Curse

esthetic · Jul 19, 2009, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

1). Sales of additional accounts isn't anything that people are denying, in just the same way that Gold sellers buy additional accounts. Having more accounts sold is good for NCsoft, sure, but does that naturally equate to being good if the reason those accounts are being sold is detrimental to the game?

2). Reducing the amount of gold being purchased from RMTs and then claiming that having that wealth come from some other source won't somehow have a similar effect on the economy in turns of inflation? Gold seller sells me 250 ectos... on noes inflation! XTH gives me 250 zkeys... nah, no inflation? Logic.

3). I'm lazy, I want the pretty stuff, but I don't want to have to play the game and earn it... why are you advocating on behalf of the gold sellers again? As much as you PRETEND to make arguments against the RMT, you're conclusions support them.

4). The XTH can't create the same interest in PvP, without being an RMT equivalent cash cow? Of course it can. Non tradable zkeys for one thing.

5). They're already watched by the PvP community, Observe also works for PvEers... Browsing the forums on Guru to make your predictions on the other hand does nothing for the vanity of PvPers. Changing the XTH doesn't alter this.

"To this I ask, why are you asking a private, for profit, gaming company for integrity and fairness? " Because that is what they offered us as an incentive to buy their game... really, don't be obtuse.

Integrity and fairness are essential to create a fair competitive environment, I'm guessing all your points about the XTH supporting PvP game play just dissolved into... "I'm grasping at RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing straws trying to come up with excuses, bawwwhhhh, please don't take my zkeys away!"

Well done.

Wow, you just can't seem to get beyond your own opinion, I am gonna guess you have been called stubborn.

A pro and con list, is a list of the good and the bad, each in itself is not an argument for or against a certain position.

1) Sale of additional accounts means more revenue to ANet, is a good thing.
2) Lowering blackmarket activity for sale of ingame gold by third parties, is a good thing.
3) Offering an alternative to grinding to people is a good thing.
4) Increased interest in GvG and HvH is a good thing
5) Giving high level GvG'ers Rockstar status? is a good thing.

Now if you want to add "Cons" to XTH predictions beyond what I have already listed go ahead. My "Pros" to XTH predictions are valid, you can try to argue circles around it but you really don't get anywhere. >.<

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

I'm guessing all your points about the XTH supporting PvP game play just dissolved into... "I'm grasping at RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing straws trying to come up with excuses, bawwwhhhh, please don't take my zkeys away!"

You may think in your own mind that you somehow explained away my list of "Pros" as not actually being "Pros" but in reality you have not. If you articulate your points more, you may be able to add a point or two to the "Cons" list. By the way, I am not saying that XTH supports PvP game play, I am saying XTH is good for the game of "Guild Wars" And please read the OP. This is a PLease Take away the XTH prediction Whine thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

"To this I ask, why are you asking a private, for profit, gaming company for integrity and fairness? " Because that is what they offered us as an incentive to buy their game... really, don't be obtuse.

This makes me chuckle.. Is it not you who made the argument that, ANet can change any part of the game they want? That you poo poo those who say XTH was an incentive to buy the game, so they should keep it? Who is being obtuse?

Shadowspawn X · Jul 19, 2009, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Especially since compared to other currencies such as gold or ecto, ZKeys themselves have a merch value of 0 and the only thing they are used for is to advance a title.

Don't forget they are also used to purchase mini-pets, EL tonics, weapon skins and many other items in the player to player market. This buying power is putting upward inflationary pressure on the market by making "fred the farmer" grind more hours and more ectos or gold to buy less swag because some guy who is collecting 500 zkeys per month doing nothing has driven the price of high end loot up to ridiculous levels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I simply do not see them as being this insane threat,

Zkeys are not a threat to the economy as they are a legitimate currency gained by legitimate pvp play. The real threat to the economy is the XTH. And the welfare handouts distributed on a monthly basis, if the XTH gave out ectos every month would the community be so apathetic?

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The XTH isn't just an game economy question. Like I said, it's also a PvP question,

Its a threat to a non-pro pvper with one account because he can only play so many hours and achieve so much balth faction and rp's per month. His zeys are worth less because of the monthly influx of currency being dumped on the market on a monthly basis putting downward pressure on the currency and upward pressure on the player to player market.

Daesu · Jul 19, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

The solution is EASY, make the use of multiple accounts NOT be detrimental to the game, alter the XTH.

I'm so glad we agree on this very simple point

Too bad your reading comprehension fails. Getting rid of XTH would be unfair to many players who read their website advertisements, then went out and bought new accounts.

Quote:

By your argument Gold Sellers (RMT) SHOULD be allowed, they ALSO have an EFFECT on the economy, but they haven't crashed it yet, despite being around for far longer than the XTH.

