Curse

Sword Hammer Axe · Jun 19, 2009, 08:48 AM // 08:48

I've noticed people think my "I am Unstoppable" "Watch Yourself" and Soldier's Stance is a tanking build. How come you think that? There's no self protection in Soldier's stance. I simply bring the two shouts because with those I can have constant IAS without any negative side effect. The armor bonus, can not be knocked down and party protection is a side bonus, not main point of my build. And if I put in Asuran Scan I can easily do 80-100 damage a hit AND my hits land 33% faster constantly :P That's really more damage tanking + I won't be a bother to all my monks because I use Primal Rage and take tons of damage :P

Yelling @ Cats · Jun 19, 2009, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

I've noticed people think my "I am Unstoppable" "Watch Yourself" and Soldier's Stance is a tanking build. How come you think that? There's no self protection in Soldier's stance. I simply bring the two shouts because with those I can have constant IAS without any negative side effect. The armor bonus, can not be knocked down and party protection is a side bonus, not main point of my build. And if I put in Asuran Scan I can easily do 80-100 damage a hit AND my hits land 33% faster constantly :P That's really more damage tanking + I won't be a bother to all my monks because I use Primal Rage and take tons of damage :P

To be honest, I can see the point in that build. I probably wouldn't kick it, depending on the rest of that build. I love "Watch Yourself!". Soldier Stance helps pump it out faster, while increasing DPS.

If the rest of the build is bad though...meh. But some Deep Wound + decent attack skills and/or interrupts would be pretty nice. Maybe even Save Yourselves because of the IAS (though that would kind of cancel out WY)

Khyr Lord of Kaoz · Jun 19, 2009, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

LOL at the people who think cookie cutter builds are necessarily MOST effective. Wrong. I have builds of my own (original builds), that are as good as most cookie cutter builds, or better.

That enough?

Or should I continue quoting where you act like you don't even know what the cookie-cutter builds are?

Sure it's enough to prove you don't know how to read. This doesn't say that my builds are better than anyone or anything, except that I have builds that are equal to or better than...

As good as means equal to. Better than, means just that. I don't say here that every single build I make is the greatest thing. I say that my builds are as good as MOST (not all by the way) cookie cutter builds. What you accused me of was...

Toting that your build is the best thing going, that everyone else is running subpar builds, and people are assholes for not accepting your obviously superior build kind of falls into the "arrogant stubbornness" category moreso than the pride category.

Now, to analyze...the best thing going...never said.

Everyone else is running subpar builds...never said.

Assholes (never used that word either), obviously superior builds (nor that)

I am complaining about people running groups who don't know much, who reject my builds, which are AS GOOD OR BETTER (not better for the record), because it's not "the flavor of the week build."

I don't know about you, but I'd say that's relevant to the topic at hand. I'd say it happens often. Or do you think anyone who runs a group somewhere is just that smart?

I have claimed to be competent and occasionally inspired. You take my confidence in my as good or better, as being better...why is that? Maybe you're just insecure. I don't know.

But the quote you gave certainly does not show in any way that I said my build was the best thing out there. Never said it, never would.

Yelling @ Cats · Jun 19, 2009, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

Show me exactly where I did that. I'm interested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

LOL at the people who think cookie cutter builds are necessarily MOST effective. Wrong. I have builds of my own (original builds), that are as good as most cookie cutter builds, or better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

But since I don't LOOK at those sites, and I create my own builds, what is your point? lmao

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

I don't know what's been around for ages, which is my point. I make my own builds, which generally means I don't research others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

If someone insists on me using a specific build, I tell them no, kick me now, or shut up. Because in the end, I'm not going to be dictated to by a guy who thinks he knows more than I do. He may and he may not. I'm guessing the latter.

Just quoting where you either contradicted your own arguments, or made yourself look like a person who is way too arrogant to be listened to. First you state that your build is equal to, or better than cookie-cutter builds, then later you profusely claim that you don't even know what the cookie-cutter builds are.

