Curse

Kerwyn Nasilan · Apr 28, 2009, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Just do them once a day, dont repeat them, and enjoy the parts of the game you can now find groups for, enjoy it.

lilDeath · Apr 29, 2009, 12:29 AM // 00:29

I do believe it is a grind if you have to spend weeks earning zcoins (no matter what you have to do to get it) for something as trivial as an e-pack. This can take several hours each day over several weeks, across several characters.
You cannot miss a day, because then you get behind, so to speak.

I have 15 chars. I collect weapons, dyes, materials (rare / normal), inscriptions, weapon upgrades, mini pets, festival items, etc. With all this I am running very tight on space. I have been for years now. That is why I have 4 mules already.
I was very excited to hear they will be doing something about the storage issues and especially looked forward to the e-packs. My warrior seriously needs it. And my Necro. And my Sin. (You get the idea).
From my list above you can see I barely have any armors, since I never had space for them.

Now, it appears I still have a problem in that I cannot get the 20-slot bags in a reasonable amount of time, since the value / cost scale of the 15 and 20 slot e-packs are completely disparate with the rest of the bags (5 and 10).
Pay 3 times more (2500-7500), for 5 slots (15-20)? Or, in reverse, you can buy 3x 15 slot packs for the price of one 20 slot bag?
That is not logical nor does it make business or economical sense.

I am a hardcore player and even this is pushing it for me. I don't see why a 20-slot pack caters specifically for hardcore players anyway. Casual players are bound to want the bigger bag as well. An why not? There is no e-peen attached to the packs? Why cannot anyone get size they want? That's how I see it.

I don't have a problem with the zquests or the rewards.
I have a problem with the cost / scale of the 15 and 20 slot e-packs. No one can tell me it looks correct for them. It simply doesn't. It's a freaking bag ffs. Why is is costing so much in time-value to get the required zcoins?

/sigh

byteme! · Apr 29, 2009, 12:36 AM // 00:36

OR.....

Anet can scrap the whole 20 slot idea altogether and just give everyone access to 5 slot bags only. Then this stupid thread won't exist. Kinda like Anet giving you all the finger for being so anal all the time.

Now that's something you can QQ about.

There isn't a single person in the entire game who NEEDS 20 slots. They WANT 20 slots. Don't mistaken what you "need" with what you actually "want". We all were happily playing despite our lack of storage before this update and we'll be fine after this update. Whether you manage to get 20 slots or 5 won't mean a damn thing.

There are quite a few people over the last few days QQ'ing about some sort of grind. Some of you (not all) have over 1000 hours of play time and you're worried about grind? GTFO. Besides there isn't any grind with the Zoins since you're always doing something different.

Ate of DK · Apr 29, 2009, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Who cares about Extra storage!?
Why do I need a Menagerie if I never use pets on my GWAMM (Ranger)!?
The fireworks are irritating...
Epic fail with no balance updates!

Anything good?

We can have PARTY ITEMS!

Improvavel · Apr 29, 2009, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

- Each character has its own Equipment bag slot.

- Features to be used by oneself must be available as soon as possible (storage, skills, basic level 20 equipment, NPCs, kits...). Features to be shown are the ones that can wait (titles, skins, tonics, prestige stuff, alternative locations for those NPCs (Guild Hall), etc).

You don't usually get a everlasting tonic to use it in solitude in Maguuma Stade Polish-1 (I have NEVER, EVER seen anyone there, XD) but to use when someone can see you transform. But when you get a bag, is to put things inside, not to show off. You can't show off a bag unless you go around opening trade panels with everyone.

Did you read the post to which I was answering?

Dante asked how much time was there available to get the bags before the zaishen quests disappear.

They won't disappear. Hence unlimited time to get them. You can go on holidays for a month and then come back. That was the purpose of my comment.

So, although I wasn't making any considerations about the bags, Yes, I think the bags are too grindy.

Personally I would have used a rune system. You would buy the 5 slot like now. Then you wanted to upgrade to the 10 slot bag you paid 1 GZC for a rune and bam - Light equipment bag. Then you paid 4 GZC for a rune to transform your bag form Light to Large. Finally you would buy a 10GZC rune to transform it in Heavy bag.

The Heavy bag would cost the same 15 GZC but it could be upgraded in a much more enjoyable way. You could farm 15GZC and get 3 large bags and then go farm the needed 30 GZC to get those 3 large into heavy bags WHILE enjoying the extra 15 slots in each of your characters.

The current system makes all the intermediate bags go to waste when you finally get the final bag.

FengShuiDove · Apr 29, 2009, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Honestly, 10 Slots, another Bag with a Rune of Holding, only 1 GZC. That's entirely fair, and probably what I'll do for 6/10 of my characters. The other 4 will get 20s or 15s.

The 10 is nice though. 20 is more than most of us expected per character anyway, and far more than most of our characters will need.

gmonster2 · Apr 29, 2009, 02:15 AM // 02:15

You can swap equipment packs into storage and to other characters, so i bought a 10 slot from the first few days of the quests.

