me and go in the arenas taunting my competitors. Maybe other people is different? Maybe...

I comprehend. I do not PvP. The general attitude of it does not suit me. I am competitive with people, not oppositional. The names I use in PvP are Irez Uno, Icanbe Rezduno, etc. The first was a play against the quote, "I'll be back!" I do not PvP because of the general lack of respect for competitor and self that I see in the behavior there. GW has never seen a reason to promote honorable behavior there in my experience. What is there is a testamony to the good people who are there, and nothing from Game Development or structure.

Quote:

We are going quite OT, but it is an interesting discussion anyway.
Let's avoid comparing a kid that uses an offensive name just to be "funny" to people whose life has been unfair. Let's keep things in proportion.

I also comprehend. I differ. The worst someone has ever been through is still the worst. The grief or stress they release in misbehavior is in response to their experience. Saying their experience is invalid or their stress unimportant because they still have shoes while others do not have feet, only increases their stress. For both, the breaking of a promise by a parent, friend, spouse, child, or personal hero is still crushing.

Quote:

Before we keep talking about the thickness of my skin,

As I said, I cannot say. I can only offer an idea for you to judge for yourself. I merely pose the question not assert an answer.

Quote:

I will always avoid pushing my religion onto other people, I live it, I don't expect them to embrace it, but I think I can ask at least some respect.

Agreed. What we see in the naming policy however is a condition which results in easily targetting people for placing reminders of their path in everything they do. The policy creates a ready made form for religious persecution by denying its expression rather than protecting it.

Quote:

Such ease of abuse is why we see Martin and Regina working so much to find a way to fix the issue. They are doing an amazing work, I've never seen a game company caring so much about the players (which often are a bunch of whiny kids).

Also agreed. And it is important, potentially landmark, work that may set the standard for decades of gaming and international interaction.

, This is why I won't sit back and let it be half-baked work merely to appease the moment. They are able to do better.

Quote:

I think that the bolded part of the last of Fitz's post is perfect and should be like an entering message for any online game.

Molte Grazie. (I looked that up out of respect for the compliment and its giver.)