Curse

HawkofStorms · May 25, 2009, 03:20 PM // 15:20

I actually like Upiers suggestion about a more active goal, as the Kurzicks do have it kinda easier.
I just don't like the drama about it.

MithranArkanere · May 25, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08

AB 'balances' by changing maps.
That's just lame. In most games you use is a REAL handicap.

Just add an environment effect:

- Emperor's Intervention.
The Emperor's power affects the struggle between Luxon and Kurzick.

Every 10 matches, the wins of each side are counted, and the difference is added as Morale Bonuses of 1% to the side that lost more times, that affects all players and NPCs of that side.
0-10. 10% MB
1-9. 8% MB
2-8. 6% MB
3-7. 4% MB
4-6. 2% MB
5-5. 0% MB
The ones that lose more get an advantage, and so the sides balance themselves.

Symeon · May 25, 2009, 05:17 PM // 17:17

The main problem with FA, which has been mentioned already, is that Kurzicks can sit around in their base and still win (albeit slowly). Running amber is also too easy, and people often use this to repair gates as soon as they've been breached.

A few ideas for fixing FA:
1) Increase the number/strength of NPCs guarding the Amber Mines. Also increase the amount each amber chunk adds to the weapon percentage. This encourages the Kurzicks to be more active.
2) Once the Luxons have captured both Orange or Purple gates, a group of NPCs with anti-running skills (e.g. water elementalists, rangers with Pin Down) should spawn between the two gates. This makes it harder for Kurzicks to run amber while their main base is under assault.
3) Remove the gate-repairing NPCs. Killing the forward Luxon NPCs mentioned above should start a timer after which first the inner, then the outer gate on that side is repaired.
4) Increase Turtle armor/health.
5) Put a Luxon Monk in each turtle/warrior team.

wetwillyhip · May 25, 2009, 05:47 PM // 17:47

I like it cause i'm Kurzick

Oh and you know what should really be removed from Zquests.... ALLIANCE BATTLES. I am so sick and tired of 100's of newbies coming to AB without knowing jack and ruining it for the experienced players who want to win, just b/c they want to get their zquests completed. My gosh this weekend was the freakin worst AB ever for the kurzick side (not to mention the x2 bonus event).

We were on Grenz Frontier, OUR advantage map and we lost 90% of the time all 3 days of the weekend. This was absurd... I'm fine with newbies learning new PVP but seriously go back to PVE when you don't know the difference between capping shrines makes us win and mobbing and letting the luxons catch up 400 pts in the last 100 pt stretch, seriously we had retards not figuring it out after losing so many freakin times. No one talked in team chat whenever other kurzick experienced players were grilling the noobs for being stupid. You know why they didn't talk back, b/c they didn't know what to say, it was true.

diehuman · May 25, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49

that was just bullshit
it is all about player quality, not the map
if u cant win u should go monking / caster instead of
meleeing there or comes up in any profession with roj

Shadow Slave · May 25, 2009, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Ahhh good - another poster who fully understands the purpose of this thread.

Thank you for your contribution.

Nowait....gtfo.

HawkofStorms · May 25, 2009, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

Ahhh good - another poster who fully understands the purpose of this thread.

Thank you for your contribution.

Nowait....gtfo.

Maybe you should stop trolling ever person who disagrees with you.

Like I said in my post, I actually like Upiers idea. But drama and crap like this makes me hesitant to want to discuss anything with you.

Bryant Again · May 25, 2009, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

FA is all about the randomness of parties. If you are lucky you get a balanced team if not you get screwed.

Largely, this is true. But it doesn't help that Kurzick has less of a chance "getting screwed" than Lux.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

I just don't like the drama about it.

Eh, welcome to the Guru?

Giga_Gaia · May 26, 2009, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

That's "luck" you can control.
Once Kurzicks start playing to win - they'll realize that rolling a monk is the best option. And once every guy in the outpost rolls a monk and enters with that guy - each and every person does everything in their power to have the best team they can. The only luck you need to rely on is that you won't be paired up with morons.
Whereas as a Luxon there is no ONE build to rule them all. You need a pretty balanced party. In a random arena.
What that means you need to hope that Lady Luck smiles down at you and decides to pair you with some monks, some mesmers, some necros, ...
And you still need to rely on the luck of not getting paired up with morons.

