Curse

Greedy Gus · May 02, 2009, 11:16 PM // 23:16

The quest rewards are messed up: they're acting like zaishen coins are precious resources and are far too stingy with them.

For instance, I can win 2 hero battles and turn in the quest for 6k faction and .5 silver z-coins. I would have to repeat this 20 times (40 wins) in order to get a single z-key (1 gold z-coin). Meanwhile I would have made 24 z-keys in faction.

I really doubt they intended z-coins to be such a uselessly small fraction of the z-quest reward (when you can directly judge the value of z-coins vs. faction through z-keys), unless they actually want 15/20 equipment packs to take forever to get.

Reminds me of when they introduced pvp faction originally, and didn't price it very well (had to be increased by many orders of magnitude before the system worked).

Luckily an easy quick change is to just adjust the rate for transferring silver to gold. Especially because right now no one should have any gold coins yet, as it only takes 2 slots to store all current z-coins. That actually may not be enough, but would be a decent start. You could pretty much drop the rate to 1:1 (silver=gold) to be more in line, though it would make the system pretty goofy in the transition.

tyrant rex · May 02, 2009, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Especially because right now no one should have any gold coins yet, as it only takes 2 slots to store all current z-coins

there are people with heavy equip packs already lol the pvp rewards seem fair for the most part but some of the pve once need to get adjusted like getting 105 copper for hm stygian vale is a joke or 105 for hm kathandrax

edit-good point lol

Greedy Gus · May 02, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

I meant you never need to transfer up to gold unless you're at 250 silver, because it simply wastes a storage slot. As far as the coin rewards being fair for pvp, I'm not sure you're seeing the same numbers. In the most efficient method of accumulation, zcoins account for about 3% of the quest reward value (faction being 80%, and gold 17%), directly comparable through zkeys.

tyrant rex · May 03, 2009, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

I meant you never need to transfer up to gold unless you're at 250 silver, because it simply wastes a storage slot. As far as the coin rewards being fair for pvp, I'm not sure you're seeing the same numbers. In the most efficient method of accumulation, zcoins account for about 3% of the quest reward value (faction being 80%, and gold 17%), directly comparable through zkeys.

thats only if your going after zkeys? if your going for heavy pack/booze/party points/sweets/lockpicks the numbers seem better no?

Arduin · May 03, 2009, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Grind is completing the same quests or missions or killing the same monsters over and over, repetitively.

Grind is having to kill the same monsters or completing the same missions or quests over and over only because of not being able to progress further in the game. Like you being a lvl 15 at point A, and not being able to go to point B because enemies are all lvl 25, and would own you on the spot. Grind is forced upon you, because if you wouldn't grind, you would be stuck.

So no, collecting the proper amount of money for an item that isn't needed to progress in the game is not grind.

That's how grind is defined, anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Since I have completed that dungeon several times before, doing that dungeon yet again, would be a grind to me.

Then don't do that dungeon. Skip that quest, and try again next day. Complete only the quests or missions you like to do. And if there aren't any quests or missions any more you like to do, what's there left to do for you anyway?

Oh, and pretty good post there tmakinen. You are right about people yelling 'grind' for any action they choose to do twice in this game.

Daesu · May 03, 2009, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Grind is having to kill the same monsters or completing the same missions or quests over and over only because of not being able to progress further in the game. Like you being a lvl 15 at point A, and not being able to go to point B because enemies are all lvl 25, and would own you on the spot. Grind is forced upon you, because if you wouldn't grind, you would be stuck.

Just because there is a reward that is tied to grind doesn't mean it becomes no grind. I completed all campaigns so I should have the necessary equipment, but I have to grind in order to get the equipment pack by performing the quests/missions that I have already done again and again.

WE NEED NEW CONTENT! Or do you still think we dont deserve new content? Since they didnt want to give us new content, it becomes a grind to go back to old missions and quests.

And dont give me that bullshit of ANet saving money by not hiring artists for the live team. When they save money we are the ones that suffer and deprived ourselves from new content. That is no excuse! They just want more money and a fatter bottom line unless you are blind to all these micro-transactions they are asking for.

Quote:

So no, collecting the proper amount of money for an item that isn't needed to progress in the game is not grind.

It is grind because the reward for these new items should be new challenges and new missions and new quests. It becomes grind if the reward tied to repeat OLD challenges, OLD missions and OLD quests again and again.

Quote:

Then don't do that dungeon. Skip that quest, and try again next day. Complete only the quests or missions you like to do. And if there aren't any quests or missions any more you like to do, what's there left to do for you anyway?

If I skip that dungeon then I wont have the reward. That is what grind is about. Grind is always tied to some form of in-game reward because if there is no reward grind would be optional. They have to dangle the carrot so people would grind for it.

Tom Swift · May 03, 2009, 01:57 AM // 01:57

lol

why are we arguing about the definition of grind?

Who cares if it's grind or not?

It's still boring and painful as heck.

wetwillyhip · May 03, 2009, 02:00 AM // 02:00

gesh... 7500x12 characters.... 90,000 copper coins.... IEIEIE. See people complain that zquests should be account based so those with many characters don't have an advantage over ppl who only play on 1-2. See the thing is, i have 12, and I want to get heavy equip backs on all 12.... it's still gonna be just as painful for me to do that as it is for all you other single players out there....

Dzjudz · May 03, 2009, 02:11 AM // 02:11

To all the people calling it repetition/grind. I don't know about you, but I hadn't done Divinity Coast in months, if not years, especially in HM.

HawkofStorms · May 03, 2009, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

To all the people calling it repetition/grind. I don't know about you, but I hadn't done Divinity Coast in months, if not years, especially in HM.

