Curse

Martin Firestorm · Apr 30, 2009, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

If having fun involves abusing a game mechanism where is the valid point?

The valid point is he wasn't doing that, but now can't use the emote for what he had been doing to have fun with it.

Saldonus Darkholme · Apr 30, 2009, 08:29 PM // 20:29

I'm curious: how many of you that frequent HB have seen the /roll emote while waiting for a match? Not while IN a match, not before the match starts, but while waiting there, after hitting the "Enter Mission" button?

Ebony Shadowheart · Apr 30, 2009, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

If having fun involves abusing a game mechanism where is the valid point?

The OP's original point was that the people that don't abuse it are being punished along with those that do abuse it, which is unfair to those that are innocent.

Skye Marin · Apr 30, 2009, 09:19 PM // 21:19

The only real solution is to remove the reason why people /roll and /resign.

Now, I'm not advocating removing the title. I'm saying we need to remove the speed that /roll and /resign gives.

If you quit, disconnect, or /resign in the first 4 minutes of a match, you gain 5 PvP dishonourable points.

Also, improve rewards for those who have to wait longer for a ranked match. If you're over 1000 rank, you gain double commander points. If you're in the top 1000, you gain triple. Top 250 players get 4 points per win.

The best way to gain points should be to pay and win. The system is broken, which is why people /resign, so the real problem needs to be fixed.

scruffy · May 01, 2009, 01:05 AM // 01:05

this thread is retarded, however anet is even more retarded for believing removing the roll emote would have any effect whatsoever on title farmers

DreamWind · May 01, 2009, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

The only real way to eliminate the problem is to either stop HB altogether or eliminate the people who abuse the mechanics of the game.

Wrong. The best way to eliminate the problem is remove the reason people abuse...or better yet not introduce reasons for people to abuse to begin with. Removing /roll solves nothing (is there an echo in here?). Removing roll is naive at best and stupid at worst.

Floski · May 01, 2009, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

Excuse the devs for not wanting people to destroy a PvP mode more than it already is.

"I want to play it my way. As long as I don't spoil the fun for anyone else"

What if the person you are playing WANTS to actually you know, PLAY the game?

Get the message.

lol. If the other guy wants to play, then he doesn't roll. Either you leave, or you have to play. Duuuuuh. It takes 2 to roll. No one's fun is getting spoiled.

Quote:

So you are telling me you want to /roll GvG....

No one rolls in GvG...

Quote:

You already have the RPS and the color made up rules until they remove them too, hurry up and go max your title unil it's too late! Hurry!

This problem existed for all of 24 hours. It wasn't for the title, it was for the zquest. Duuuuh. It disappeared when everyone turned their reward in.

Quote:

Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder.

lol. Someone explain to me how /roll, an inherently random act, fixes the outcome of a match. If anything, it makes it more random. Usually, it's the person who has the better build and tactics that wins, this makes it truly random.

You guys overreact to everything and just feel the inherent need to defend Anet even when they overreact to a non-problem. It's pretty sad.

the fact that "red resigns" rule has appeared just proves one thing. No matter what a company decides to do, people will find a way around their restrictions. HM? DoA? Skill nerfs? People found a way around all of these, and now many areas are solo farmable and all that jazz. People are always more intelligent than a company will give them credit for.

The restriction on rolling is no different. People found a way around it in less than a day. Congrats Anet, you've solved nothing, you've only taken away players' freedom to roll in HA for goodies. I don't know what it'll take to make these idiotic companies understand that more freedom is nearly always preferable to restrictions.

1337 H4X · May 01, 2009, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Oh, so now you actually have to do some work to get a pvp title

Ohnu!

Red Sonya · May 01, 2009, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

If you quit, disconnect, or /resign in the first 4 minutes of a match, you gain 5 PvP dishonourable points.

Yeah I'm all for this /signed anything to stop the cheating and farming and put SKILL back into the game. There is NO SKILL is rolling or using some method other than what the game intended for the match outcome. Personally if it were my game I would just ban anyone using any other method but actually competing for the match win.

The other way to solve this issue is you MUST score a min of 10 points before the match ends and that means doing something besides rolling or playing patty cake or rock,paper, scissors.

Another way to solve this issue is take out the /resign command!!! Yeah boy that'll fix em and if a player leaves any other way than the end of the match sequence they get 10 minutes of sitout time for dishonor. Yep even on a disconnect get a better ISP.

Improvavel · May 01, 2009, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1337 H4X

Oh, so now you actually have to do some work to get a pvp title

Ohnu!

I love all these"I read the word I in the OP so I've to post my own I" post...

time to close thread

Rocky Raccoon · May 01, 2009, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebony Shadowheart

The OP's original point was that the people that don't abuse it are being punished along with those that do abuse it, which is unfair to those that are innocent.

It's no different than real life in that a few bad apples can affect a whole group. Maybe if the OP was a little more diplomatic and mature in his wording of what he meant it might have helped his point.

Gli · May 01, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

What I want to know is, has Michael Moore been contacted?

[DE] · May 01, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

A few MATs ago when [rawr] agreed to tie a match by running around for the entire time, it was considered ladder manipulation. Even if a /roll is agreed upon by both players it doesn't mean it's not a manipulation.

Still Number One · May 01, 2009, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

A few MATs ago when [rawr] agreed to tie a match by running around for the entire time, it was considered ladder manipulation. Even if a /roll is agreed upon by both players it doesn't mean it's not a manipulation.