Because gold sellers do not monitor and tweak the economy? I dont know why you keep trying so hard to equate ANet to online RMT gold sellers when there are so many differences between them. On a fundamental difference, ANet has the legal rights to their own game, gold sellers dont. ANet did the work so they should benefit from their own work, gold sellers are just leveraging on the game that someone else has created.

Quote:

Why can't I do a happy song and dance for Gold buyers, Bots, Exploit abusers and Account thieves? They're all obtaining shiny pixels for doing squat also? They're enjoying the game the way they want to. No idea, really...

You mean you can't tell the difference between a legit gain and a non-legit gain that is gainst the TOS? I suggest you read the ToS again if you dont know the difference between botting and XTH.

Quote:

ArenaNet made some things in this game DIFFICULT to EARN, the degree of difficulty and the amount of dedication required to EARN these things varies, but applies fairly and equally to all players.

There are many things in this game that are not difficult to earn. Not everything has to be expensive. Zkeys happen to be one of those things that are not that difficult to earn. Personally, I think zkeys are overrated and too expensive so I am sure their prices will drop even further with time.

** ignoring your other flames that have already been answered elsewhere in this thread **

Quote:

To get Nicholas the Traveler's gifts you need to

A). Have a character on each account with access to where Nicholas is, that is anywhere in every campaign.

How hard is that? If I, being a noob as you call me, can run my own level 4 to the mineral springs and crystal desert anybody can.

You can easily pay for someone to run you too if you prefer, and you only need to do this once.

Quote:

B). Collect the items Nicholas is trading for

So far, it has been very easy to do that. What is this week's item? Charr hide near Piken Square, wow.

If you are too lazy you can always buy them or ask your guildies to help you out.

I have always managed to get my 5 Nick's gifts for my low level account.

Quote:

That is called PLAYING THE GAME, it's something that I'm (oddly enough) not opposed to people doing, playing the game is different from REACHING FOR YOUR CREDIT CARD when you need an advantage.

Did those who get the original Kuunavang or Varesh mini pets deserve them by playing this game or by REACHING FOR THEIR CREDIT CARDS? Let's see Kuunavang was worth 100K+ectos, are those fine for the economy? How about those who bought the pvp unlock packs instead of PLAYING THE GAME to gain the factions to unlock them? There are many other "advantages" in this game that can be bought using money.

** Ignoring more flames **

ANet advertised on their website that each participating account would have a chance to gain zkeys through playing in XTH. This caused many players to go buy extra accounts to benefit from it. Do you think ANet is so stupid that they dont know that would happen? Do you really think that people buying extra game accounts for XTH is something that ANet never ever expected? ANet planned for this! Therefore, they should deliver XTH otherwise they would be misleading their customers.

Bug John · Jul 19, 2009, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

I post this because this is a community game and changes are made by players voicing there wants. Hopefully ill get some GMs attention and feedback. I would hope that the majority of people with two or less accounts will agree with me when i say there are players abusing XTH and it should be stopped or regulated. Make game accomplishments what they are again... not objects of personal desire that people pay money for in-game status.

GW is a game, a game is about fun, not about how much you've got in store.

If you play for titles or e-peen, anything can be obtained by a somewhat dedicated player (unless you want an unded mini kanaxai, but even 20 accounts won't get you that), regardless of the number of accounts you have.

What people like you can't realize is that :

- In game gold is so easy to make by casual playing that XTH is far from being an important part of it (who would pay for the keys if there was no other way to make gold ?).
- Extremely rich players were extremely rich BEFORE XTH, and still are after.
- XTH has certainly been designed to be "abused".
- More equality in real world would really be a good thing, but who cares about a game ?

I think you should just enjoy your game and stop worrying about others.

They want to spend money to get small advantages in game ? Good for us, maybe we'll get a better GW2.

Shadowspawn X · Jul 19, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

ANet advertised on their website that each participating account would have a chance to gain zkeys through playing in XTH. This caused many players to go buy extra accounts to benefit from it.

The terminology on that web site is horrible. I've seen it called voting, but no one is being elected. I've heard it called gambling, but how you can you gamble with no risk of losing anything? Seriously you don't play XTH. You just sign up for a welfare check randomly generated by the MAT outcomes. The effect of this huge influx of unearned currency on Tyria needs to be examined.

Lishy · Jul 19, 2009, 07:41 PM // 19:41

I actually don't think they will nuke XTH. It's like a promotion.
You visit site. You see an ad or whatever on the side-bar(Unless my memory is fuzzy). Anet gets revenue. You get zkeys. Everyone wins.

persuadu · Jul 19, 2009, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Dear OP,
Sounds like someone bought digital gw viagra (lots of it) and got a bigger e-peen than you did and now you feel less "distinguished" because of it. Unless you really got your titles to "impress" everyone else with your playing ability, then you should not really care how someone else got thiers, bought or otherwise. Anet has made several changes that have made titles easier to get, do you reccomend they recind all those as well in respect for those who achived them before the nerf?

