Curse

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 27, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Ryker

Are you really going to compare verbal abuse by a parent with that of a comment by an anonymous ass? Really?

Please read above.

Arkantos · Jun 27, 2009, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Please read above.

Your above statement doesn't make your analogy any less bad. I'm sorry, but the two things you compared cannot be compared.

Guldur · Jun 27, 2009, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Well he was surely right about op being a carebear. Anyone who gets hurt over a few curses should avoid any kind of competitive environment. PvP is not for you.

Anyways, what did you do in the first place to get called that?

Brett Kuntz · Jun 27, 2009, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enon

So you're approving the use of abusive words such as fags as long as it's not repetitive? I wonder what that says about your childhood...

We're approving the use of the Chat Filter, the very same one the OP turned off and immediately began crying because he saw the word Fag. GW cost me money, I had to buy it, and I find it silly that a % of that money has gone to paying employees to deal with retards like the OP.

Who does that? Who turns off a Chat Filter and then cries to the admins when someone uses a single word? You have to be the biggest dumbass on Earth to do that.

Nerel · Jun 27, 2009, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanood

I am reviewing a list of all the people who have wronged me over the last four years and am currently preparing a schedule of one word insults to fling at them in private chat..!

Remember to invite your guild along for the fun... 100 people simultaneously flinging a single insult each at the victim/s might be amusing, Anet might disagree.

Chocobo1 · Jun 27, 2009, 10:13 PM // 22:13

I would write about how stupid this is, but Arkantos seems to have it all down and I know that people like this don't change.

/sigh

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 27, 2009, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Your above statement doesn't make your analogy any less bad. I'm sorry, but the two things you compared cannot be compared.

The common thread of the 2 points are that words hurt. Can you deny that? One may be a very extreme case and one you feel doesn't merit any attention. What if the OP were gay ("not that there is anything wrong with that.", Seinfeld) would that make a difference? Fag and retard are thrown around all the time without any thought to their hurtful meanings. I find something basically wrong with that and there is no real good excuse to defend it. As I said, I would have handled it differently than the OP.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 27, 2009, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuntz

We're approving the use of the Chat Filter, the very same one the OP turned off and immediately began crying because he saw the word Fag. GW cost me money, I had to buy it, and I find it silly that a % of that money has gone to paying employees to deal with retards like the OP.

Who does that? Who turns off a Chat Filter and then cries to the admins when someone uses a single word? You have to be the biggest dumbass on Earth to do that.

Thank you for demonstrating a point I made above.

Still Number One · Jun 27, 2009, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Or maybe ANet can't ban every single person who calls someone a name on the internet. Personally, I don't want them to. Who wants to play a game where the carebears and people who get butthurt over insults on the internet get people banned everytime they see someone calling another person a 'naughty word'?

I'll start off by saying I don't think someone should be suspended for saying the word fag to someone. But the fact of the matter is, anet seems to be completely random with whether or not someone is going to be banned. I'm thinking of 3 examples off the top of my head where friends of mine where banned for saying things like faggot in team chat during an AB after someone said something retarded. How come anet decided to ban him but not the guy the OP reported?

If you are going to ban one person for a derogatory remark, you ban everyone for it. You don't just say this one gets banned, and this one doesn't. Equal acts deserve equal punishment. If this is a new policy and they are going to start being more lenient on people, then cool. But I'd be willing to wager someone is going to get banned for calling someone a fag just once somewhere down the road.

Kashrlyyk · Jun 27, 2009, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falynn Firestorm

Isn't it odd that on the internet that you're the asshole for calling someone out (or reporting someone) for their asshole behavior?

That is not odd, it is disgusting, even more to see moderators and administrators of this site to do it(BTW people get banned from this forum for insulting other members, even if it was only a onetime incident, no "grow a pair to the victim" or "shut up carebear" and so on):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Or maybe ANet can't ban every single person who calls someone a name on the internet. Personally, I don't want them to. Who wants to play a game where the carebears and people who get butthurt over insults on the internet get people banned everytime they see someone calling another person a 'naughty word'?

I want to play a game like that. If you don´t want to be banned, don´t insult people. You are actively doing something, so stop it. IS THAT REALLY SO HARD FOR SOME TO DO??? And if it is, I don´t see any reason why anyone should be lenient toward them. Or as garethporlest18 already said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

....
I think it's not the OP that needs to grow thicker skin, or at least him only, but also the ones who'd get reported and banned for it. What can't go 3 days with the game? Hey man if you can't do the consequence and be a man about it, why make the shoddy comment?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guldur

Well he was surely right about op being a carebear. Anyone who gets hurt over a few curses should avoid any kind of competitive environment. PvP is not for you.
..

