Curse

Gforce · May 01, 2009, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tullzinski

PVP only: 7500 coins for a Heavy Pack:

Total for the 6 days doing each PVP once is 1435 coins

7500 divided by 1435 is 5.22. Effectively you completed 6 days worth PVP quests 5 times over and you did not experience any grind? Impressive.

Now this is a little harder to lock down since you did not give any detailed information about which battles you did more that others.

GvG quest x9 = 3150
TA quest x8 = 1400
AB quest x6 = 1050
HA quest x5 = 1750
HB quest x5 (did this without AT matches) = 625
RA quest once = 105
Some PvE Quests = Around 300 I think

I am pretty sure that is exactly how I did the quests.. Note that it is more than 7500 because I accidentaly gave in the wrong quests a few times, and I didnt do the AT match in all GvG quests.

I can tell you why I dont feel this is grind: I always play PvP, so playing all these formats is normal to me. The only thing I would not normally do is change character after a few wins, but playing different characters is not really grind to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiros

whether or not it's grind really depends on the memory of the person playing. people with good memories will be able to recognize larger portions of events that have already occurred and claim 'this is repetition/grinding'. others will not recognize anything and say 'a new quest every day! no grind!'. unfortunately, this is penalizing people with good memories. telling mathematicians, chemists, physicists that they will receive a handicap for their pattern recognition seems a little unjust. the kid who enjoys sticking a fork in an electrical socket every day will undoubtedly grow up to be resilient, i'm sure. but it seems like the light socket kid won't be the one finding the higgs boson or solving np hard problems. but, in his defense, he will have a heavy equipment bag.

That's a really short sighted response. I think a lot of the people still playing guild wars are always playing the same content (being PvE or PvP), since nothing new has been added for a long time. However, playing it in different ways (with different characters for PvE, different builds / opponents for PvP) makes the experience different. That has nothing to do with having good memory...

AmbientMelody · May 01, 2009, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amon Warrior

The equipment packs are a nice, useful addition. The problem is the crazy amount of time that you'd have to go through just to get a maximum of 20 slots for armor and weapons.

It is simply not possible for me to spend so much time grinding over this. Whatever happened to skill over grinding? That was one of the reasons I originally started to play Guild Wars. Going after titles and such is indeed optional, but to be able to acquire a useful extra bag you have to grind so much?

I hope to see the equipment packs available in a less taxing way 'cause right now it's really not possible to get them unless you have a lot of time in your hands and a taste for grind...

Keep whining and they will delete the option to get 20-slot equipment pack in the game and they will introduce it for 14.99$ instead.

glacialphoenix · May 01, 2009, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiros

whether or not it's grind really depends on the memory of the person playing. people with good memories will be able to recognize larger portions of events that have already occurred and claim 'this is repetition/grinding'. others will not recognize anything and say 'a new quest every day! no grind!'. unfortunately, this is penalizing people with good memories. telling mathematicians, chemists, physicists that they will receive a handicap for their pattern recognition seems a little unjust. the kid who enjoys sticking a fork in an electrical socket every day will undoubtedly grow up to be resilient, i'm sure. but it seems like the light socket kid won't be the one finding the higgs boson or solving np hard problems. but, in his defense, he will have a heavy equipment bag.

I'm sorry?

I don't think it has anything to do with memory. If you're going to do the same quest on the same character, yes you will find it grind. Even if you do know the area (I must have done Ring of Fire about a gazillion times for various reasons, including helping friends and for the heck of it) you may find the experience different if you're playing on a different character.

Today I took my necro into HM for the first time, playing Divinity Coast - and I've already played it many times before, but doing it this time round was different from playing it on my monk or my ele.

Deleet · May 01, 2009, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amon Warrior

The equipment packs are a nice, useful addition. The problem is the crazy amount of time that you'd have to go through just to get a maximum of 20 slots for armor and weapons.

It is simply not possible for me to spend so much time grinding over this. Whatever happened to skill over grinding? That was one of the reasons I originally started to play Guild Wars. Going after titles and such is indeed optional, but to be able to acquire a useful extra bag you have to grind so much?

I hope to see the equipment packs available in a less taxing way 'cause right now it's really not possible to get them unless you have a lot of time in your hands and a taste for grind...

