Curse

What Now · Apr 30, 2009, 10:35 PM // 22:35

I know this will probably be shot down fairly fast and has probably been suggested but since they did claim originally name changes and appearance changes weren't an option things might change on other fronts.

For my first year of play I was a PvE player who enjoyed pugging and discovering new things as I completed missions. For the last few years though after discovering PvP I have ended up deleting most my PvE characters to make room for PvP characters. From Halls to ATs I've done it all but one thing I've always wanted to do was enjoy some PvE in my free time.

I left an Elementalist in which I got Legendary Guardian with for the sake of doing it when HM was released but what's driven me away is the needless aspects of wasting time that plague the core of making a single extra PvE character.

I simply do not see the need for buying runes for heroes on EVERY character and especially since I run different builds on them, from fire to air, which would require a new rune every few missions which is just absurd and costly. Having to get to level 20 over and over also while getting over 10 different shields alone as well as 40/40 sets, high sets, staff sets, or different weapons is just all overly tedious which is what brings me here today.

I was wondering if by some miracle of a chance you could implement a way to bring PvP characters into PvE with mission access just to have fun and not worry about buying every skill, every weapon, every rune for every hero and spending months after months getting a character simply playable to an enjoyable degree. Whether this requires c3+g3+r8+com3+ whatever else insanely high title or to pay around 70k faction to unlock per mission for a PvP character I seriously would not mind. I PvP anyway spending 100k useless Balthazar that I am bound to get on the ability to play with PvE friends on something more than my Elementalist would be a godsend.

I understand a lot of people might not want this at all but I find it worth looking into if at all possible. I don't mind if you would of had to beat the mission before+have titles+ pay Balthazar faction if Anet feels the need to weed people out that are just trying to skip missions they find too hard or just don't want to do but I find the preparation time for getting a PvE character full geared and to a point where it can access dungeons and all the missions to be ready to dispatch with friends where/when need be a bit over the top.

Also I wouldn't mind not being able to get drops or money or anything I simply wish to play with friends...without spending every hour I have off work working up to it and everyone getting bored of playing together by the time I get there.

sph0nz · Apr 30, 2009, 10:48 PM // 22:48

No way. The point of PvE is that you start at level 1 and progress through to 20, which doesn't take long at all. Heroes don't need runes; just put runes on the heroes you use the most. Furthermore, you don't need 10 shields, 40/40 sets, high sets, etc for a PvE character unless you're going to PvP with that PvE character. I hardly ever swap shields in PvE because I'm lazy and it hardly makes any difference.

Deleet · Apr 30, 2009, 10:49 PM // 22:49

I definitely agree with you.

But more importantly because it opens up for more possibilities.

And it fixes never having to wait around for a specific class, say healer. (Unless no one wants to play it.)

Another solution is to simply have a single character that can freely change primary profession too. That's complete freedom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sph0nz

No way. The point of PvE is that you start at level 1 and progress through to 20, which doesn't take long at all. Heroes don't need runes; just put runes on the heroes you use the most. Furthermore, you don't need 10 shields, 40/40 sets, high sets, etc for a PvE character unless you're going to PvP with that PvE character. I hardly ever swap shields in PvE because I'm lazy and it hardly makes any difference.

Sorry, where is it written that this has to be the point of PvE? Nowhere. Really, arguing from how PvE often or always is or have been to how it should be is a fallacy. (Naturalistic fallacy if one is into philosophy or logic. Alternatively called an ought-is fallacy.)

If that's not what you meant, then please clarify your argument.

About you're lazy. That's not really relevant, is it?

What Now · Apr 30, 2009, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

I definitely agree with you.

But more importantly because it opens up for more possibilities.

And it fixes never having to wait around for a specific class, say healer. (Unless no one wants to play it.)

Another solution is to simply have a single character that can freely change primary profession too. That's complete freedom.

Also agreed, less having to worry about limited roles and bringing heroes if any friend will be able to reroll what you need =\ I don't usually enjoy playing with heroes lol they spaz out.

Also in HM having heroes with vigor+vital runes so they don't die in one hit is a LOT more helpful than you think problem is people can't afford their on runes and Sup Vigor on every hero on every character too =\ Been hit for nearly 600 several times and if it wasn't for runes+shield set that's a death sentence.

Of course if you find all this build up the entire aspect of PvE and not missions/story or fun then I could be mistaken.

Lord Of Blame · Apr 30, 2009, 11:12 PM // 23:12

This sounds like this belongs in Sardelac Sanitarium.

