Curse

SpiritThief · Apr 26, 2009, 01:32 PM // 13:32

As long as they dont' go too far.

I would go for extra costumes over armor that would be nice.

The prices are too much I think. I would buy but not until they are cheaper or bundled with character slots. Rather get one character slot and end up with the same amount of space + extra minis

Tho with the prices I expect more richer content in the furture. I want more armors, weapons. Maybe throw some dungeons in prop-nf not as many as gwen but maybe a handful each would be interesting.

DreamWind · Apr 26, 2009, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

What right now happens is misleading propaganda saying that if game is not p2p then you should be grateful that anything is happening in the game. Wrong ... it's them who should be grateful that new players buy their game and it's their job to keep game attractive both for new and existing players. It's because MMO will never be successful with sick community.

Solid. I couldn't have said it better myself. (If I could I would have by now).

pumpkin pie · Apr 26, 2009, 01:46 PM // 13:46

GRRRRRRRR you guys....

buy to play is you buy you use it forever (IMHO) they are making you create tokens/tickets now with the makeover pack and name change, you don't get to keep that features, who cares what they want to sell in the in game store, even if they sell over-power weapons I wouldn't be this agitated if it were BUY AND KEEP TO PLAY ON THE NON SUBSCRIPTIONS FEES SERVER FOREVER.

SEE THE DIFFERENCE? god. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.................

Apollo Smile · Apr 26, 2009, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Its about the freedom.
This isn't complicated, people.
If I don't pay my monthly $15, I will NOT get past the login screen on WoW. If I don't let Blizzard take that 15 bucks off my Credit Card, right on cue, each month, I will get NO ACCESS to ANY part of the game whatsoever.

In Guild Wars, If I refuse to buy a makeover pack or an extra storage pane, I can still log unto the game any time I want. I can still check out updates to the game and do holiday events, missions, pvp, etc. The real "meat" of the game isn't in these optional microtransactions. When I play GW, I have the freedom to CHOOSE if I think the extra enhancements are worth my cash. In a subscription based game, you have to shell out the monthly fee to play or even have access to the game, whether you like the recently added content of not.

In my opinion, the Zaishen Menagerie, Hall of Monuments enhancements, and Zaishen Challenge Quests did alot more for the core game, than changing my hairstyle or name.

AmbientMelody · Apr 26, 2009, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

Its about the freedom.
This isn't complicated, people.
If I don't pay my monthly $15, I will NOT get past the login screen on WoW. If I don't let Blizzard take that 15 bucks off my Credit Card, right on cue, each month, I will get NO ACCESS to ANY part of the game whatsoever.

In Guild Wars, If I refuse to buy a makeover pack or an extra storage pane, I can still log unto the game any time I want. I can still check out updates to the game and do holiday events, missions, pvp, etc. The real "meat" of the game isn't in these optional microtransactions. When I play GW, I have the freedom to CHOOSE if I think the extra enhancements are worth my cash. In a subscription based game, you have to shell out the monthly fee to play or even have access to the game, whether you like the recently added content of not.

Sorry, I must disagree fully on this one.

B2P MMO games with numbers of sold copies even 30% close to Guild Wars have enough money to run their business for years and then release next title and score even more players. It's not like they need something to compensate for the lack of annual fee in order to run the servers and quality service. What they do right now is a simple estimated cost calculation - how many players will they lose due to new b2p model with more and more aggressive microtransactions policy and how many future players will be turned off and then what will be the increased income given willing to pay players. It's not about freedom of choice, it's about making money ... lot's of money. Believe me, it WON'T translate into better technical support, more events, more content. It's purely about money as core game content is already released in paid campaigns and add-ons. The way their payment policy goes clearly indicates that they deviate from b2p model - not to get you a better game, not to bring you more content, but to get more of your money for something that should be essentially free - because you have already paid for it.

It's exactly the same reason as why they fired all if not most pvp testers way ahead of beta upon introduction of Factions and left us with Izzy making 'public-defined' nerfs or boosts, which did the same good as bad. The result is clearly visible ... greed for money destroyed pvp balance, if there was any. Greed for money brought imbalanced, broken gimmick classes. Greed for money brought Ursan which wasn't fixed for very very long so all EOTN users would vanquish every campaign in under two months without any skill involved.