The skill over time spent ideology does not apply to item storage, only to character power.

Besides, you don't need to spend that much time. I've spent only a couple of hours and I've already got 1 gold coin.

the_jos · May 01, 2009, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

I fail to see why doing a mission for the 6th time in GW is 'fun' when your reward is a common 20 slot pack that was made rare on purpose to recycle content and keep us playing.

I fail to see why you should rant on something you should never care about since you got bored with the content ages ago.
This isn't about storage, it's about lack of new content. An ongoing mantra.

Please Gun, you are not the only player with LC, LG and other titles.
Not everyone got bored with the game, I know many who got bored (most of my old-time friends) and many who are still playing.

I really don't care if the storage pack is 20, 30, 40, 50 or 100 gold zoins.
It enables me to do some stuff with others, guildies, friends or random players. I will get that storage pack someday, doesn't have to be today or this week since I managed without for over 3 years.

Did I get bored of the game and content? Up to a certain point I did indeed. I'm still thinking about a switch to PvP though a shoulder injury prevents me from very active play at the moment.
But I didn't get bored of playing with guildies or friends. Or even randoms. It's still fun to do even when I've seen the mission for dunno how many times.

Perhaps you should just quit (if you didn't do that yet) and wait for GW2 to appear.

beaverlegions · May 01, 2009, 11:16 AM // 11:16

This is PVE.
You could also say Hundreds of hours for a suit of armour. And the armor doesnt even have better stats than the regular one.
Please stop whining for an easy button in guild wars.

Arkantos · May 01, 2009, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

GW was supposed to be grind free, but nowadays what people are doing is nothing else. It is of course optional, as people are always quick to say.

That was thrown out the window when EotN was released.

Quote:

Grind rewards you with more storage. "Casual" players or those who just do not want to grind for a damn bag and do every day what some NPC tells them to do must make do with 5 slot bags.

Again, it's not grind. Doing different quests each day is not grind. Casual players can easily get the 20 slot bag, all they have to do is a mission and a bounty (and some PvP if they enjoy it) to get the bag. Sure, it takes time, but time != grind. Apparently patience is a word that most of you don't understand. The more free/easy things thrown at you, the less there is to do in the game, the faster you're going to get bored. What ANet did was good, but the playerbase is too damn lazy, and expect everything to be handed to them.

hallomik · May 01, 2009, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Did you ever notice that your Guru classification (presearing cadet, academy page, etc.) is a function of how many posts you've made? In order to get to an impressive title, you need to grind out thousands of posts. Mindlessly typing words over and over and over again, recycling the same tired arguments repeatedly will eventually net you a title like "Forge Runner" making you the envy of friends and enemies alike.

The scheming fiends at Guru have even created a way to profit from your desire for a title. In exchange for real money, they will let you create your own impressive title. Those bastards know how desirable a title is. Sure, they need to save money to develop Guild Wars 2 Guru and run their web servers, but they are taking advantage of all poster's desire to get an impressive title quickly. For the rest of us, the only alternative is to grind and grind posts.

When I see a person who has posted dozens and dozens of posts over a few days, I know what it is. It looks, smells and sounds like a duck. It's grind! No one could possibly enjoy posting on the same topic over and over again.

I hope people with a moral objection to grind will wake up to the pointless treadmill they are on! If you hate grind like me, stop posting immediately! Don't give those who run Guru the satisfaction.

Gli · May 01, 2009, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Not everyone got bored with the game, I know many who got bored (most of my old-time friends) and many who are still playing.

I'm not bored with the game, yet I loathe the way the larger packs are dealt with. Because, if I want to buy one with coins, I have to spend much of my online time doing missions and bounties I might not want to do at that point. I still have my own things going on, despite having played for almost 4 years. I don't need hand-holding and by-the-nose-leading to make the game artificially interesting for me. When I log on, I don't want someone telling me what random thing to do next. I log on to do what I want to do, what interests me at the time. Right now, that's playing my mesmer through Eye of the North. After that, it'll be Factions and Prophecies. I don't want to spend my time doing random bits of content for no particular reason other than to score a measly amount of Z-coins so I can buy a bag. Especially if it's something I'll have to do dozens of times. That's not how I want to spend my rather limited playing time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

It enables me to do some stuff with others, guildies, friends or random players.

