Curse

Gli · Jun 12, 2009, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

There are different kinds of players indeed - which is part of the reason why GW2 needs to retain click-to-move.

I absolutely agree. I was arguing against a reason to scrap it. I use click-to-move a lot, and WASD as well, whatever suits me at any given time. I can't imagine spending any serious amount of time using WASD exclusively.

Jarus · Jun 12, 2009, 07:45 AM // 07:45

I would also like to argue against removing click-to-move. If anything, the way the system works now is absolutely fine.

Personally, I am quite comfortable using both. In fact, I often switch between them: Click-to-move for general movement, then WASD if I need to be able to rotate the camera while moving to gain some situational awareness.

I don't give a toss being unable to jump, tbh. Allowing people to jump off of cliffs doesn't actually require the ability to jump up -- they simply need to walk off the edge.

Bryant Again · Jun 12, 2009, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I absolutely agree. I was arguing against a reason to scrap it. I use click-to-move a lot, and WASD as well, whatever suits me at any given time. I can't imagine spending any serious amount of time using WASD exclusively.

I only use WASD when I'm roaming about away from baddies in PvE/P. But when things get heated I'm usually moving about by clicking on the enemy, or if I'm trying to get away from something.

To emphasize: I have A and D set to strafe left and right.

Faer · Jun 12, 2009, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I always used the mouse to move and figured that I could never ever do something else.
Enter WoW trial.
After a few hours - I completely forgot about click to move.

Easy to do when you aren't rubberbanding back and forth every few moments, isn't it? ;D

Even in WoW though, mouse movement has clear advantages over WASD. Keyboard turners are easy kills.

Feminist Terrorist · Jun 12, 2009, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antares Ascending

.

Just wondering what folks think of the mouse 'click to move' is something people like and prefer to..? wasd?

The control system is going to be significantly changed (in particular mouse movement in the form "click to move" will be removed from the game

Taken form this link http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2

For me, that might be a deal breaker. I hope they reconsider.

Yang Whirlwind · Jun 12, 2009, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Different games have different controls:
it feels really strange for a day,
uncomfortable for 2-3 days
- and then you never think about it again.

Bryant Again · Jun 12, 2009, 09:44 AM // 09:44

It's less about getting used to a new control scheme and more the question of why, especially considering how comfortable GW feels already. It also makes you wonder what else has changed, and that's where things become a bit worrying. Hopefully by saying "no more click-to-move" isn't exempt from "click-to-follow".

Gli · Jun 12, 2009, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yang Whirlwind

Different games have different controls:
it feels really strange for a day,
uncomfortable for 2-3 days
- and then you never think about it again.

This isn't an absolute truth. Some people have genuine physical problems getting in the way of certain control schemes. Offering multiple options gets around that.

Myself, I don't have any real issues like that, but there are times I spend most of my workdays pounding away at a keyboard. When I get home after that, I absolutely won't be playing a game that requires a keystroke for every last minute bit of movement.

I only tend to play mouse-driven games and have been doing so for years. This is actually a dealbreaker for me, and I know I'm not the only one.

ZenRgy · Jun 12, 2009, 10:50 AM // 10:50

No click to move = pz out pvp.

AmbientMelody · Jun 12, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Removing click-to-move would be a step backwards. I'm not going to use WASD if it will be the only option. I will simply look for another game.

SurrealFi · Jun 12, 2009, 11:43 AM // 11:43

I like click-to-move. :-/ Please make it stay!

pumpkin pie · Jun 12, 2009, 11:53 AM // 11:53

one way of moving around in game, good
two ways of moving around in game, better
many ways to move around in game,

wwwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeee!

4thVariety · Jun 12, 2009, 12:24 PM // 12:24

One click movement really works in GW because you can either go someplace or you can't. There is no middle ground. But if jumping and swimming really play a meaningful role in the traversal of the environment in GW2, then one click is not an option. You need to push "forward" and "jump" at the same time to jump over something. It would be weird to click behind the obstacle and then move the cursor to "jump" and click that at the right moment. If the player autojumps over obstacles then why put them there in the first place?