DarkNecrid · Apr 26, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

Sorry, I must disagree fully on this one.

B2P MMO games with numbers of sold copies even 30% close to Guild Wars have enough money to run their business for years and then release next title and score even more players. It's not like they need something to compensate for the lack of annual fee in order to run the servers and quality service. What they do right now is a simple estimated cost calculation - how many players will they lose due to new b2p model with more and more aggressive microtransactions policy and how many future players will be turned off and then what will be the increased income given willing to pay players. It's not about freedom of choice, it's about making money ... lot's of money. Believe me, it WON'T translate into better technical support, more events, more content. It's purely about money as core game content is already released in paid campaigns and add-ons. The way their payment policy goes clearly indicates that they deviate from b2p model - not to get you a better game, not to bring you more content, but to get more of your money for something that should be essentially free - because you have already paid for it.

GW2 doesn't use 100% instanced servers to reduce the server load and so they will have to get a better servers for persistence worlds. There isn't many other B2P then it's free MMOs, and the ones that there have been all have shotty servers, same as F2P ones. Sure, they get by, but they get by by being cheap with their materials. World of Warcraft uses a lot of it's monthly fee money to pay for it's more than 700 servers world wide and hundreds and hundreds of Support members and thousands of GMs.

You did not pay for name changes or character changes, you paid for a license to access their servers. Which you can, but at no point did you pay for anything other than this license, and now they're offering you the option to pay for other stuff besides. None of it affects your ability to compete with other people, and the profit will surely be going to help GW2 out.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. That's the quickest way to send a message to a business, assuming other people agree with your notion.

Personally, I don't need a name change because I can type my character's name correctly, I don't need extra storage because I don't mind a little inconvenience, and I don't need to change the look/sex of my character because they all look fine as is. But someone else might get something out of it, and all the more power to them.

AmbientMelody · Apr 26, 2009, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

GW2 doesn't use 100% instanced servers to reduce the server load and so they will have to get a better servers for persistence worlds. There isn't many other B2P then it's free MMOs, and the ones that there have been all have shotty servers, same as F2P ones. Sure, they get by, but they get by by being cheap with their materials. World of Warcraft uses a lot of it's monthly fee money to pay for it's more than 700 servers world wide and hundreds and hundreds of Support members and thousands of GMs.

You did not pay for name changes or character changes, you paid for a license to access their servers. Which you can, but at no point did you pay for anything other than this license, and now they're offering you the option to pay for other stuff besides. None of it affects your ability to compete with other people, and the profit will surely be going to help GW2 out.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. That's the quickest way to send a message to a business, assuming other people agree with your notion.

Personally, I don't need a name change because I can type my character's name correctly, I don't need extra storage because I don't mind a little inconvenience, and I don't need to change the look/sex of my character because they all look fine as is. But someone else might get something out of it, and all the more power to them.

To summarise - it's about unwritten laws and guidelines which companies that care about their reputation should follow. I remember back from 2005 how was Guild Wars advertised and how it deviated over the years. This update is simply a climax of my nightmares.

Professor K · Apr 26, 2009, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Because nobody expected an experimental business model to evolve or change... Did it even occur to you that Guild Wars most likely takes more to maintain than it was when it was just Prophecies?

DarkNecrid · Apr 26, 2009, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

To summarise - it's about unwritten laws and guidelines which companies that care about their reputation should follow. I remember back from 2005 how was Guild Wars advertised and how it deviated over the years. This update is simply a climax of my nightmares.

I'd like you to show me the advertising (box/commercials/trailers) that is misleading here. They said they'd never have a Korean cash shop, that is, a Cash shop that gives you a gameplay advantage over another player (skills/equipment/etc only gotten through the store through real money). This is something that to this day is still true, there is nothing in the store that gives you a gameplay advantage over another player.

AmbientMelody · Apr 26, 2009, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor K

Because nobody expected an experimental business model to evolve or change... Did it even occur to you that Guild Wars most likely takes more to maintain than it was when it was just Prophecies?