And the whole "kick me or shut up" thing is possibly the most arrogant thing I've seen in this thread. Even more so than the people who do kick you or anyone else with a bad build.

zwei2stein · Jun 19, 2009, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

I've noticed people think my "I am Unstoppable" "Watch Yourself" and Soldier's Stance is a tanking build. How come you think that? There's no self protection in Soldier's stance.

Actually, they think it because they read Soldiers Stance and thing Soldiers Defense (because, why would anyone use Soldiers Stance, right).

That makes it a much better (WY helping out party, IAU to deal with enviro effect, IAS)

But it is still wasted elite slot (nonelite IASes are good on warrior) and WY! is hardly comparable to SY!.

Not really kick-worthy in normal mode arborstone, yes.

YunSooJin · Jun 19, 2009, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

I've noticed people think my "I am Unstoppable" "Watch Yourself" and Soldier's Stance is a tanking build. How come you think that? There's no self protection in Soldier's stance. I simply bring the two shouts because with those I can have constant IAS without any negative side effect. The armor bonus, can not be knocked down and party protection is a side bonus, not main point of my build. And if I put in Asuran Scan I can easily do 80-100 damage a hit AND my hits land 33% faster constantly :P That's really more damage tanking + I won't be a bother to all my monks because I use Primal Rage and take tons of damage :P

Asuran scan sucks btw.

Yelling @ Cats · Jun 19, 2009, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

But it is still wasted elite slot (nonelite IASes are good on warrior) and WY! is hardly comparable to SY!.

Meh, I'd argue that WY is acceptable instead of SY.

Only because maintaining SY requires a pretty dedicated bar, which is too much "forcing" people to play a certain build. WY, while notably weaker, allows a much more diverse build, while still being able to keep up the global armor boost.

It's not really like a case of someone using a clearly inferior skill that is hotswappable for another. SY requires a lot more changing to be useful.

Picuso · Jun 19, 2009, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Asuran scan sucks btw.

You don't know what are you talking about.

YunSooJin · Jun 19, 2009, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picuso

You don't know what are you talking about.

I do.

it sucks.

5 second recharge? I guess you take your time killing your monsters :P

Picuso · Jun 19, 2009, 09:36 AM // 09:36

-.-

Cast before engage -> kill -> Go to next target -> Rinse and repeat.

Asura Scan is one of the most overpowered PvE Skills for Melee players.

Khyr Lord of Kaoz · Jun 19, 2009, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

Just quoting where you either contradicted your own arguments, or made yourself look like a person who is way too arrogant to be listened to. First you state that your build is equal to, or better than cookie-cutter builds, then later you profusely claim that you don't even know what the cookie-cutter builds are.

And the whole "kick me or shut up" thing is possibly the most arrogant thing I've seen in this thread. Even more so than the people who do kick you or anyone else with a bad build.

Let's take it from the top. I did say I don't reference sites that are build sites...PVX Wiki etc. I didn't say I don't talk builds with friends and guildies and I certainly never said people haven't pinged me builds they want me to use. Thus there is no inherent contradiction in not visiting those sites and knowing what a cookie cutter build is. Where did I claim I don't know what a cookie cutter is, and where is it said you have to visit specific sites to find out about them?

The kick more or shut up thing WAS actually said. However, the reason it was said, and probably why it came off so arrogantly, is what the guy who I said it to was saying to ME at the time. I respond to arrogance with annoyance and impatience. But prior to that point in the conversation...other things had been said that would probably annoy anyone. I'm sure you like judging me based on a few posts on a list when my dander is up. Good for you. Bad way to judge people.

Did you miss the part where I said I'm like an idiot savant who's good with builds. Or that I'm a pretty good player, who is occasionally inspired?

Picking selective words out of a post to prove your point is not how research should be done. Take ALL my words.

Sure, I did say what I said I said, to a guy who was giving me a really really hard time. I'm sure that's never happened to you, but it sure as hell happened to me.

Let's review the facts.

1. Though I don't frequent sites (I have occassionally gone and looked at a specific build on the advice of a guildie, but don't feel comfortable using them), I do know something about cookie cutter builds, because people in PUGS sometimes insist on them and ping them to you. Hope that makes sense.