And that idiocy again. "Competitive environment" != "curses allowed and/or mandatory". Examples: Tennis, Volleyball and even Boxing or Karate and so on.

Only lowlifes and idiots believe that both are intertwined.

makosi · Jun 27, 2009, 11:05 PM // 23:05

I frequently report for leeching/botting but very rarely report for abusive language. However, I was recently on the receiving end of some pretty harsh, personal attacks which I promptly reported. The guy never got banned.

My guess is that ANet can't be bothered with the consequences of bans, such as a barrage of "omg he started it," support tickets begging for account reinstatement or the prospect of defamatory forum threads condemning their company. I like this thread because it does the latter in an unexpected fashion.

It doesn't make much sense to me as to how people can get insta-bans if they're caught selling in Local Chat but we're given leeway to verbally attack other players so long as it's done subtley and in moderation.

"Grow a pair," and "toughen up," are not valid counter arguments to verbal abuse because some people are just sensitive natured, which there's nothing wrong with. The bulk of the discussion in this thread is subjective but you can't deny that calling someone a fag, in vain, falls under the 'verbal abuse' clause.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jun 27, 2009, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

And shame on you if you went to a dictionary and argued that one time offenses are not technically harassment. That's what criminals do. They know it's wrong. They know by technicality they can get away with it.

stating that something is not harassment is not an attempt to state that it is not illegal or morally wrong.

the people in this thread who went to a dictionary and looked up harassment were correcting a misuse of the word. what the OP described was not harassment, it was one instance of name-calling.

upier · Jun 27, 2009, 11:36 PM // 23:36

The thing I am wondering is, why do people feel like they are under attack when a person points out behaviour that one finds problematic?
Sure, I do get that there are worse things going on, I do get there there were worse things that were or could have been said, but ... so what? Should the simple fact that the occurrence of something that wasn't positive be reason enough not to speak up and express one's desire for this (or something similar) not to happen to someone else?

Yes, I am aware we are selfish little bastards - but we really aren't losing anything by giving someone a bit of support. Or at least not standing in their way.
If you look up the rules, you see that you do not have the right to any kind of language you'd want. But the game currently has a pretty decent system of of allowing one to say whatever one wants IF the people one is telling it to do not have a problem with it. As I have said many times, I've uttered far worse things in GW than what was said to me. The difference is that I knew who the target of my words was, how they will react to it or I was willing to accept that my actions were wrong, I was willing to apologize for them and ready to modify my behaviour accordingly for the future if I misjudged the situation.

Considering what rules apply to these situations, considering that people expressed their concerns that these rules might not be as good as one would hope - why not think twice before unleashing something that might be problematic onto someone else?
Yes, I am fully aware not everyone will do this - but just because someone is acting like a moron, doesn't mean I should to.
Do we really want to strive to have an experience worse than it could be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

the people in this thread who went to a dictionary and looked up harassment were correcting a misuse of the word. what the OP described was not harassment, it was one instance of name-calling.

If you look at the rules:

Quote:

The following will result in an account mark (suspension) or an account termination, depending upon the severity of the matter:
* Inappropriate in-game behavior — such as obscene, offensive, or racist talk or behavior, abuse of another player, or harassment.

you will clearly see that "harassment" isn't the only kind of behaviour that they do not consider appropriate. And if we also consider the fact that quite a number or people here are not native English speakers - it's certainly isn't something I would make into a grand victory when proven wrong.

Jessyi · Jun 28, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The thing I am wondering is, why do people feel like they are under attack when a person points out behaviour that one finds problematic?

Men don't tattle.

Haxor · Jun 28, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enon

So you're approving the use of abusive words such as fags as long as it's not repetitive? I wonder what that says about your childhood...

What it says about my childhood is that it prepared me for life. If your childhood was so sheltered that an anonymous person calling you a single-word slur or swearword has a serious affect on you, I pity that. I truly, truly do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

Or maybe we find it pretty ridiculous that people have been banned for doing the same thing, or even lesser acts than the one the OP described, yet they basically tell him he has a filter and he should use it. If that was the case what about all the people before him who have been banned for saying 'fag', 'retard', 'cocksucker', etc. etc...

Why wasn't their response to those simply just, you have a chat filter, go use it. They said the chat filter is no excuse for bad language and it won't be tolerated. So why is this case tolerated and others not?

Okay, this I can agree with. Inconsistency in punishment is bad - I personally think that unless there is a case of sustained harassment (multiple 'attacks') or intent to advocate harm, no action should be taken in any circumstances. The chat-filter is enabled by default, to me disabling it and then reporting everyone and anyone who uses a word that in some kind of language could somehow theoretically be seen as offensive actually sounds like a form of griefing.

