Curse

drago34 · Apr 26, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

JR made a good point at the beginning of this thread and some of you guys are being total idiots. I didn't realize how your character looks made you play better than someone else...

MithranArkanere · Apr 26, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

For me it's not about playing better of worse.

Is about doors opening.

Let's see how people like it if they add a Xunlia Marketplace and you have to purchase 'Market credits' to perform transactions there.

Some boundaries are not to be crossed. Changing the business model in a game that attracted a lot of players partially with that business model is one of those doors.
Let one step in, and the next one is GW having a 'VIP' feature players must pay very month like Dungeon Runners.

shoyon456 · Apr 26, 2009, 11:39 PM // 23:39

The only thing about this update I would seriously call into question is paying for the extra storage.

The last storage update we got was 100% free and linked to the # of campaigns you had bought I believe. Understandably if everyone bought the all of the extra storage updates, anet servers would be feeling some strain.

Storage CAN affect gameplay by forcing players to dump what might otherwise be valuable loot and force a narrow style of play/trade. I doubt they'll make this kind of thing on GW2, as they'll probably continue to supplement expansions with extra storage.

Improvavel · Apr 27, 2009, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legion Magnus

This is somewhat tongue-in-cheek (at least I hope so) but let's look at what could be the next step in micro-transactions. Will this happen, don't know. Could this happen, certainly:

Per-event transaction fees for our new GW2 A-La-Carte Menu. For your convenience you can place your order via our user-friendly and safe In Game Store! Note, you're not required to order these, they're all OPTIONAL (if you want what others have):

Tournament entrance fee - $5
Guild Hall rental - $15
Guild Hall with NPCs - $35
Skill updates (monthly fee) - $10
Auction House membership - $75
New "Uber-Elite" Armor set - $15
New Weapon skins - $15
Special Event Weekend access - $25
Added content - (variable)
High-end areas accessible - $30
Character "Luck" upgrade - $25
Scalable storage rental - (variable)
Preferred Server priority - $50

Elite Membership - NOT priceless

Oh no the sun is black the world is going to ennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnde!

Oh just a solar eclipse.

Legion Magnus · Apr 27, 2009, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Oh no the sun is black the world is going to ennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnde!

Oh just a solar eclipse.

Well, I'm glad to see we agree its a problem, if apparently only fleeting.

DreamWind · Apr 27, 2009, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

Its about the freedom. This isn't complicated, people. In Guild Wars, If I refuse to buy a makeover pack or an extra storage pane, I can still log unto the game any time I want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Anet have had GW out for 4 years now, and have provided you all with this online game to play with no subscription fees.

You buy the game and pay once. You can then carry on playing forever without paying anymore.

Which coincidentally is how 99% of games in existence also work. Or perhaps you guys forgot that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Simply dont pay for the features if you have a problem with it?

It isn't as simple as that. People would use your excuse for ANYTHING Anet sold. If Anet sold competitive advantages or things that definitively changed the gameplay (which I argue storage does but that is besides the point) there would be a lot of carebears on this forum proclaiming that we don't have to buy it if we have a problem with it. STOP USING THE "IT IS OPTIONAL" ARGUMENT EVERYONE. IT IS TERRIBAD.

Not to mention just because I don't buy it means it goes away. The problem is still there. I didn't pay to be a part of this type of game and I know a lot of others feel the same. Cue "then leave I don't care" post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

And seriously stop the speculating on how this is going to ruin guild wars 2. The only way possible any micro transactions can ruin Guild Wars 2 is if they give you a competitive advantage.

No...the only way they can ruin Guild Wars 2 is if they are in Guild Wars 2 at all. All Anet has to do is give us less out of the box and more out of the in game store. Microtransactions are already added to the list of reasons I am not buying GW2, and I know for 99% certain that they will be a part of the game on release date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity Silverstar

What I see here is people expecting a product to succeed in a capitalist market, yet want it to be developed, produced and maintained in a very non-capitalist way.

What I see here is people expecting a product to succeed in the marketing model the company gave it, and want it to be developed, produced and maintained with that same marketing model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity Silverstar

Argue all you like with bullet points and Your Logic but it comes down to one simple thing: Entitled, Self Important Gamers Want Stuff For Free.

Argue all you like with bullet points and Your Logic but it comes down to one simple thing: Greedy, Self Important Companies Want to Charge its Loyal Players (who Paid for their Game) for Things that Should be Free.

Skyy High · Apr 27, 2009, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

STOP USING THE "IT IS OPTIONAL" ARGUMENT EVERYONE. IT IS TERRIBAD.

Lulz. Lemme just go get all those Ursan and SF threads, we'll see exactly how many of you saying that "it's optional" is a bad argument were using it in quite often then.

OP is the first post I've seen on these forums for days that's made any kind of sense. I had almost resigned myself to just avoiding the copious amounts of stupidity present on these boards, but I now have a glimmer of hope that the community will pull its collective head out of its arse soon enough.