Back then they were happy with 100k accounts sold. Now they sold over 6m and got money already from things like BMP, unlock packs etc. It was experimental business because no one did it before in this scale, but deep to the core it was well thought. In one of interviews they said that they didn't expect such a success. It means that their business model was designed to run the servers at least for a couple of years without selling any campaign and to maintain servers even with number of sold copies as low as 300-400 thousands. Adding new servers and improving them is not linear to number of players ... if it was, I would have lovely 50-70ms pings like I used to have when Prophecies was released only, instead of having 200-350+ pings like now.

Apollo Smile · Apr 26, 2009, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Sounds like an issue on your side. My ping has never been near that high.

Improvavel · Apr 26, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

People. Will you on this bloody earth stop messing f2p with b2p? Everyone who plays this game has essentially paid for it. In f2p the only thing you have to do is register an account, download game and play.

There is no need for a customer who bought a game to be grateful that the game is ******* alive and still attractive to new players, as well as being grateful that there are any updates, fixes and such.

YOU HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR IT.

Telling someone who has bought every single campaign, eotn and bmp that he is playing 'free-to-play' game and that he should be essentially grateful that there was any update at all (lol?) is just plain silly.

People, grow up.

Guild Wars IS NOT free to play.
Guild Wars IS NOT free to play.
Guild Wars IS NOT free to play.
Guild Wars IS NOT free to play.
Guild Wars IS NOT free to play.
Guild Wars IS NOT free to play.

Once you understand this simple principle you will see clearly what a customer should expect a company he bought a product from in terms of quality service and content that keeps game attractive.

Anet is not a charity company. You pay your hard-earned money for their games, which essentially are advertised as b2p game.

If you have too much money in your wallet that's fine, but don't insist that Anet will go bankrupt if they don't resort to cheap microtransactions tactics like in this update. Also, don't be fooled that it costed them god-knows-how much money. And finally, stop believing that p2p model for a mmo is something normal. It is just as normal as other business models like b2p and f2p.

I see no reason to pay for content which I have the right for since I bought the game just because someone on the top is greedy and thought it would be cool to drain your money before you are allowed to play and then drain your money for the game to be enjoyable.

What right now happens is misleading propaganda saying that if game is not p2p then you should be grateful that anything is happening in the game. Wrong ... it's them who should be grateful that new players buy their game and it's their job to keep game attractive both for new and existing players. It's because MMO will never be successful with sick community.

Remember, you have paid for this game. And now they offer you something which essentially shouldn't cost you a cent because it's content for which you have already paid - said makeovers. Not to mention it's core gameplay and flavour, not some not-necessary-to-enjoy content like BMP.

I've to disagree.

You paid for what was in the box and the ability to play it online.

While the game changed over the years, most of those changes happened with the release of the new chapters, which you had the option of not buying them if you didn't like the changes.

So, when you bought the game you only had 1 pane of storage - you weren't expecting 8 panes of storage. You had 4 character slots and 2 more per chapter. You didn't have 25 character slots just because you can buy upto 25. When you bought guidwars you couldn't change a character name or appearance after creation.

You got what you paid for. And bought the game even without having 9 storage panes, the ability to change name, etc.

No one forced you to buy the game.

All the optionals, expensive or not, useful or not, didn't change the way the game was or its fundamentals.

You have a game that can be played online, updates happen to balance skills, fix bugs, add areas like SF, etc. That is what you paid for, that is what you have.

In that light you get stuff that you hadn't paid for, like festivals, menagerie, the books, zaishen quests, etc.

You don't need to be grateful to Anet, after all they only added those because they wanted and because it will help to please their costumer base, but on the other hand you can't really demand stuff you hadn't paid for.

TL,DR - You got what you have paid for (and some extras). All the new optionals you can buy now, if you wish, don't fundamentally change the game you bought in the first place.

AmbientMelody · Apr 26, 2009, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I've to disagree.

You paid for what was in the box and the ability to play it online.

While the game changed over the years, most of those changes happened with the release of the new chapters, which you had the option of not buying them if you didn't like the changes.