As far as Anet goes, they need to fund their operation, the ongoing GW1 and the development of GW2, so for them, anything that sells more accounts is good, regardless of the purpose and/or impact on the economy. I am not really thrilled about it either, but I accept it if it means the continued operation of GW1 and the "timely" arrival of GW2.

So yes, I agree it has made things a lot easier for people to amass wealth by purchasing $10 accounts. My suggestion is try to make your real life like your game life - Put in the work and time, amass some RL wealth, and buy some accounts. Then you will be even more effective with your free cash and elite gaming skills.

Enon · Jul 19, 2009, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

The effect of this huge influx of unearned currency on Tyria needs to be examined.

The effect is WAY overdue. Removing XTH, or changing it to a lesser state, would be like stopping child benefit. Exactly, ridiculous.

On a side note though - buying multiple accounts for XTH is incredible lame and players who do so should be banned. Of course this is never going to happen, because Anet earning money, but still... Can you feel the drama..?

Fay Vert · Jul 19, 2009, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

That question doesn't make as much sense as you think it does. The confidence interval is independent of the size of the population it represents.

No it damned well doesn't, confidence is confidence, the size of poulation changes the number you need to get that confidence, which was my question to you. Given a population of 1 million, how many do you need to sample to get 95% confidence? It's a perfectly standard statistical question, which anyone studying mathematics would have no problem answering.

If they know what they are talking about that is.

Garreth MacLeod · Jul 19, 2009, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

That question doesn't make as much sense as you think it does. The confidence interval is independent of the size of the population it represents.

I think Fay was talking about confidence level rather than confidence interval.

For instance, using the current "How many Guild Wars accounts do you have?" thread, our current sample size is 630. If the given population is 1 million, we can say that we have a 95% confidence level with a 4% confidence interval. So, we are 95% confident that 37.62% +/- 4% own just one GW account. Also, we are 99% confident that 37.62% +/- 5% own just one account.

Daesu · Jul 19, 2009, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

You just sign up for a welfare check randomly generated by the MAT outcomes. The effect of this huge influx of unearned currency on Tyria needs to be examined.

You are guaranteed to win something but how much you win depends on your prediction. In a sense it is free gold and ANet has been throwing those around lately so players can get their HoM prepared for GW2. Actually the more things you have up there in your HoM, the more tied in you would be to buy GW2 so as to continue your gaming investment. I think that is what ANet wants to encourage, to push GW1 players into GW2 even if it means giving away "free" gold in GW1 to do so.

I am sure when GW2 is out, people would not care as much about XTH for GW1 anymore so this whole thread would blow away. They would have new things to QQ about in GW2, like GW1 HoM unfairness and what nots.

ZQuests, new opportunities to max your KoaBD title rank through Nick's gifts or otherwise, all point to HoMs.

GW1 is coming to a close guys, you are going to see GW2 beta announced very soon so stop your whinning about people getting XTH rewards in GW1. The signs are already out there for those of you who can see it. Before this year ends, we would hear more news about GW2.

Yawgmoth · Jul 19, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Some people need to look at the problem this way:
Just imagine Anet suddenly started directly selling Tournament Reward Points (Z-Keys) in the online store, for example 100RP pack for $9.90.
Outrageous.
But that's almost exactly what they ARE doing now!

So many BLIND or IGNORANT people don't see it... or even worse, see it but consider it something good!

An alternative to grinding and lowering illegal RMTs by just making official legal RMT is unforgivable.

Originally GW had a perfectly FAIR economy system, comparable to what Subscription based mmos got. It was one of several Main reasons why I've got into this game then. No advantages for people willing to pay more. Fair for everyone.

But starting with Factions Collector Edition they changed the focuse and started to drain extra money from the part of playerbase who's willing to pay for ingame advantages. And the XTH is the most extreme form of that, the biggest problem, because it's straight selling ingame CURRENCY for real $$.

If they really NEED the extra cash they get from selling extra accounts then it's the FAILURE of GW's business model!
Money from selling just the large content packages should have been enough to support maintaining the low-cost game. But now they're resorting to what the masses of F2P mmos do - selling ingame advantages for $$$. It's a failure of the system and if GW2 has anything similar to this, I'm not going to play it, just like I despise all the F2P mmos.

I've lost faith in Anet and GW because of this whole issue. While I've previously said for many times that I'd blindly preorder GW2 without seeing even 1 screenshot from it, it's not true anymore. Now I'd need one thing - an official promise that there will be NO ingame wealth to be sold directly or provided to owners of multiple accounts.

Inde · Jul 20, 2009, 04:53 AM // 04:53

This thread has degenerated into flames and insults. Closed.