Exactly. I do see how "I've done it once before" means its grind to do it again.
To those who have done everything in GW PvE already (like me)... what do you do besides repeat content? By this logic, everything in the game is grind.

Lux Aeterna · May 03, 2009, 03:30 AM // 03:30

It's like when brand new nice cars come out.

That's cool, what a nice car. 250hp stock, right ?

Then you keep walking miles to work so you can pay rent AND buy food.

I bought the small equipment pack at a slightly painful price, then went back to what I do and completely ignored the Zquests.

Lonesamurai · May 03, 2009, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetwillyhip

gesh... 7500x12 characters.... 90,000 copper coins.... IEIEIE. See people complain that zquests should be account based so those with many characters don't have an advantage over ppl who only play on 1-2. See the thing is, i have 12, and I want to get heavy equip backs on all 12.... it's still gonna be just as painful for me to do that as it is for all you other single players out there....

Don't fret, they will be tradeable and I can guarantee they will become hot tradeables on the market soon

Daesu · May 03, 2009, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Exactly. I do see how "I've done it once before" means its grind to do it again.
To those who have done everything in GW PvE already (like me)... what do you do besides repeat content? By this logic, everything in the game is grind.

Yes it is grind because I have done them before on all my 16 playable pve characters (who completed through all 4 campaigns) and now I have to do it again as a zquest.

Furthermore, I have been grinding old missions just before the April update to work on my KoaBD, which is another grind but now with the April update, I have to do them again since they are not retroactive.

I prefer to play new content than to repeat old ones again and again, by this time.

Raccoon · May 03, 2009, 06:31 AM // 06:31

The idea of the zaishen quests is to make people play the game. Not sit around talking about boobs in Lions arch after you have done everything just once.

Consider the packs incentive to do the quests. I'm actually enjoying the fact that I can come on to play and do missions and quests I forgot all about.

Daesu · May 03, 2009, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon

The idea of the zaishen quests is to make people play the game. Not sit around talking about boobs in Lions arch after you have done everything just once.

Consider the packs incentive to do the quests. I'm actually enjoying the fact that I can come on to play and do missions and quests I forgot all about.

You dont get KoaBD just by sitting around in Lions arch after completing the game and I certainly wasn't sitting around just to chat.

I dont know about you but to me, there are already enough grind in this game like KoaBD, faction allegiance title, etc. It is time they refresh the game with fresh new content for us to play in, rather than just a new equipment bag. Don't you agree?

tmakinen · May 03, 2009, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

now I have to do it again as a zquest.

See, there's your problem in the plain view. Guild Wars is a game, i.e., recreational activity that is supposed to be entertaining and fun. If it feels like a chore forced on you then you are doing it wrong. Like I mentioned earlier, I did Kathandrax HM last night with a full allied team. It's not like I hadn't done Kathandrax HM several times before, usually as 2 real players + 6 heroes to help a guildie who needed it. Considering that I have 32 titles maxed on my main and 3 more almost there it is fair to say that whatever there is on the PvE side of the game I have done it, and most of it many, many times over. However, I hadn't done Kathandrax HM with that particular team before and even if I had, allies always find new ways to entertain the team

The Z-coins are a side bonus. Heck, even the dungeon and its rewards are a side bonus. The real deal is to have a good time with friends. The activity doesn't matter. If you are not having fun then you should ask yourself why you are still playing the game.

Daesu · May 03, 2009, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

However, I hadn't done Kathandrax HM with that particular team before and even if I had, allies always find new ways to entertain the team

The Z-coins are a side bonus. Heck, even the dungeon and its rewards are a side bonus. The real deal is to have a good time with friends. The activity doesn't matter. If you are not having fun then you should ask yourself why you are still playing the game.

PUGs dont always work out well for me. Nobody is going to guarantee you a good successful PUG experience every single time. I tried THK HM 5 times with PUGs and they all failed so it wasn't a nice experience. Why do they decide to run away and let the king tank for them? If the king dies we all fail the mission anyway. I tried it once with H/H and I passed the first time. Yes, after failing it 5 times in one day, it does feel like a chore so dont even try to sell the idea of pugging to me. I clear most quests and missions much faster, using my H/H, than the average PUG.

tmakinen · May 03, 2009, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

after failing it 5 times in one day, it does feel like a chore.

I concur. Then your problem appears to be that you are missing a decent guild/alliance. What I am seeing is that player activity in our alliance has gone way up and magically everybody has the same objectives. Playing hasn't been so much fun for a long time (heroes may perform well but their social skills are rather limited), and the longer it lasts the better in my opinion.

Daesu · May 03, 2009, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

....and the longer it lasts the better in my opinion.

Not if your goal is to get the 15 or 20 slot bags as soon as possible by repeating quests through all your characters (8 per account) across 2 accounts.

I would have enjoyed the game better in my own time, if the prices of the bags are not that steep for PvE players.

legendel · May 03, 2009, 07:17 AM // 07:17

sorry to say this, but after reading the first page of whining about the quests i decided to skip the next 9 pages in case that was the same.

I have to say i love the new zaishen quests/missions. It's giving me a new way to work on skill hunter on my secondary and on guardian too, not too bothered about the PVP, but i might just get 3 of the same as they come around (possibly AB every time they do one) and then see if i can ge the requirements for 1 and cash it in 3 times. As for the 20 slot bag, yeah it's expensive, but so is loads of stuff, at least this way i have to work for it, and not just buy gold online and buy something in game.

Thanks for a great update IMHO (puts on "flame" retardent suit)