Now - Kurzick teams without a monk can still win. But that also means that they have given the Luxons a fair chance. Let's be honest though, that's kinda dumb. I mean, if you are trying to win - you use the best option possible. And if you aren't using that chance - that means you are bad. And why should bad teams win?

You still missed my point about the whole monk thing. You need to get it through your head that seeing more than one monk on every team is actually a pretty rare sight. But since you can't accept that and instead only look at things from your biased point of view, there is little validity in your theory crafting and your "8 man kurzick monks". Like someone else said, if you're going to assume the ideal conditions for kurzicks, you must also do the same on luxons.

I've played the arena on both sides, and it was just so much easier to win on luxon. Again, RoJ's, MM's, EoE + turtles = win. Using balanced team on luxon side = not enough damage = not enough pressure = lose. Luxons need offense. But how many times have you actually seen luxon teams use those builds correctly? I'm sorry to say, but the problem lies in how bad the luxon players are. I've seen your history of posts about FA, and all of them were about the same thing: "8 man monks can do this and that". Makes me wonder if you even play the arena at all. Your last sentence is exactly what I'm trying to say: why should the luxons win or even deserve a winning chance when so many of them are so terrible? Anet can keep buffing luxons and nerfing kurzicks all they want, but the good players will still find ways around it while the bad players will continue to fail.

Arkantos · May 26, 2009, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

That aside, the maps are not broken, it is the way Arena Net has intended it to be. one side luxon has more advantage the other side kurziks has more advantage. Stop arguing about the maps. You loose some you win some.

I hope you aren't trying to say JQ gives Luxons an advantage.

Giga_Gaia · May 26, 2009, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symeon

The main problem with FA, which has been mentioned already, is that Kurzicks can sit around in their base and still win (albeit slowly). Running amber is also too easy, and people often use this to repair gates as soon as they've been breached.

A few ideas for fixing FA:
1) Increase the number/strength of NPCs guarding the Amber Mines. Also increase the amount each amber chunk adds to the weapon percentage. This encourages the Kurzicks to be more active.
2) Once the Luxons have captured both Orange or Purple gates, a group of NPCs with anti-running skills (e.g. water elementalists, rangers with Pin Down) should spawn between the two gates. This makes it harder for Kurzicks to run amber while their main base is under assault.
3) Remove the gate-repairing NPCs. Killing the forward Luxon NPCs mentioned above should start a timer after which first the inner, then the outer gate on that side is repaired.
4) Increase Turtle armor/health.
5) Put a Luxon Monk in each turtle/warrior team.

I like your ideas. Let's buff the luxons even more! Now we can just roll our heads over our keyboards and win no problem! How about we make the turtles shoot laser beams instead of those puny siege attacks? Now instead of spiking anyone inside green with less than 90% health when camping outside it, it's an insta-spike of death at 100% health!

Seriously, if changes are made to FA, it needs to be a MAJOR overhaul, not just "buff this, nerf that" kind of thing. This only introduces more unknowns/variables/imbalances than fixing anything. Take the timer change for example: now kurzicks can earn faction at a more reasonable rate like luxons, but it (supposedly) gave luxons a much harder time winning there. Then the turtles were buffed to hell and back, and now it's too easy to win as a luxon there, provided you don't suck. Yes one good player with a good build *cough* RoJ monk *cough* CAN make a big difference.

pumpkin pie · May 26, 2009, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I hope you aren't trying to say JQ gives Luxons an advantage.

I actually think JQ has balance map, and cannot fingure out why players still complain that the points have differnt distance. I think the only way to find out is printing out the map fold them in half and see if the points meet. I am guessing they do. but I didn't want to say that cos then players QQ more and attack me

MithranArkanere · May 26, 2009, 03:46 AM // 03:46

It's nothing about distance. It's heights, spawn points and terrain blockings.