Anyway, as I said - you have a valid point. Anet needs to choose a policy and stick with it, or clearly state it's a case-by-case basis. Seemingly random bans are bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falynn Firestorm

Isn't it odd that on the internet that you're the asshole for calling someone out (or reporting someone) for their asshole behavior?

If in 'real life' someone would go out of their way to find something, and then complain about it as offensive (whilst they would normally never encounter it), I'd call them out on it too. Example: someone takes heavy offense to pornography or nudity, but chooses to walk in to a red-light district anyway. After that, they decide to complain (to whomever).

I wouldn't take people like that any more serious than the OP, here. You go out of your way to encounter something that you don't want to encounter, and then complain about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

The common thread of the 2 points are that words hurt. Can you deny that? One may be a very extreme case and one you feel doesn't merit any attention. What if the OP were gay ("not that there is anything wrong with that.", Seinfeld) would that make a difference? Fag and retard are thrown around all the time without any thought to their hurtful meanings. I find something basically wrong with that and there is no real good excuse to defend it. As I said, I would have handled it differently than the OP.

If the OP were gay, he'd probably not care at all due to desensitization. Harsh, but true. That's besides the point, though.

You're comparing apples and oranges under the argument that they're both fruit. Just because they have some common ground doesn't mean they're suitable for an analogy.

Quote:

And that idiocy again. "Competitive environment" != "curses allowed and/or mandatory". Examples: Tennis, Volleyball and even Boxing or Karate and so on.

Only lowlifes and idiots believe that both are intertwined.

Concentration and frustration often go hand-in-hand. In top-sports you cannot allow yourself to become frustrated, because you will lose. This requires a lot of training on the part of the athlete. In reality, most people have nowhere near the amount of concentration that professional or semi-professional athletes have, and thus become frustrated. Exclamations of frustration are often swear-words. So no, they're not always intertwined, but they are often very closely related. Especially in 'amateur' environments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Sure, I do get that there are worse things going on, I do get there there were worse things that were or could have been said, but ... so what? Should the simple fact that the occurrence of something that wasn't positive be reason enough not to speak up and express one's desire for this (or something similar) not to happen to someone else?

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. If you mean that because it offended someone it should be dealt with, I highly disagree. It opens up a way too slippery slope where someone can easily claim to be offended by something and possibly get that person banned, even though it was never meant to be offensive. Lets just keep it simple; harassment (as in, persistent attacks) is bad, just turn on the chat filter for random swears.

Carn Angmar · Jun 28, 2009, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Being called a 'carebear fag' by by some random 12-year old who has no emotional control is hardly worth the effort of a report. You must have some severe self-worth issues, if so then I would suggest counseling.

If you think this is difficult, wait until you get older; it gets worse. The best thing for it is to shrug it off as I believe several people have already recommended. Laugh at the fool for his apparent lack of self-control and enjoy the game. You are always going to run into people who, on a bad day, have little or no emotional self-control

Otherwise have fun fighting the world.

Chocobo1 · Jun 28, 2009, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haxor

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. If you mean that because it offended someone it should be dealt with, I highly disagree. It opens up a way too slippery slope where someone can easily claim to be offended by something and possibly get that person banned

Thats pretty much what OP is doing. Reporting not because he's actually offended, but because he just wants to see people banned.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jun 28, 2009, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If you look at the rules:

you will clearly see that "harassment" isn't the only kind of behaviour that they do not consider appropriate. And if we also consider the fact that quite a number or people here are not native English speakers - it's certainly isn't something I would make into a grand victory when proven wrong.

ffs, i'll try to explain this one more time. by saying "this isn't harassment" im not saying "this isn't against the rules". im saying this isn't harassment. it can still be offensive to you. it just isn't harassment. if one more person assumes that by "this isn't harassment" i mean "this isn't against the rules" i'll punch a clown doubly in the chin.

i also never said that correcting someone's misuse of the word harassment is a grand victory. i was simply defending whoever corrected the mistake back on page 1 or whatever from that guy with the sheep avatar (i think) when he was acting as if people were looking up the definition of harassment to get out of trouble on a technicality.

and for the record i do think it should not be against the rules. but not because it isn't called harassment.

refer · Jun 28, 2009, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Anet will always be all over the place because there is no standard protocol of action. It is not "_____________ is auto ban", it is "One our of staff will review your case and make his own decision (aka opinion)".

But I do agree about the n-word though. Call somebody the n-word once and somebody will flip out but fag means nothing apparently. Wait what if I call them both at once, in one line of text? Will I only have a 50% chance of action then?

AKB48 · Jun 28, 2009, 01:51 AM // 01:51

People insult each other all the time in AB, you don't see much if any of them disciplined. IMO Anet support is too lazy to deal w/ small fries like these, they'd be much more interested to things....say like when someone found an easy way to obtain armbraces(sounds familiar?).