2. I see myself as an average to above average player (as I said before, who is occassionally inspired), but I love, enjoy and pride myself on my builds. They are as good as or better than MOST of the cookie cutter builds that I've seen. Not all. Most. As I've said. Repeatedly now. I haven't seen EVERY cookie cutter build, but of the ones I've seen, my builds are as good...or better.

3. I'm actually probably coming across more arrogant in this thread than you'd find me in the game, because I'm talking about something I've run into on a number of occasions that annoys/upsets me. Surely when you're angry, you're not going to sound like you normally are.

4. I can see where you'd think I contradicted myself, but in reality, all I've done is respond to what other people said, without trying to justify myself, until people have ventured into the personal.

I've been accused of saying cookie cutter builds were sub par. I didn't say it. Iv'e been accused of saying my builds are better than anyone. I didn't say that. I've been accused of being arrogant, and the only "real" evidence of that is something from an early quote in the post (ignoring all my later posts), which did in fact quote something from an entire conversation I had. Paraphrased really, since I didn't take minutes at that time. I was responding to someone who was giving me a hard time, about a build that was perfectly fine, but he didn't want to hear that. I've subsequently used it with quite a few other people who DID find it perfectly fine.

The bottom line is, you're judging me, on a few posts, in a forum that is fairly emotional, based on experienced that you probably have had yourself.

I've stopped pugging because everyone acts like an expert, whether or not they are. Some of those people are surely experts and some aren't. Some know more than me, and some don't. But I've been treated fairly badly because I refuse to use a cookie cutter build by PUGs. That, my friend, is a fact. That annoys me. Hence my ire (and probably seeming arrogance).

Yet, I ask, would a truly arrogant person compare himself to an idiot savant, or say he's an average player who's occassoinally inspired?

The facts don't really all add up, when you look at EVERYTHING I've said.

YunSooJin · Jun 19, 2009, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picuso

-.-

Cast before engage -> kill -> Go to next target -> Rinse and repeat.

Asura Scan is one of the most overpowered PvE Skills for Melee players.

No, you mean

"cast before engage" -> kill -> next target dies before asuran scan recharges -> next target dies before asuran scan recharges -> all the other targets around you are nearly dead and therefore asuran scan is useless

if asuran scan was +71% damage buff on yourself and not a spell you cast on an enemy, I'd say it was good.

as it is now, it sucks.

Abedeus · Jun 19, 2009, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

No, you mean

"cast before engage" -> kill -> next target dies before asuran scan recharges -> next target dies before asuran scan recharges -> all the other targets around you are nearly dead and therefore asuran scan is useless

if asuran scan was +71% damage buff on yourself and not a spell you cast on an enemy, I'd say it was good.

as it is now, it sucks.

Play on Hard Mode. Use it against bosses and level 28 enemies. Kthxbye.

According to you, every single spell/skill that has more than 5 seconds recharge is useless.

As for OP - you want to play with a group, run what they want. You want to play what you want, play with heroes and henches.

That's why it's a team. If one member of the team is hurting it, then reject that member.

YunSooJin · Jun 19, 2009, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Play on Hard Mode. Use it against bosses and level 28 enemies. Kthxbye.

According to you, every single spell/skill that has more than 5 seconds recharge is useless.

As for OP - you want to play with a group, run what they want. You want to play what you want, play with heroes and henches.

That's why it's a team. If one member of the team is hurting it, then reject that member.

I am talking about hardmode. lols
Do you know what a straw man is? Because you sure know how to set one up!

Sword Hammer Axe · Jun 19, 2009, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

To be honest, I can see the point in that build. I probably wouldn't kick it, depending on the rest of that build. I love "Watch Yourself!". Soldier Stance helps pump it out faster, while increasing DPS.

If the rest of the build is bad though...meh. But some Deep Wound + decent attack skills and/or interrupts would be pretty nice. Maybe even Save Yourselves because of the IAS (though that would kind of cancel out WY)

Yeah SY is a good skill, but it doesn't affect yourself so it won't work with Soldiers defense unless another party member brings it. Can still bring it though just for the extra party defense :P

zwei2stein · Jun 19, 2009, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I am talking about hardmode. lols

Video of you killing stuff the way you present it npkc?