This i can use now on my 600 monk and later when i get the twenty that 10 slotter can go onto another character. Yeah the 20 slots for every character is a grind but u are not forced to do it , maybe one 20 and a few 5 slots its all good.

One thing is when u hit f9 which is handy to bring up all your bags to move stuff around the equip pack isnt shown this would have been nice..

Pack has to be empty to de-equip it and then move it into storage..

Dee Cazo · Apr 29, 2009, 02:50 AM // 02:50

you meet new people and people who found themselves bored of guild wars can hop on everyday for a quick mission and then wait for tomorrows

Amon Warrior · Apr 29, 2009, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerwyn Nasilan

Just do them once a day, dont repeat them, and enjoy the parts of the game you can now find groups for, enjoy it.

Now, I am glad of the additions that were finally implemented after a long time. We'll possibly just see any new major changes by the time of the 5th anniversary, with GW2 IMO.

Being glad with the additions, does not mean that there shouldn't be adjustments with the acquisitions of the new bags. Why?

1) You have to grind to acquire them. Not because of the Zaishen quests per se (they are different after all, and a good opportunity for PVP), but because of how much zcoins we have to get in order to acquire different storage capacities.

2) Storage is important for any player. If the packs are here, might as well take advantage of them, for the same reasons as we have the backpack, belt pouch and the 2 bags. We all upgrade the bags to a maximum of 10 slots and don't just leave them in their original storage size. Why wouldn't the players be looking for the same goal with the e-packs?

3) The equipment packs should be upgradable. What a waste of zcoins this current process is. At least we could eventually be able to upgrade a pack from the minimum of 5 to it's maximum of 20, given enough time. Being upgradable would be adding an element of FUN, which I believe the opposite to be happening at the moment, especially for casual players...

4) It's not only one character that could use the packs. So, the zcoins are account wide. That's good. But who wants one pack for just one character? Preferably, I would like to have it for all of my characters and eventually get to the maximum size. It's a rather discouraging process what we have right now.

5) Bags are bags. Why make such a big deal over useful storage items? Please make them upgradable instead of being in different sizes. Make them also less taxing to acquire.

Thank you.

drunknzelda · Apr 29, 2009, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Try PvP-ing, or is that too hard :/
I get hundreds of coins from doing every PvP challenge, it's a walk in the park. If you only rely on killing Molotov and stuff then you're in trouble yes ^^

Quote:

The current system makes all the intermediate bags go to waste when you finally get the final bag.

That is just total nonsense, you can swap that bag onto another character, it's not like it's customized for 1 character. Do your homework =p

zwei2stein · Apr 29, 2009, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amon Warrior

3) The equipment packs should be upgradable. What a waste of zcoins this current process is. At least we could eventually be able to upgrade a pack from the minimum of 5 to it's maximum of 20, given enough time. Being upgradable would be adding an element of FUN, which I believe the opposite to be happening at the moment, especially for casual players...

4) It's not only one character that could use the packs. So, the zcoins are account wide. That's good. But who wants one pack for just one character? Preferably, I would like to have it for all of my characters and eventually get to the maximum size. It's a rather discouraging process what we have right now.

This is what i would sign under. Really, this is solution to "grind".

eing able to upgrade equipment bag ads quite alot of flexibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunknzelda

That is just total nonsense, you can swap that bag onto another character, it's not like it's customized for 1 character. Do your homework =p

And you do yours

If you want 20 slot bag on your primary character, would you really "waste" 1 gold zoin on bag that your secondary will use? That is one zoin setback for your 20 bag.

Would you really waste 5 gold zoins on 15 slot bag to stick on poor char with about 5 weapons that you will not even play?

You want storage on main character and don't care about others. 15 zoins without inbetween steps or 21 zoins with inbetween steps. Pick one.

Not to mention that you will eventually run out of characters to assign small packs and then they will be real waste even for you. What then, sell em to players?

Smaller packs are quite a suboptimal choice if you are going to go for 20 slot one.

the_jos · Apr 29, 2009, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Stupid discussion.
When you think 20 slots takes too much time to get, get a 'cheaper' one.

But, I have a far more simple solution.
Make the bags to hold customised equipment only.
Because that's why they were invented, because the gear of people became too much, specially several armor sets for HoM. And possibly the weapons.
I doubt many players who have a limited amount of play suffer from too much armor and customised weapons in their current inventory.
I can think of one, maybe two characters which would benefit from the full bag if it was for customised equipment ony. And one on my second account. That's all.

With the current implementation the bags are just additional storage which leads to this kind of complaining.

However, in time the bags will probably get on the market anyway.
And you can farm your butt of to get one.
So the real problem isn't the hundreds of hours, it's more that most of us can't play hundreds of hours in the time the upgrade has been in place.
Or the next couple of weeks/months.