I don't see 'enabling', I see people being 'forced' into doing something for no other reason than a reward they can't get in any other way. Playing with guildies is something I've always done anyway, and ironically, I'm not anymore. Because I'm playing my mesmer while they're dancing to the Zaishen tune. No one talks about anything else than the zaishen quests anymore in guild chat. Disgusting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Did I get bored of the game and content? Up to a certain point I did indeed. I'm still thinking about a switch to PvP though a shoulder injury prevents me from very active play at the moment.
But I didn't get bored of playing with guildies or friends. Or even randoms. It's still fun to do even when I've seen the mission for dunno how many times.

I'm not bored with the game. So I guess these Zaishen quests where an update to reinvigorate bored players? I hope the bored players enjoy their packs. I wonder what the next update will bring to relieve their boredom. Maybe it'll be something I can enjoy too, but I'm guessing it'll be just more useless stuff to fill up more bags and storage panes.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great they made something for bored players. It's just a damn shame they tied the acquisition of equipment packs into it the way they did. It completely precludes normal play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Again, it's not grind. Doing different quests each day is not grind. Casual players can easily get the 20 slot bag, all they have to do is a mission and a bounty (and some PvP if they enjoy it) to get the bag.

Grind or no grind, I don't care. What if a player just wants to play through the game, which is the most basically casual thing to do? Playing different quests and missions all the way, but no bag for you!

Gun Pierson · May 01, 2009, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Perhaps you should just quit.

Perhaps you're right.

@Hallomik: That's cheap what you write there, I don't give a dam about the post counts on guru, they can remove it from under my avatar. I'm here to debate about game design etc. This happens on a game forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordiego

This game is about achieving sth not getting it for free. QQ FTW, bro.

What do you think I have been doing in GW last 4 years dude? The packs should not be linked to zoins though.

PvP'rs smell an opportunity ofcourse and I don't blame them.

Mordiego · May 01, 2009, 01:16 PM // 13:16

U can always quit GW. I can't see any problem in it. This game is about achieving sth not getting it for free. QQ FTW, bro.

zwei2stein · May 01, 2009, 01:55 PM // 13:55

I wonder since when did having storage for junk become achievement whose dificulty and manitude needs to be defended by elite anti-QQ squad. But even their defence does not remove few facts:

1) Rewards are poorly structured. Its is basically 20 slot pack or nothing (well, or you wasted 1 or 5 hard to get gold zoins. You do not do that if it took you several days to get one). Which is of course out of time/gratification curve for most people.

If people could get 10 slot pack and upgrade them later, we would not see this thread, because people would get cheapie and good start on long grind with another milestone not far. That is how leveling is structured and how it manages to function. It is not max level or nothing. Packs are. Hell, 20 slot bag every 3-4 days would keep me busy for months since it would change its value from main-char-only (2 months? not gonna bother - i am not) to all-mules-get-one (2 months for all? Can do it.). I would settle for 10 slot packs if they could be upgraded later and buying em would not mean wasting zoins (*twitch* OCD), I am condifent lot of people would feel same.

Not to mention that every other reward is gotten easier and faster by solo farming. If Zoins were good way to max 10k point titles easy to get packs would not be issue either (or would they?) because people would have more than one reason to do zquests.

2) Long road. If your only reason to log in to game is to get 20 pack, well, too bad. By time you get your coveted 20 pack, you are done with game and/or seriously burned out. Its just kind of undeath.

3) Forcing people to play with people, hmm... I did enjoy first few quest barrages, but it gets tiring soon.

I ended up just forgeting bags and doing Zquests if there is another reason to do them (like lacking bonus or mission done on secondary character, zquest giving reputation points, needing hm mission on main, needing vq area with boss on main ... etc.). Since that is usually in NM, and zquesters want HM, too bad, I am not going to be in your party. I am sure you do not miss me, but still.

Bags are too far away to serve as "lets do some pve NOW!" magnet.

4) Poor expectation management.

Frankly, people expected their storage issues "solved" in speedy manner after update.

30 stacks of copper zoins were quite harsh wake up call that hit like 10 ton anvil.