Are you saying that Anet should allow a PVP character to move to PVE and have
instant access to all areas of the game and the only restriction is that they do not get
any drops?

sph0nz · Apr 30, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Sorry, where is it written that this has to be the point of PvE? Nowhere. Really, arguing from how PvE often or always is or have been to how it should be is a fallacy. (Naturalistic fallacy if one is into philosophy or logic. Alternatively called an ought-is fallacy.)

If that's not what you meant, then please clarify your argument.

About you're lazy. That's not really relevant, is it?

It's not written anywhere that PvE is about going from 1 to 20, but that doesn't mean that it isn't how PvE is. I was being descriptive, not normative. The game was clearly designed so that PvE characters start at level 1 and can get to 20 in a short amount of playtime; progress is part of the RPG genre. I'm not saying that the essence of PvE is getting from 1 to 20, but that it is integral to RPGs. What you believe the essence of PvE is, is entirely up to you to decide. It just seems like you're asking for geared out characters on a silver platter, when all it takes is a few collector items/crafted items/greens and cheap max armor. You're imposing your idea of a geared out character being enjoyable and sufficient for you (having multiple shield sets on multiple characters is unnecessary, especially when you can just get 10 shields for one character and use them on multiple characters).

You already have the ability to create PvE character and get them to 20 in a short amount of time. If you aren't able to afford purchasing all of the runes you feel that you need, then I guess you shouldn't feel entitled to anything you cannot accomplish yourself. This "libertarianism" only applied in the world of Guild Wars of course, because all characters are created more or less equal, and every player has an equal opportunity, unlike in the real world.

Tell me, why should anybody be entitled to these things (level 20 PvE characters off the bat, runed out heroes, etc) when all players have an equal chance to obtain them?

There is always the option of taking heroes/henchmen if your party is lacking a specific class. Almost all of PvE is doable this way, save for the elite missions where you'd have to rely on other players in some way.

FoxBat · Apr 30, 2009, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by sph0nz

There is always the option of taking heroes/henchmen if your party is lacking a specific class.

Encouraging players to go with bots over humans due to class is pretty piss-poor design for an MMO.

Anyway my suspicion/hope is still that a single character can swap to any profession in GW2 (after enough unlock grind), albeit not their race, but that should be good enough in most situations.

What Now · Apr 30, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by sph0nz

It's not written anywhere that PvE is about going from 1 to 20, but that doesn't mean that it isn't how PvE is. I was being descriptive, not normative. The game was clearly designed so that PvE characters start at level 1 and can get to 20 in a short amount of playtime; progress is part of the RPG genre. I'm not saying that the essence of PvE is getting from 1 to 20, but that it is integral to RPGs. What you believe the essence of PvE is, is entirely up to you to decide. It just seems like you're asking for geared out characters on a silver platter, when all it takes is a few collector items/crafted items/greens and cheap max armor. You're imposing your idea of a geared out character being enjoyable and sufficient for you (having multiple shield sets on multiple characters is unnecessary, especially when you can just get 10 shields for one character and use them on multiple characters).

You already have the ability to create PvE character and get them to 20 in a short amount of time. If you aren't able to afford purchasing all of the runes you feel that you need, then I guess you shouldn't feel entitled to anything you cannot accomplish yourself. This "libertarianism" only applied in the world of Guild Wars of course, because all characters are created more or less equal, and every player has an equal opportunity, unlike in the real world.

Tell me, why should anybody be entitled to these things (level 20 PvE characters off the bat, runed out heroes, etc) when all players have an equal chance to obtain them?

There is always the option of taking heroes/henchmen if your party is lacking a specific class. Almost all of PvE is doable this way, save for the elite missions where you'd have to rely on other players in some way.

The payment was initially done in Balthazar faction for the runes and such so it wont be getting everything for nothing it was all worked for and will have no benefit if they disable drops for PvP characters.

I suggested many means of paying per mission or needing certain titles to access it that goes past any point of it being a "hand out" or "underserved".

If you wanna be specific about it it won't be cutting any more corners than someone running you through most the game except it wont cost an arm and a leg so it's not bypassing any required play time or effort.

Never was this a question about being doable but about having the chance to play with friends with new characters/builds/experiences and having fun even at no other personal gain or loot if you wanna call it that.

I know seeing to increase replay value was one thing they commented on striving for but maybe one way of best implementing that isn't by going from A to B again but by taking out some bumps in the road that feel more like tasks or grinding for money to have skills than actual gameplay/story.