So just wait a couple of weeks and buy yourself a bag at high price.
Or wait some longer and get it for less high price.
Or just play and get the big bag in a couple of months. It's not like the world is ending because you only have a 5 slot bag instead of a 20 slot one.....

cataphract · Apr 29, 2009, 07:38 AM // 07:38

I don't consider this as grind although I don't have much play time over the week. The 20 slot bag would be nice, but I'd rather have several 15 slot ones. Probably will, in time.

pumpkin pie · Apr 29, 2009, 07:39 AM // 07:39

told you this is a ploy to make you play GW so that you will not stray until GW2 comes out :P~

fb2000 · Apr 29, 2009, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

tl:dr
Casual players should not have access to everything hardcore players can get, without doing any work.
The additional storage does not offer MASSIVE amounts of additional storage and is therefore not a necesscity anyway.

Unfortunately Anet is pressed by the whining masses who dont get that concept.. Everything has been watered down to oblivion..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enon

Actually, it does. The bag allows you to take more weapons/armors, which might just be usefull. For example, you could use all the shields with the different +10 vs inscriptions. You could switch headpieces and sets when casting a Healing Prayer spell and switch back when you cast a Protection Prayer spell.

So yes, it does allow you to be better.

Dunno, both my monk and my warrior have pretty much full gear in their inventories and there is still enough room left to have the dumb tomes, as well as plenty of useless items.
I guess if you want one of each shield skin for example....

Feathermoore Rep · Apr 29, 2009, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Buy the 10-slot bag for one Gold Z-coin on all your characters, and shut the hell up for a month or two. With the way some people i know buy armor for their characters, yes some people will easily fill up the 20-slot bag and still not be happy. But I mean come on, it takes just 1-2 sets of daily z-quests in order to get the 500 copper z-coins to make the 10-slot bag. And they usually don't take longer than 3 hours to do them all. Some dungeons and pvp areas excluded, but 3 hours is about what it took today.

But if you wanna know why its gonna take so long to get the 20-slot bag. Just look at the rewards. THEY BLOW. Seriously. Besides the 20-slot bag, the only other things someone might even consider are the z-key, lockpick, or a flame in case they really need the quick 1k balth or imho i think the perfect salvage kit is a good deal a small 3 silver coins. All of tomes can be bought the money and drops you sell while doing the z-quests. All the scrolls can be obtained easier than the z-coins, and the everlasting crate of fireworks? Other than for re-sale, e-peen, or some obsession with fireworks, why would you ever spend 50 gold coins on it???? Esp since it won't give you party points.

Its content clearly designed to keep you playing for a few more months. Thats why the scale for the equip-packs triple with each increase in slots. Otherwise, people would grind out all the bags they need in a few weeks, and flood the market with them for people to lazy to play. Then other than the casual gamer who will get the added bonus from the z-quest ,and the pvp'ers looking for even more rewards then they already get, no one would use the quests.

So be happy you can get 5-slots for a simple 2.5k and 10-slots for a day or two of playing. Those are pretty much free. If you want more, then obviously you'll play to earn them. Stop bitcchin cuz I can tell you right now they arent gonna change the scaling.

M1h4iL · Apr 29, 2009, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amon Warrior

The equipment packs are a nice, useful addition. The problem is the crazy amount of time that you'd have to go through just to get a maximum of 20 slots for armor and weapons.

It is simply not possible for me to spend so much time grinding over this. Whatever happened to skill over grinding? That was one of the reasons I originally started to play Guild Wars. Going after titles and such is indeed optional, but to be able to acquire a useful extra bag you have to grind so much?

I hope to see the equipment packs available in a less taxing way 'cause right now it's really not possible to get them unless you have a lot of time in your hands and a taste for grind...

It's so that you get put off from grinding for hours and just buy it from the store instead. If it was made easy then no one would buy it for real world money.

Gli · Apr 29, 2009, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by M1h4iL

It's so that you get put off from grinding for hours and just buy it from the store instead. If it was made easy then no one would buy it for real world money.

What are you talking about? They're not available from the store.

Stolen Souls · Apr 29, 2009, 11:25 AM // 11:25

I dunno if I really see it as grind. I agree that the better bags are overpriced, and the rest of the rewards blow (I'll trade commendations if I need a Scroll of Hero's Insight, tyvm). But how is it grind if you are not doing the same thing over and over to achieve a goal? Doing the same dungeon run over and over, or doing FFF back in the day to max a title, THAT was grind. Here you are doing all different missions, and killing different bosses, doing different PvP stuff. When I play I usually just do random crap anyway...now I am getting rewarded for it. You can do it at your own pace...there's no time limit until the bags vanish as a reward, and you can always use a smaller bag until you can get the big one. So I guess I fail to see how some see it as grind. *shrugs*

R.Shayne · Apr 29, 2009, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by M1h4iL

It's so that you get put off from grinding for hours and just buy it from the store instead. If it was made easy then no one would buy it for real world money.

I think you are talking about the Xunlai Storage but this does make me think of one problem. Casual players don't grind (since you must repeat the z-quest over and over it is grind), casual players will instead buy the bags from other players and get that gold from gold sellers.

Gold sellers get the gold from account theft, scamming other players, etc... and gold buyers never seem able to make this connection, thus feel no guilt about buying gold for real world money.

I am sorry but as much as it will hurt some of the hard-core e-pen I just say give it to them with a reasonable amount of game play.