HuntMaster Avatar · Jun 19, 2009, 01:39 PM // 13:39

I'll say this. After 40 months of playing my own builds with a little research here and there, working my ass off for very little gold/items and beating games through sheer determination, I am more than willing to use gimmicky, cookie cutter, cheesy pie builds if it makes me money and allows me to FINALLY get the armor/titles/vaniqs I want done.

Its for this very reason that I am going to start building my monk, necro and sin. So I can exploit cheesy ass builds that make the game horribly easy. Its about time I got to experience that!

Axe Warrior for 40 months. Heroes for about half the time. (?) yeah, this game hasn't been as easy for me as all you pro-researching "1337" gamers. Its my turn, damn it!

Now I have to find out what the nerfstick affected and what I should avoid wasting time building towards. (3 months to get a necro "solo uw/fow" ready just to find out I can't even use it for that anymore would suck big saggy hairy ones.) I'v earned a break. lol!

Ebony Shadowheart · Jun 19, 2009, 01:46 PM // 13:46

I empathize with you on the issue at hand. Unfortunately, this is how most people in the game are. They only want cookie cutter wiki builds because they have no sense of creativity themselves. They have no appreciation for people that can make and use other builds effectively and yes, it is very viable to create something not on wiki and have it work really well. At the same time, you could try a build from wiki and suck really badly at it because it doesn't fit 'your play style.' Everyone is different, and therefore enjoy different things, yet no one seems to keep this in mind. So yeah, I'm sorry you've had to deal with azzholes like that.

I learned very early on in my playing that grouping with people usually wasn't worth the time or the migraine. Although, I still do it occasionally for a fun change of pace. Besides, you have to dig through the 98% of terrible people to find that 2% of people that you really enjoy spending time with.

Martin Alvito · Jun 19, 2009, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

I've noticed people think my "I am Unstoppable" "Watch Yourself" and Soldier's Stance is a tanking build. How come you think that? There's no self protection in Soldier's stance. I simply bring the two shouts because with those I can have constant IAS without any negative side effect. The armor bonus, can not be knocked down and party protection is a side bonus, not main point of my build. And if I put in Asuran Scan I can easily do 80-100 damage a hit AND my hits land 33% faster constantly :P That's really more damage tanking + I won't be a bother to all my monks because I use Primal Rage and take tons of damage :P

OP, this unarguably gets better results:

Dragon Slash, Brawling Headbutt, For Great Justice, Enduring Harmony, Flail.

If working on Drunkard, you can use Drunken Master for Flail and skip the movement penalty/need for a cancel stance.

This leaves three free skill slots and permits more or less permanent Save Yourselves maintenance for the entire party with one of those slots. Assuming you have the energy to maintain it (dubious with or without a zealous weapon), you can drop your Asuran Scan in there and do far more damage than your bar was doing.

This is why people yell at you. You're sacrificing party survivability and damage for originality. This means you're not contributing fully to the team. So you get cut from the team.

Sola Stormbourne · Jun 19, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

This:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

You know what? My original, non-cookie cutter builds have all steadily improved, and after a certain point, the point when I got good at the game, I started finding all of my builds on wiki - even my terrible Quivering Blade test build is on the gvg section.

There's a reason for the meta..

And This:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

But since I don't LOOK at those sites, and I create my own builds, what is your point? lmao

I don't like taking other people's builds. I make my own. If the logic I use leads to the logic that other people have used in the past, so?

You seem to think that I said I'm the greatest thing since sliced bread. What I've said is, I make my own builds and they're mine. If someone else has made the same or a similar build, more power to them.

The game has been out for 4 years and there are a limited number of skills and possible combinations.
I make my own builds, and after wandering over to PvX wikia I've discovered my best working builds for numerous classes are on there, sometimes with a few skills switched around.
Nobody should be calling people names. But when you get better and better at the game, and start putting together builds that work well for the class you have picked, you will find those builds mostly already exist, especially for heavily played classes like warriors. That's not to say other builds won't work, they just will not work as well in most areas.
The real opportunities for innovation with a game this old only comes after skill updates, IMHO.