If you wanna speak about equal right then lets lock all PvE characters out of PvE and save me the trouble of getting another Ele with 3 superior runes on my RA team or a ranger in GvG who doesn't have all the bow sets and such. Why does this only work one way? If we have to settle with their half of the game can't they accept ours?

Red Sonya · May 01, 2009, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by sph0nz

No way. The point of PvE is that you start at level 1 and progress through to 20, which doesn't take long at all. Heroes don't need runes; just put runes on the heroes you use the most. Furthermore, you don't need 10 shields, 40/40 sets, high sets, etc for a PvE character unless you're going to PvP with that PvE character. I hardly ever swap shields in PvE because I'm lazy and it hardly makes any difference.

That's right no f-in way should pve players get to buy any skills shields armor or weapons other than ingame through buying from other players. Those that play pve should have to WORK for EVERYTHING they get instead of this silver platter bs Anet has been doing for the past two years. The final straw would be allowing pve players go buy their skills through the store just because they don't want to work for it like the rest of us did. Kinda tired of so many of these dweebs wanting everything handed to them because they have real life $$ to spend.

What Now · May 01, 2009, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

That's right no f-in way should pve players get to buy any skills shields armor or weapons other than ingame through buying from other players. Those that play pve should have to WORK for EVERYTHING they get instead of this silver platter bs Anet has been doing for the past two years. The final straw would be allowing pve players go buy their skills through the store just because they don't want to work for it like the rest of us did. Kinda tired of so many of these dweebs wanting everything handed to them because they have real life $$ to spend.

This is a topic about PvP characters being able to unlock and access PvE areas/missions possibly with faction/titles and no self benefit. Nothing to do with PvE characters at all....so how did this come up? Skins would still be default PvP skills unless you unlocked more via AT reward points and there would be no titles or anything. Reading back over things instead of skimming might help =) thank you. Nothing has been or am I asking to be handed to me and calling people dweebs is not very constructive at all.

kazjun · May 01, 2009, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Don't need max gear or runes + insignias. Just lvl20 heroes then give them a good build, they'll roll most of pve without needing full runes or weapon swaps...

Give them any runes you find and get greens or collector weapons as you play more.

As for skills, if you been pvping a lot, you should have a good idea of what works. No need to have full unlocks on a pve char unless you intend to pvp with it. I've finished all 4 pve campaigns on my mules using no more than the 2 cap sigs you get for free, the free skills you get as quest rewards in the tutorials and the skills you get on the cheap before they hit the 1k cap. And heroe's come with whatever skills you unlocked on your account, so if you pvp a lot they should have full skill unlocks already.

Lord Of Blame · May 01, 2009, 12:18 AM // 00:18

How about a PVP character is allowed to PVE but the following rules apply.

1. No drops of any kind.
2. Can accept quest/mission rewards.
3. Can open chest and collect end chest items.
4. Must use Balt faction to unlock skills.
5. Can obtain PVE skills by completing the required quest.
6. Can not obtain any PVE related titles.

There may be more to add but that is all I have now. Once the PVP character pays the necessary amount of Balt faction of unlock PVE they will have immediate access to all town, outpost, missions, and elite areas. This will allow the character to be able to form parties, with whoever, to do missions.

sph0nz · May 01, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

The payment was initially done in Balthazar faction for the runes and such so it wont be getting everything for nothing it was all worked for and will have no benefit if they disable drops for PvP characters.

I suggested many means of paying per mission or needing certain titles to access it that goes past any point of it being a "hand out" or "underserved".

If you wanna be specific about it it won't be cutting any more corners than someone running you through most the game except it wont cost an arm and a leg so it's not bypassing any required play time or effort.

Never was this a question about being doable but about having the chance to play with friends with new characters/builds/experiences and having fun even at no other personal gain or loot if you wanna call it that.

I know seeing to increase replay value was one thing they commented on striving for but maybe one way of best implementing that isn't by going from A to B again but by taking out some bumps in the road that feel more like tasks or grinding for money to have skills than actual gameplay/story.

If you wanna speak about equal right then lets lock all PvE characters out of PvE and save me the trouble of getting another Ele with 3 superior runes on my RA team or a ranger in GvG who doesn't have all the bow sets and such. Why does this only work one way? If we have to settle with their half of the game can't they accept ours?

I now understand what you're trying to say. You want to be able to use PvP characters in PvE, but make it so said PvP characters cannot obtain items in PvE. Also, you want to be able to use the fruits of your PvP unlocks in PvE. Am I right? It seems that this way is an easier way than creating a PvE character and obtaining all of the items for said character/heroes. I would argue that it is easier to unlock all of the things via Balthazar faction than it is to simply purchase said items with gold.