BTW:

Quote:

Companies founded for the express purpose of making money, like all businesses, want to charge players who are willing to pay for bonus aesthetic stuff that I want for free!

Fixed!

DreamWind · Apr 27, 2009, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Lulz. Lemme just go get all those Ursan and SF threads, we'll see exactly how many of you saying that "it's optional" is a bad argument were using it in quite often then.

Go ahead and find them. I'm sure you'll find me and others like me saying the "it is optional" argument was as stupid then as it is now. Of course back then people were calling it the "don't like it don't use it" argument which for all intents and purposes is the same thing.

So...I think you'll find that argument has always been crap and I'm sure you agree. It just coincidentally happens to be the most overused crap argument on these boards and happens to be the most used in favor of microtransactions. Do you know what happens when the only argument people can find is a bad one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

I had almost resigned myself to just avoiding the copious amounts of stupidity present on these boards, but I now have a glimmer of hope that the community will pull its collective head out of its arse soon enough.

Same.

Improvavel · Apr 27, 2009, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

STOP USING THE "IT IS OPTIONAL" ARGUMENT EVERYONE. IT IS TERRIBAD.

That is a TERRIBAD argument on itself.

Either GW is selling competitive advantages or its not! There is no mid term.

The argument of having the capability to store more and so be able to hold on stuff and sell for better prices doesn't work either. You can already buy more accounts and slots. Panes is just another way of getting it - and all of them cost money.

And that is if you believe the objective of PvE is to compete with other players to see who has more money.

I'll have to go look at the GW site to see if there's a rank of players based on money they possess and if they get rewards for it.

So until they sell a weapon that does more damage or a better skill, and keep making quality games, I'll buy their games and the optionals I consider interesting (like the character slots I bought. I wont buy those I don't consider worthy like a sex transformation pack).

If you consider these changes will give those that buy them an edge, either you buy them or you don't. If you don't buy them and keep playing its because maybe they aren't that advantageous. If you don't buy them and stop playing then you are making your point.

So how is it?

Are those things so TERRIBAD you wont be playing anymore, giving a slap to Anet?

Or is the game is enjoyable and you having fun despite those things?

Or do you want to rename your Dark Dreamwind character for free?

MithranArkanere · Apr 27, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

There are plenty of optional things that are paid once when you acquire the key that grants you access to it.

Prestige armors, weapons, pets, kits, miniatures...
So don't have to pay every time you want to use such features.

And you could even say that everything is optional in the game.
Playing the game itself is optional. You can buy it and not use it, or just login to chat.

So, yes, the 'optional' argument is not a god one here.

Jaded _Knight · Apr 27, 2009, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeraCombi

hehe...gokku hair for orcs please!

Ug... I just threw up a little bit

Apollo Smile · Apr 27, 2009, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded _Knight

Ug... I just threw up a little bit

LOL WoW betrayed its customers by offering 15 dollar re-customization HURRR

I got the spiky hair for my orc warrior.

Improvavel · Apr 27, 2009, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

And you could even say that everything is optional in the game.
Playing the game itself is optional. You can buy it and not use it, or just login to chat.

So, yes, the 'optional' argument is not a god one here.

Do you want to change your characters names? Do you want to change their appearance?

If not what is the problem of that thing being there?

I'm sorry but that isn't the same thing as an armor that is part of the game.

Do you want more storage?

If not, what is the problem? They even gave you one free without you asking! Plus a 5 slot for weapons/armor for cheap in game money!

If you want more space, couldn't you buy more characters slots and/or accounts?

And you need to buy them once per slot too, not just go there buy "slots" and then new slots kept coming without additional paying.

Names and appearance change is the same - you buy a character sex change. You buy a name change.

You don't buy the ability to add slots at will and you don't buy the ability to change the sex of you character without deleting it at will.

All the rest is extrapolation.

Comparing this to the Ursan Blessing skill change is a sad history - for one part UB (and all the blessings) was bad - it killed build construction and killed the need for different professions/roles. But it allowed PuGs. Loads of PuGs. You fixed the first part but killed the PUGs.

Of course most of the noise wasn't about those ideals (even if sometimes people disguised those opinions into those ideals) - it was about the so called elite guilds losing control of the economy. Joining a guild that could farm certain areas that most people couldn't could cost you money. And the more farm happened less rare the items became and less money was to be made by those elite guilds.

Of course some idiots, like me, choose not to use UB and play normally, in a way it was fun for us, because we aren't in a competition for the largest bank account with the other players.

But some players want by force to make PvE into that.

Curiously, this update tries to increase pugging, and while it introduces the zcoin grind, it lessens all the existing grinds, including leveling the pets.

But people can only bitch because they couldn't get all the stuff for free.

Yes, there is the possibility Anet will become a greedy bitch company and will only offer minimal services and everything else in GW2 will have to be paid.

But people are innocent til found guilty in my moral system. And none of these changes and the past behavior of Anet shows that.