So, when you bought the game you only had 1 pane of storage - you weren't expecting 8 panes of storage. You had 4 character slots and 2 more per chapter. You didn't have 25 character slots just because you can buy upto 25. When you bought guidwars you couldn't change a character name or appearance after creation.

You got what you paid for. And bought the game even without having 9 storage panes, the ability to change name, etc.

No one forced you to buy the game.

All the optionals, expensive or not, useful or not, didn't change the way the game was or its fundamentals.

You have a game that can be played online, updates happen to balance skills, fix bugs, add areas like SF, etc. That is what you paid for, that is what you have.

In that light you get stuff that you hadn't paid for, like festivals, menagerie, the books, zaishen quests, etc.

You don't need to be grateful to Anet, after all they only added those because they wanted and because it will help to please their costumer base, but on the other hand you can't really demand stuff you hadn't paid for.

TL,DR - You got what you have paid for (and some extras). All the new optionals you can buy now, if you wish, don't fundamentally change the game you bought in the first place.

To stop this endless debate I will just quote myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

To summarise - it's about unwritten laws and guidelines which companies that care about their reputation should follow.

It's against my own morality and ethics to introduce something like paid makeovers allowing to mix-cross appearance from every campaign.

I'm not talking about licenses and law, because it can be argued to eternity what are final duties of a company and final rights of license user/holder.

I'm not naive, I'm honest.

What I stated is that I don't approve new Anet politics.

There are more like me, just like opportunistic people who can't be arsed over such nuissances and will just pay for makeover without thinking a second about it.

And please, for the love of god, don't quote my entire post if you haven't read it (too long; didn't read ... sry, who are you? time to grow up for a discussion).

bhavv · Apr 26, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

God, when will people stop whining?

Anet have had GW out for 4 years now, and have provided you all with this online game to play with no subscription fees.

You buy the game and pay once. You can then carry on playing forever without paying anymore.

The game is still like that, 100% the same, with no changes. You pay for the game / campaign once, and no, YOU ABSOLUTELY DO NOT HAVE TO PAY ANY EXTRA TO PLAY 100% OF THE GAMES CONTENT!.

Now, this is an MMO, and like all other MMO's requires regular updates, server maintenence, and Anet have lots of staff members to pay who need to make a living.

They havnt had a new release out since EOTN, and are still a long way away from releasing GW2, and they still have bills to pay, food to eat, and maybe kids to look after as well.

They need money. Anet hires *ACTUAL REAL PEOPLE* who provide you with this amazing game, updates, and continuous dedication and support for a pay once, play forever style of game.

When they started GW, they said that they would make their money to pay for their costs by releasing an expansion pack every 6 months? Well, they kind of arent making any more expansion packs for GW1, are busy slaving away with 12-16 hour a day shifts, grinding with punching in programming code and designing graphics and pretty stuff for your next game, GW2.

They realised that they wont be able to get GW2 out anytime soon, and that there arent so many people buying GW1 anymore (Really, there isnt. People who already have any interest in the game have already bought it, and the numbers of players are actually in steady decline now).

Anet wants to carry on working on GW2. You, the greedy customers, want GW2.

But in order to get GW2, as well as continue updating and providing support for GW1, Anet need money to pay for their staff to be able to pay their living expenses, and right now, they have no other way of making money then to introduce micro transactions.

If you really feel so outright and morally outraged by this decision, then you can do one of three things:

1) Whine, whinge, cry, wah wah, and get nowhere other then wasting your own time.

2) Refuse to buy the items, but continue to enjoy playing the game with no monthly or extra costs over your initial purchase price (Best option IMO)

3) Rage quit the game and go somewhere else. I wish you good luck with trying to find another MMO that is as fair with its customer charges as GW is. I have already tried this for many years, and the only equivalently good deal I found is the lifetime subscriptiopn charge for LOTRO, but that is still very expensive at £150.

You only other option is to play an MMO with:

1) Free to download and play, but with micro transactions (E.G, Maple Story, Perfect World etc)

2) Pay fees, usually $10 per month (E.G. WoW, AoC, WAR, LOTRO), yet you still have to pay full price for expansions and server changes / character renames (Buning Crusade, WOTLK, Mines of Moria, wait you pay $10 per month PLUS you pay for the expansions ??? Thats a lot more expensive than GW).