One click might be convenient, but it does not allow for that much complexity in the controls. Mastering the controls is an important aspect of many games. Simply left-clicking stuff for 100h is not that entertaining.

Aljasha · Jun 12, 2009, 12:31 PM // 12:31

well, you should make sure that you point on the right spot before you click. there is simply no reason to remove CTM with the proper pathfinding ai. of course, if you, as a developer, give a damn on ai, pathfinding is the devil!

Gli · Jun 12, 2009, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thVariety

One click movement really works in GW because you can either go someplace or you can't.

So, allow it when you click a location where you can walk to in a straightforward manner, and disallow it when you click someplace you can't because of obstacles/terrain types. Plenty of games I played do this. I don't see the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thVariety

There is no middle ground.

Yes, there is, as I just explained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thVariety

But if jumping and swimming really play a meaningful role in the traversal of the environment in GW2, then one click is not an option.

If they do play a meaningful role, I don't want the game in the first place. I've always found that the biggest advantage of not being able to jump, climb or swim in GW is that you don't have to jump, climb or swim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thVariety

One click might be convenient, but it does not allow for that much complexity in the controls. Mastering the controls is an important aspect of many games. Simply left-clicking stuff for 100h is not that entertaining.

I'm not looking for a game with complexity in controls. When it comes to controls, my credo is: simpler = better. Also, movement isn't entertaining in the first place in these kind of games, and making it a drag won't help in that regard. Economy of movement is one of the things that attracted me to GW: Maptravel and one-click movement.

To each his own I guess, but no GW2 for me if it plays like Tomb-raider or Mario World. I want to beat stuff up, not spend my time navigating the environment.

Martin Alvito · Jun 12, 2009, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Seriously, if relearning to just MOVE is that much of problem, what about rest off freaking game. You do realize that game is also different things other than just moving, right.

You're only amplifying my point. Obviously there are going to be inherent differences from game to game. There's no reason to make the transition unnecessarily difficult by adding a totally different movement system on top of all that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

In your tone, anet should scrap everything and license wow skillset, classes and game mechanics. And they'd better implement hemmoraging stacking right.

Now you're trying to put words in my mouth that aren't there. There's an obvious benefit to standardizing certain things, but this doesn't logically map onto the concept that all games should be exactly the same. Some product differentiation is critical. However, movement should not be one of the axes of differentiation. Controls need to be intuitive. If everything else is running one basic control scheme and your game runs another, that isn't intuitive.

By your reasoning, all PCs should be running MS Word or a clone all the time. This is clearly not true, but there's a clear benefit to be gained from standardizing the operating system.

@ Yang: the point is that those 2-3 days of discomfort are costly and help prevent people from picking the game back up. It unnecessarily adds to the learning curve for resuming serious play, exacerbating the player drain. Serious players come back, realize that they're going to have to relearn a ton of stuff, get frustrated and quit. Why make it harder than it has to be?

Jarus · Jun 12, 2009, 01:27 PM // 13:27

I would be seriously disappointed if they do not implement click-to-move in GW2, but I might play it anyway. On the other hand, my wife (who I think represents a decent percentage of the silent, casual Guild Wars community) would probably be very reticent to play it at all.

She's not as much of a general 'gamer' as I am, and she uses the mouse exclusively to play Guild Wars. And she plays it a lot more than I do. She's three titles away from GWAMM!

She and I both think that if Anet do go ahead and try to make GW2 -too- different from GW, then it may alienate quite a few of its fanbase.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 12, 2009, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Strange that for a game set hundreds of years in the future, they are planning on a UI hundreds of years in the past. wasd is just stupid and inept.

UI conforming to sinclair spectrum standards? No thanks.

I have to agree, wasd is a step backwards.

Joseph Leito · Jun 12, 2009, 01:36 PM // 13:36

It's actually pretty amazing that there's so much flaming and arguing in a thread about controls.

Bobby2 · Jun 12, 2009, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

No click to move = pz out pvp.

This. And I'm just getting the hang of it, too.