If it changes in the future, then it will be guilty. Not now when nothing happened. Or actually it happened I got 1 pane for free. I got new stuff in the game for free (or not for free but without paying anything else on top of the chapters prices and the slots I bought), from zaishen quests to the travelers gifts, to the menagerie to additional storage from the weapon/armor bags.

Anet does loads of mistakes and shit, which I believe its honest mistakes (or so far as in a business is honest), but they also try to keep their costumers happy and treat them well (bar the idiotic tranzi name policy).

The balance of this update is positive, not perfect, but positive.

DarkNecrid · Apr 27, 2009, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

For me it's not about playing better of worse.

Is about doors opening.

Let's see how people like it if they add a Xunlia Marketplace and you have to purchase 'Market credits' to perform transactions there.

Some boundaries are not to be crossed. Changing the business model in a game that attracted a lot of players partially with that business model is one of those doors.
Let one step in, and the next one is GW having a 'VIP' feature players must pay very month like Dungeon Runners.

Sweet, so basically for you it's all about the made up microtransactions-that-give-you-gameplay-advantages that could happen even though ArenaNet has only done microtransactions-that-don't-give-you-gameplay-advantages.

I know ArenaNet sucks in some places but they've at least proven they aren't stupid when it comes to marketing. They know how to pick their fights and where not to cross the line. This didn't open any "doors". There's not much else they can microtransaction here that fits Guild Wars and their store style.

If one day there's a skill pack that gives you 100 skills you can only get in the store or something, hey, I'll admit I was wrong and that ArenaNet really is stupid, but this day is never going to come because they still firmly believe that the store should not give out competitive advantages to people who pay and only to those people, and to this day, that is still true. Just because you assume a business has to be money hungry and will cross any line the instant they do something even vaguely related to something "bad", doesn't mean it's going to happen.

DreamWind · Apr 27, 2009, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

That is a TERRIBAD argument on itself.

Either GW is selling competitive advantages or its not! There is no mid term.

Ah geez not you. We've been over this already.

Let me put it this way, whether you agree or disagree with microtransactions is irrelevent. You can't say "microtransactions are good for everybody because if you don't like them you don't have to use them, it is optional". If you say that I'm sorry but you are idiotic and I hope to God I don't have to explain why.

I can respect some of the arguments in favor of microtransactions (such as some of JR's), but I only question whether or not it is coincidental that the idiotic argument is the major one being used as a counterargument to the people who disagree with the appearance of so many microtransactions.

Apollo Smile · Apr 27, 2009, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Even if you don't personally purchase any microtransactions, DreamWind; Other people buying them DOES help you in a way. The company getting more money is a good thing for everyone who plays the game. As long as what is offered is sensible I have no qualms with the in-game store.

moriz · Apr 27, 2009, 04:04 AM // 04:04

btw, microtransactions cannot affect actual ingame possibilities (by this, i mean you will never get the "here's 20 ectos, pay 25cents to loot). this is because they cannot charge a price low enough to make it profitable. keep in mind that handling the transactions cost money, and it will rapidly reach a point where the cost of handling that transaction outweighs the money gained.

so please, drop the whole "they're gonna charge you for everything world is gonna end waaaaaah" routine. it won't happen because it doesn't make financial sense.

Improvavel · Apr 27, 2009, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Ah geez not you. We've been over this already.

Let me put it this way, whether you agree or disagree with microtransactions is irrelevent. You can't say "microtransactions are good for everybody because if you don't like them you don't have to use them, it is optional". If you say that I'm sorry but you are idiotic and I hope to God I don't have to explain why.

I can respect some of the arguments in favor of microtransactions (such as some of JR's), but I only question whether or not it is coincidental that the idiotic argument is the major one being used as a counterargument to the people who disagree with the appearance of so many microtransactions.

Are any of the new micro transactions giving any play advantage?

Either they are and you can explain those or they aren't.

I guess being idiotic is pointing the gaps on your arguments - an argument that basically is "the new micro transactions will give advantage to the players", followed by the companion "Anet is a greedy company and GW2 will be a micro transaction fest".

Sincerely the Imp and the bonus weapons give an initial advantage than none of these new buy options give.

Buster · Apr 27, 2009, 04:15 AM // 04:15

I have no problems with the way Arenanet is doing things with the storage,makeovers and name changes because they are all optional. None of them effect gameplay whatsoever.

SerenitySilverstar · Apr 27, 2009, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

What I see here is people expecting a product to succeed in the marketing model the company gave it, and want it to be developed, produced and maintained with that same marketing model.

I guess you missed the memo, oooh say 2 years or so ago, where Anet announced a change in plan. The BUSINESS model (marketing is a different game) has changed - if you can't change with it, not Anet's fault.

If you want the game to remain static as it was at the end of Nightfall, fine. You got it. No money earned from the game means no further updates to the original game. No live team.

But if you want this game to continue to be supported, tell us where the money is going to come from? Under the original model you're SO keen on, that money SHOULD have come from the expansions we were going to get every year (or was it 6 months). If there are no expansions, the live team need income to exist

You simply can't have it both ways. You can't have unsupported free content. It's just not financially viable.