Not exactly smart.

---

All in all:

QQ, WTB: rune of major holding, 4 zoins and rune of superior holding, 10 zoins.

Tom Swift · May 01, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

What ANet did was good, but the playerbase is too damn lazy, and expect everything to be handed to them.

What is it that makes people unable to see a middle ground? When players complain that something is too expensive or too much work, people assume we want it "free." Did the world suddenly become black and white and lose all shades of gray or color? Or did the word "reasonable" lose its meaning?

We want to put in an reasonable amount of work - not an excessive amount or free.

the_jos · May 01, 2009, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I'm not bored with the game, yet I loathe the way the larger packs are dealt with. Because, if I want to buy one with coins, I have to spend much of my online time doing missions and bounties I might not want to do at that point. I still have my own things going on, despite having played for almost 4 years. I don't need hand-holding and by-the-nose-leading to make the game artificially interesting for me. When I log on, I don't want someone telling me what random thing to do next. I log on to do what I want to do, what interests me at the time. Right now, that's playing my mesmer through Eye of the North. After that, it'll be Factions and Prophecies. I don't want to spend my time doing random bits of content for no particular reason other than to score a measly amount of Z-coins so I can buy a bag. Especially if it's something I'll have to do dozens of times. That's not how I want to spend my rather limited playing time.

Little story here. When Hard Mode came out about two years ago I was a relatively new member of my current guild.
Many of them started to work on their HM titles but I wanted to do other stuff. Oh, and my main is my mesmer and it was kinda hard to get him into the elite areas for some unknown reason. Still don't understand why... :P

Anyway, even though I did not finish my titles and elite areas as fast as some guildies I did progress on them. I also have limited play time, I have a full-time job and something that almost looks like a social life. And even when I'm playing I won't always do what I want. I just tag along with others or chat with people concerning the direction of the guild or the alliance.
This means I won't get the large pack for a while, which is even less fun since I want it for two characters (mesmer and monk).
But it's the same as with my titles, it will take me a while but I will get them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I don't see 'enabling', I see people being 'forced' into doing something for no other reason than a reward they can't get in any other way. Playing with guildies is something I've always done anyway, and ironically, I'm not anymore. Because I'm playing my mesmer while they're dancing to the Zaishen tune. No one talks about anything else than the zaishen quests anymore in guild chat. Disgusting.

My guild has a small core group of active players.
When we feel like it we tag along for those quests, else we just arrange something else. Because most of my guildies have the same kind of mindset, they will get their stuff at some point, doesn't have to be today.
At this moment many people are on the zaishen frenzy. Things will settle down at some point. Then it's just more of the same and teaming will be easier again. But perhaps my luck is that many of my guildies are adults, the son of two of my officers is also with us and all he seems to think of is zoins and piles of gold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great they made something for bored players. It's just a damn shame they tied the acquisition of equipment packs into it the way they did. It completely precludes normal play.
Grind or no grind, I don't care. What if a player just wants to play through the game, which is the most basically casual thing to do? Playing different quests and missions all the way, but no bag for you!

You know how many times I complained about A-net not doing enough to facilitate regular gameplay? From that perspective heroes were a godsend blessing just because it was easy to set up a decent team with only two players. No more problem with empty outposts like it was before NF. No more searching for players in main towns to do some mission like Eternal or Gyala, because the storyline divided the population.

Or, how about me wanting some nice green weapon ages ago.
Oh, don't think it has a reasonable price (100k+ easily). If you want it just farm it or farm the cash. That's not what I made up, it was the communities reaction. But I want to play the storyline??? Well, sorry, no green for you then!

Things didn't change, making choices enables one option and disables another.
You want to play things your way? No problem, the price is that it will take a while for you to get the super-bag.

However, just like the greens there is a nice thing here.
While you play you get more cash. And while you play more and more people are getting their bags. They will be on the market in a couple of weeks.
First they will be expensive but in time prices will drop. Question, are you willing to wait or is having one NOW, this moment, the most important thing there is?

@Gun,
I partly agree with you that the pack should not be linked to zoins.
When it would be restricted to customised equipment I would not have any problem with it being completely free.
However, the way it's now, it's just additional storage. And then it's just a trade-off in time/money versus value. How much effort are 5 extra equipment slots worth?