You can't really see it easily, but a Juggernaut can get faster to their base by going around corners easier, and you can go past some nearby luxon-capture posts without aggroing them easier than with kurzick.

I've played in both sides, and It's easier to cap things near the kurzick base without being touched by archers. Some places that cover you near the kurzick side like rocks, are trespassed by arrows near the luxon side. While near the kurzick side an archer on top of a cliff can't hit me, on some spots near the luxon side all what the archer has to o is get a bit closer to the edge, and arrows hit.

All those little and almost not noticeable differences add up and mix into more damage over time to luxon side creatures.

pumpkin pie · May 26, 2009, 03:51 AM // 03:51

i've played both side too and win most the time. you've got to know the map is all, there are places where you can cast spells on luxon's archer players and they can't touch you as well. sometime its not staying alive, you get kill to get behind the archer players by going thru the portals and comes right behind them where they are doing the snipering. try all the teleport points, and know where they land you, and where they lead to, you'll be surprise. Hug the walls if your a caster and you find an annoying archer. they will not be able to get you. In some cases, you can kill the NPCs without having to go to where they are, from across the raised platform, cast and step back.

reaper with no name · May 26, 2009, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I really don't see how that's possible. Out of the ~25 FA matches I've done at all times of the day in the past 2 weeks, I'm fairly sure I can count the number of losses on one hand.

If a monk is watching the juggernaut, it won't go down easily, and will actually do damage. The turtles are very easy to take down before they breach the two initial breaks unless a monk is watching (which I've seen maybe 2 times). The luxons get to the last gate all the time, and they rarely win. You don't need a crapload of healers, you need one or two decent ones.

Either I'm a frickin amazing player, you play with the worst players and against the best, or you're really over exaggerating.

I'm not exaggerating. That's why I know people are exaggerating about any imbalances that might exist. Even if I'm constantly playing with the worst against the best, that still wouldn't account for my luck with that mission.

Seriously, monks can be countered. There are respawn times. Kill the monks if they are giving you that much trouble, and then spike Gunther. It can't be any harder than killing the Juggernaut (which always happens).

pumpkin pie · May 26, 2009, 06:20 AM // 06:20

sometimes players are so predictable and stubborn that they keep using the same portal, making it possible for you to just wait there, kill them and waits for them to come right thru that same portal again and again and again lol, this is not the porblem of the map. its players not thinking while playing and the only thing on their mind is "god damn it, Anet nerf the map already" but failed to think that if they had use another portal, then I would not have the pleasure of killing them over and over and over and over, okay repeatedly.

upier · May 26, 2009, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

You still missed my point about the whole monk thing. You need to get it through your head that seeing more than one monk on every team is actually a pretty rare sight. But since you can't accept that and instead only look at things from your biased point of view, there is little validity in your theory crafting and your "8 man kurzick monks". Like someone else said, if you're going to assume the ideal conditions for kurzicks, you must also do the same on luxons.

So what you are saying is that if no-one would keep Shadowform up permanently - not because it would be impossible, but rather because they wouldn't want to - it would be balanced?
What you need to accept is that certain things NEED to be considered on a different level than what YOU observe in the game. They need to be considered on a different level that I observe in the game. For instance, my experience - 2+ monks on your average Kurzick team is VERY common. Hell, I went up against a 3 monk+a resto rit team yesterday. (And actually that battle was INSANELY fun. We had a very good Luxon team - despite their initial tries, we soon dominated the map, breaking down all gates and controlling the mines. Still, there was nothing we could do about Gunthy and his gang. They really couldn't do much about us either - I mean, when half your team is completely defensive with no damage, and those Kurzicks that did damage were a bit sucky - but that didn't matter in the slightest. Once GV was complete - we all dropped dead and the game did their job by killing us. Despite our team having more better players than theirs - the few monk monk players on their side were able to negate that. Just because monks are so powerful there. Still, after getting out - I closed GW. Sure, having fun is is sweet, but I play PvP to win. And if you know that you will be unable to win unless the opposing team allows you to win - that's not fun enough.)
What needs to be considered is how the BETTER players are going to play this map. If you are shit - you deserve to lose regardless of the side you are on. And the better Kurzick players will roll a monk. Which means that the better Luxon players need to be able to take that down.
Now ask yourself - in GW, how many monks per party are able to keep a party of 8 alive? In PvE - hell, you can do it with one. In high end PvP - you're prolly going to need 2-3. You don't need 8 monks in your team to be able to negate the damage a 8-man team throws at your way.