How is /roll comparable to drawing a match in a mAT? When you /roll one random member of the game will win the match. There was no, hey I have more points to get to the singles and you need a win in order to get there. So I will give you a free win so you can be there.

In the rawr and zero match, both guilds agreed in game that neither of them would attempt to win the game and they would tie. This gave both teams a significant advantage in the point systems of the mAT guaranteeing them a spot in the single elims. It may be arguable that rawr and zero both would have made it no matter the true outcome of the match, but it was still manipulation and anet acted upon it to try to prevent others from repeating this in the future. The punishment was really bad but that is a whole different extremely drawn out and over talked discussion.

Comparing these two things is asinine. I believe your point is that you believe what rawr and zero did was not cheating and that if that was considered cheating by anet than this is clearly cheating. Which is a horrible assumption because the rawr and zero conga line was 1000 times worse than /rolling. Even though it was amusing.

[DE] · May 01, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

Comparing these two things is asinine. I believe your point is that you believe what rawr and zero did was not cheating and that if that was considered cheating by anet than this is clearly cheating. Which is a horrible assumption because the rawr and zero conga line was 1000 times worse than /rolling. Even though it was amusing.

My point is that according to the new (and ridiculous) rules that Anet set for PvP, /rolling is put in the same light as agreeing to a draw. And while I may view that agreeing to a draw is a legitimate strategy, especially in a tournament, if Anet wants to call it illegal then that's what you have to go by. Same applies to /roll.

Ebony Shadowheart · May 01, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

It's no different than real life in that a few bad apples can affect a whole group. Maybe if the OP was a little more diplomatic and mature in his wording of what he meant it might have helped his point.

I'm not going to argue that point one way or the other. Maturity is sometimes too much to ask of someone that is p*ss*d off.

I should know, I'm guilty of it myself, lol.

Anyway, I'm sure people are aware of that fact that life is inherently not fair, however this is a game and therefore there is a level of control over the fairness we experience from the makers, but like I said previously, Anet prefers to use an axe, rather than a scalpel, to resolve this issues. In the end only creates more issues for them in the form of people bitching. Loudly I might add.

Personally, I don't really care one way or the other. I don't pvp much.

Ġ ō Đ¹ · May 01, 2009, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Next I have more than 1 argument i'll make seperate threads for each, otherwise it is clearly too hard to understand for the average PvEr, this is proven by exhuberant amount of brainless responses.

But yes, I do think rolling should be allowed in Hero Battles as well. I stated my reasons clearly and it seems most people don't agree. I'm fine with that, in fact I don't give a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about the most boring game mode in guild wars. I do think its ridiculous that this game mode has now negatively impacted game modes I do like, without good reason.

have you ever thought of the fact that no one in guru or Anet gives a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO what you think? just saying

[DE] · May 01, 2009, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaddons hero

have you ever thought of the fact that no one in guru or Anet gives a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO what you think? just saying

Guild: X Legion Of Doom X
Irony....

HawkofStorms · May 01, 2009, 08:20 PM // 20:20

The problem is, "manipulation" means you actually fix the outcome of a fight in someones favor (by running a smurf, by making a side agreement to throw or draw a fight, etc). /roll is by definition, not fixed.

Anyway, I will say again, there is a post by Lindsey from a few months ago where she explicitly said /roll was not considered match manipulation, and they won't ban you for it. It's merely not encouraged, and thus why it was removed. But as Dreamwind and myself (amoung others, and I rarely ever agreee with Dreamwind so you know I'm not just being buddy buddy here), removing /roll doesn't fix the problem. Within seconds of reading this update, I thought of the idea that people who are a specific color should just resign (although I suggested blue and most people are using red, R for Resign), which was also thought of by other people. Others are doing rock paper scissors.

The way to fix HB is to actually make it enjoyable to play. You COULD in theory /roll in any form of PvP. Just because HB has rewards isn't why people roll, because then people could /roll in everything. They roll because it's literally just not fun. The title is pure grind, its not enjoyable, its dominated by gimmick capway teleporting mechanics and there is no reason to actually fight anybody. You win by solo ganking and shadowstepping the entire fight. Plus, its not very newbie friendly, as there are only a small number of people running PvX wiki builds there all the time who will immediately destroy new players. It's not FUN.

Edit: Why should people "work for" a PvP title if they aren't even enjoying themselves? Most people don't even bother rolling in HB. The only time rolling comes up in mass is during double weekends or the new z-quests. Most people just avoid the place altogether like the plague. PvPers hate it because its too much like PvE (hereos, ewww...) and PvEers hate it because its too much like PvP (having to run gimmick builds or get dominated and having to deal with "LOL u noob u suck" players). If you actually want to make the place popular, you got to make it enjoyable to more people then the small group of people who enjoy it (massacre, MMS Dome, Vi Ru, etc) or the title grinders who just want to increase their bathazar cap.

ogre_jd · May 01, 2009, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Edit: Why should people "work for" a PvP title if they aren't even enjoying themselves?

If they don't enjoy it and are unwilling to work for it, then they shouldn't be going for the rewards/title. It's that simple. What they should *NOT* be doing is manipulating the match outcome (and deciding, even randomly, who is the one to throw the match and resign is match manipulation) or cluttering up the area under some misguided notion that they 'need' that title or reward.