The chance to play with your friends is there. It's not a matter of chance, but a matter of certainty of whether or not you'll have the time to do so.

Perhaps, and that is why normal and elite tomes were added to the game. Furthermore, hero skill trainers offer "free" skills as well, but of course you have to "grind" titles to have hero skill points. I can't tell you what your experience of grinding is and is not, but what I can tell you is that it sure seems that ArenaNet intended for players to play through the campaigns (save for prophecies) rather than getting run through them; more or less skipping missions completely.

Do you mean lock all PvE characters out of PvP?
I wouldn't care if PvE characters weren't allowed in PvP areas. This would perhaps be more consistent with the rest of the game (the PvE/PvP skill split), however I doubt ArenaNet wants to split the community up even more than it already is, and actually wants to attempt to unite it. Since you have almost no control over Random Arenas, that isn't really a fair point. However, you do have the ability to inform your ranger teammate to obtain more bows because that is what the metagame suggests.

By the way, it doesn't exactly "go both ways". You cannot use anything you unlock via balthazar faction on a PvE character, not that it would be needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Of Blame

5. Can obtain PVE skills by completing the required quest.
6. Can not obtain any PVE related titles.

PvE skills would be hampered by not having the title, and what of the pve skills from Nightfall which are exclusive to hero skill trainers?

Lord Of Blame · May 01, 2009, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by sph0nz

PvE skills would be hampered by not having the title, and what of the pve skills from Nightfall which are exclusive to hero skill trainers?

What are you talking about? Don't you know R1 Ursan is leet? lol

Yeah I did think about that when I posted. Maybe they could either be maxed upon acquisition, or maybe make PVP'ers grind em like everyone else. If they grind it then let them get the title even though it's PVE.

Either way we will never see this happen, but on the off chance it did the I will have to /sign as long as there are some restrictions put in place.

Assyrian · May 01, 2009, 02:55 AM // 02:55

uhm, first off, they want you to build up and waste your time to play this game, not just instantly make a new char, then play PvE by passing over some balth,

second...

they added the char name changes and shit for a reason, not because they care, but because they want the money, cuz there isnt monthly fees, and they need the cash flow,
but who would buy name changes, or char changes, if u could just, re-roll a PvP char that can be used in PvE, dont have to spend time, real money, or anything really...

MithranArkanere · May 01, 2009, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Oh, sure, it would work like this:
- Relinquish all skills but the ones given for free by the Profession changer.
- Relinquish all heroes.
- Relinquish any PvP equipment and the PvP equipment panel. You keep only non-PvP weapons like the ones from ZChest, HoHChest or traded. Unlocked skins remain saved, but won't be able to make them again until you Join the Zaishen again.
- Since they are foreigners to all campaigns, they won't be able to make any newbie quests, only those available to foreign characters.
You could trigger all of this with a Quest called "Zaishen Honorable Discharge", given by High Priest Zhang.

And done, the PvP character is now free to go PvE.

Same could be done for PvE characters: "Join the Zaishen Order".
- Gain access to all PvP skills unlocked by the account, but all PvE skills are hidden.
- Gain access to all heroes unlocked by the account.
- Can no longer leave PvP areas.
- Can unlock PvP skins with Tournament points.
- PvE Equipment is still usable, and also gain the PvP equipment panel and all unlocked skins.
- All PvE quests are abandoned automatically.
- PvE unlocks are kept, so they will come back if you leave the Zaishen order again.
- PvE Titles are saved, but won't advance and you can't show them (no checkbox) until you leave the Zaishen Order again.

That shoud do, XD.

Raccoon · May 01, 2009, 07:44 AM // 07:44

People are actually considering this?

No way in hell should PVP characters be allowed into PVE. You should be made to work hard to unlock certain things. Stop been lazy and play the game.

/notsigned

MirkoTeran · May 01, 2009, 08:19 AM // 08:19

/notsigned

It goes against one of the core concepts of the game. It shouldn't even be considered.

beaverlegions · May 01, 2009, 11:10 AM // 11:10

What would be great would be to use the same heroes across all characters, I have 6 chars that have beaten at least 1 campaign.
6 times the sabway necs, 6 times the healer and prot monk, 6 times ....

Proff · May 01, 2009, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Not having to spend 20+ hours getting a character to 20 with armour/weapons and past all the useless missions at the start would be incredible.