In theory - the Kurzick win EACH and every single battle at Aspy. Currently, the Luxons are still wining because Kurzicks are bad. As player get better and better - reality will catch up with theory. Unless of course there is a change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

I've played the arena on both sides, and it was just so much easier to win on luxon. Again, RoJ's, MM's, EoE + turtles = win. Using balanced team on luxon side = not enough damage = not enough pressure = lose. Luxons need offense. But how many times have you actually seen luxon teams use those builds correctly? I'm sorry to say, but the problem lies in how bad the luxon players are. I've seen your history of posts about FA, and all of them were about the same thing: "8 man monks can do this and that". Makes me wonder if you even play the arena at all. Your last sentence is exactly what I'm trying to say: why should the luxons win or even deserve a winning chance when so many of them are so terrible? Anet can keep buffing luxons and nerfing kurzicks all they want, but the good players will still find ways around it while the bad players will continue to fail.

Share with us how many monks did the Kurzick have on the games you won as a Luxon? Because it's my guess that the Kurzick allowed you to win.
Also - explain to me how does one get RoJ (for the Luxons reading this - be aware of the it's limitations! While it's damage will work against bad teams - it won't do anything against good teams. So against good teams - healing/prots are preferred. But against a really good team - you've lost by entering.), minions (once again for all the Luxons out there - do not run minions. The fact that GG does not know how bad they are - makes me question his/hers knowledge of GW.) and EoE (tip - if the Kurzicks are good, they will trash it. Which means, like RoJ it will only work against bad teams.) onto one guy.
If you are unable to do that - that means, as noted many times, you need to rely on luck to give you, not only a team of players that know what they are doing - the same luck you need on the Kurzick side, but also a team that complements your build. And that's in a random arena.
As a Kurzick - you do not need to rely on this luck. If the player is good - he is going to roll a monk. Which means - when it comes to the random party forming - the Luxons are ALREADY at a disadvantage. Not only do you need to get lucky by getting a good team - you also need to get the RIGHT good team. Whereas the Kurzick good team is ALWAYS the right team also!
Now insert this party into the Aspy map. And the map does not negate this advantage - it actually multiplies it.

Toxic OnyX · May 26, 2009, 09:33 AM // 09:33

lol was just in FA as a luxon

kurzicks didnt do anything but run amber and sit in the base near gunther

so we break through to gunther in about 5 mins and then the farce begins, 3 monks and a restoration rit simply sit there and negate all damage give to the gatekeepers and gunther

I reckon my win ratio is about 1/10 as luxon so agree that the map has a touch of imbalance

Deimos Zargarda · May 26, 2009, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Nothing wrong with FA, been playing at for about 2 years almost every day on both sides, lost as often as I won, sure sometime the Kurzick can simply wait at the base using their monks to win but the Luxon can therefor win the match in just 5 min., which they do very often. Anyway, most of the time the Luxons lose is because of ppl chasing Kurzicks outside the fort instead of attacking only the gates, meaning that its the players fault.

The only differences in FA and the other PvP areas are its goals, tne winning rate is the same. I actualy preffer to play on the Luxon side as the wait time to enter a battle is 30sec.-1Min..

So /notsigned for removing it from the Z-Quests.

Chocobo1 · May 26, 2009, 10:10 AM // 10:10

There is no imbalance, it keeps coming back to the quality of the players. And Luxon just happens to have more bad players than Kurzick.