What I'd like to see though is something others already proposed. A way to upgrade a pack to a better one. Even if it's with zoins. So when you have the 15 pack and want the 20 you just pay the difference (and perhaps a small 'penalty' for usage). That way getting a smaller one isn't a waste of zoins. Now it seems just all or nothing and that's not really helping.

But don't tie this to achievement. I've done my share of play and got my statues, titles and stuff and I know it's all vanity.
All those things in inventory, all the armor on my characters, the characters themself. Pixels on the screen, bits in a huge database. Nothing more.
The only reason those have some value is because I have some nice memories attached to them. But it's like a medal, it only has value because of the memories, not because of the value of the metal.

MithranArkanere · May 01, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31

PvP-only characters have the right to get the bags too. And ZCoins should be that one way.
They get more coins in the only missions they can make for something!

So all that's left is:

- Change the separate bags into upgradable bags. Each bag would be acquired by adding a rune to the one that 5 slots smaller, and by doing so they become the actual bag. So already existing items and their icons are kept.
* 5 slots -> Minor Containment Rune -> 10 slots.
* 10 slots -> Containment Rune -> 15 slots.
* 15 slots -> Mayor Containment Rune -> 20 slots.

- Add alternate ways for PvE characters to get them such as:
* Drops from chests in HM. The harder to get the to the chest, the bigger may be the bag. Heavy bags would drop only in Elite areas end-chests.
* Drops from bosses in HM. Likewise, Heavy bags would drop only from elite bosses in HM, and those would likely have chests instead drops, so they won't actually drop them.
* End-credits collectors. At least the 10-slot bag for 2 or 3 trophies.
* Allegiance collectors (Quest reward trophies). At least the 5-slot bag in the 5 trophies collector, or even a new one in a 10-trophy collector.
* Crafting with rare materials and gold.
Etc.

Owik Gall · May 01, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Ask around to buy a Heavy Equip Pack. Though I doubt you'll find any sellers.

JASON626 · May 01, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

Ask around to buy a Heavy Equip Pack. Though I doubt you'll find any sellers.

the small equipment pack is Customized to characters. I don't know if the others are too.

But this getting a zpack is getting old fast doing quests. if people do quests everyday on one character it'll take months just to get one 20 pack. And if u do it on all characters it becomes grind. I hate the eotn PvE quests for pve skills but zquests are geting even worse. Zquest pay off is terrible especially pve rewards.

if your like me and have 10 pve characters pvp rdy you have limited storage as it is so zpacks are great but getting them is just horrid. I was pretty much done with pve mission from boardom now i have to do some for several months just to get zpacks. Extra balth faction is the only good thing about the rewards. i already limited myself to 15 minute or less quests anything over is a waste of time.

Gforce · May 01, 2009, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

Ask around to buy a Heavy Equip Pack. Though I doubt you'll find any sellers.

I sold one today and will sell another one in a week or so. Dont think there are many people who can get them that fast though (I am doing the PvP quests)...

Imaginos · May 01, 2009, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASON626

the small equipment pack is Customized to characters. I don't know if the others are too.

But this getting a zpack is getting old fast doing quests. if people do quests everyday on one character it'll take months just to get one 20 pack. And if u do it on all characters it becomes grind. I hate the eotn PvE quests for pve skills but zquests are geting even worse. Zquest pay off is terrible especially pve rewards.

if your like me and have 10 pve characters pvp rdy you have limited storage as it is so zpacks are great but getting them is just horrid. I was pretty much done with pve mission from boardom now i have to do some for several months just to get zpacks. Extra balth faction is the only good thing about the rewards. i already limited myself to 15 minute or less quests anything over is a waste of time.

Small correction. The small packs are not customized to the person buying them...at least the ones you pay 2p 500g for. I just logged in a character and emptied the pack, put it in storage, and put it on another character just fine.

jray14 · May 01, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gforce

I sold one today and will sell another one in a week or so. Dont think there are many people who can get them that fast though (I am doing the PvP quests)...

Wow... so if you don't mind my asking, what kind of price? That is, if it can fit in the post buffer size, lol.