3) Pay once, lifetime subscription, still have to pay for expansions though (LOTRO - £150 to get the same kind of gameplay as you have in GW).

Sorry to disagree with the whiners, but GW still has by far the best and most fair payment method and charges out of every MMO currently out there. You are seriously going to struggle to find a better game for your money anywhere else.

I hardly even play GW anymore, reinstalling the whole game again right now to try out the new updates, but even I appreciate how much fairer the costs for GW are then other rip - off Western MMO's.

Blizzard do not need to be charging 10 million subscibers $10 per month, but hey, they do anyway, and good for them that they leech close to $100 million every month from the people that pay those fees. In comparison to this, Anet earn and survive on peanuts.

Apollo Smile · Apr 26, 2009, 03:29 PM // 15:29

I agree with what you said, bhavv. Sometimes I wonder if all these people complaining have even played other games.

pumpkin pie · Apr 26, 2009, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

snipped YOU ABSOLUTELY DO NOT HAVE TO PAY ANY EXTRA TO PLAY 100% OF THE GAMES CONTENT!.snipped

storage not game content?

btw, Requiem - Bloodymare is the best deal out there now, absolute zero fees.

upier · Apr 26, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

To summarise - it's about unwritten laws and guidelines which companies that care about their reputation should follow.

Morals are for pussies.
Winners take money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

snip

Most of what you said is irrelevant.
The same way that A.Net isn't a charity, the users aren't a charity.
A.Net doesn't have enough money to found GW2?
Well then, I guess somebody will just have to look for a real job!

The problem is that WE, the consumers aren't acting normal.
A normal consumer that does not approve of a product, stops supporting that product.
We aren't doing that. We're just bitching and buying.

Gforce · Apr 26, 2009, 03:53 PM // 15:53

You already have storage

All the micro transactions are optional

pumpkin pie · Apr 26, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

for me: the bottom line is
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Arena Net NO MORE MICRO TRANSACTION. Do more mission packs, what ever pack thing you wanna do, make it buy once as a pack and be able to use at will in the game and be done with, don't be making us open tickets and buy tokens to exchange for items/service in the game.

bhavv · Apr 26, 2009, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

storage not game content?

btw, Requiem - Bloodymare is the best deal out there now, absolute zero fees.

GW has absolutely zero fees as well, am I missing something here?

And is this Requiem Bloodymare 4 years old with no fees or micro transactions whatsoever? I doubt it.

There are no fees in GW, and the storage updates are optional, If you dont want them, then dont buy them and be happy that you still arent paying any fees?

I dont understand your argument at all:

- You dont want to pay for the extra storage right?
- So you're not going to pay for the extra storage ...
- Meaning you still arent paying anything to play and enjoy the game?

So what is your problem if others choose to buy the storage updates? It gets Anet more money to spend on their future games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Morals are for pussies.
Winners take money.

The same way that A.Net isn't a charity, the users aren't a charity.
A.Net doesn't have enough money to found GW2?

I would have said it as bluntly as that, but I made an attempt to point out simple reasons why they need that money, rather than just simply saying 'Anet = company, company wants to make money'.

You dont have to agree with my points at all, but yes, the people working at Anet want some extra money, as they hardly make the same amount as what others like Blizzard make.

If you dont want to pay (not you Upier, but to anyone that doesnt want to pay for updates), then simply dont pay??? Is it that hard? You dont pay, you still get to play and enjoy the game with the same amount of storage you have had for 4 years. If that is really so bad, then you should have quit a long time ago due to the lack of storage maybe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

for me: the bottom line is
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Arena Net NO MORE MICRO TRANSACTION. Do more mission packs, what ever pack thing you wanna do, make it buy once as a pack and be able to use at will in the game and be done with, don't be making us open tickets and buy tokens to exchange for items/service in the game.

I think you missed the whole part where they are not making anymore content for GW1, they are only working on GW2 in terms of making something new right now?