Curse

Ghost Omel · Jun 19, 2009, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Which isn't true.

But now that they have an other option they don't. Doesn't that tell you that it's a good option, if so many people find the game more enjoyable playing that way?

Death of the team? Hardly. People who want to team up will team up and actually do team up. You can stamp your feet and deny it, but it's true. If it's become less prevalent, it's because the people who don't want to do it, don't have to do it and actually don't do it. Sounds like a perfect setup to me.

So your friend's experience leads you to believe this is the case in many guilds? Well, my experience tells me differently. Anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything.

Of course heroes contributed. They made it easier for players to avoid them, which obviously they want to, because they do. Heroes aren't the reason, they're a catalyst.

There are several more compelling reasons to explain the decline of PvP. Players leaving the game and not being replaced by fresh blood because of the ever-increasing difficulty threshold to get into PvP because of new professions and a very big pool of skills. Nightfall-era PvP doesn't compare to Prophecies-era at all; the exact effect of heroes can't be measured against all other developments/changes, except through useless anecdotal evidence and conjecture.

You know..its not fair.. i come here in hopes to post up my thoughts.. and then you come and steal away my shining moment.... No in all seriousness very well put counter on your side.. completely agree. Even though i slightly agree with a PUG killers that heroes are. Puging sometimes has its moment and heroes took away slightly from it... BUt it doesnt mean no one pugs no more.. so yeah the quoted poster still is wrong.. i think there is to much emotion and personal vendeta against heroes rather then rational thought and..facts...

Experiences do not go for a fact either.....I personaly find that heroes complete missing spots in the Guild team when needed.. especialy in small guilds when a usual member that play an ele is gone doing Speed Clear and there is no 1 to replace....And we for a FACT know that our other ele is good at MICROING heroes.. that way we do not need to take on a PUG and at the same time have decent performance....PUGing in my opinion is to get into a guild or get some one into your guild......

In any case heroes save time, trouble, and ensure a productive and fun gameplay.. rather then shifty feeling when playing is a LEEROY Wammo -_-

YoNkErS 2k5 · Jun 19, 2009, 01:12 PM // 13:12

The biggest problem came in Pvp, where you can go and hold halls with 2 heros, because sadly, the heros play better than half of the actual people do, who dc, or go afk mid match, or just plain don't know what their doing.

They kind of ruined pve, but pvp was hit the hardest, alot of people i know stopped Toomzing and gvging after.

Just one vicious cycle going downwards.

They didnt really solve anything Imo.

People say they helped people form teams, yet anet shouldn't have released 4 campaigns in the first place with all these missions and towns, the percent chance enough people could meet at all times to do the mission together is relatively 0.

They should have either created campaigns with less missions, or simply waited for more people to play.

There's not enough people to span 4 different campaigns, and the numbers just shrinking everyday.

Ghost Omel · Jun 19, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoNkErS 2k5

There's not enough people to span 4 different campaigns, and the numbers just shrinking everyday.

Do you have any official evidence of this happening besides the fact that jumpin on the "OH NOES GW IS DEAD" bandwagon..because according to the Anet copies were sold and numbers of them get more and more... Sure there are people who buy extra chapters,accounts...but it doesnt mena more people dont come into play.. so yeah im waiting ont the officla link where it states "THe Populated of once very active COORPG game Guild Wars has been diminishing daily for the past 2 years" title -_-

angelsarc · Jun 19, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Although I could give you 20, I don't need to. Using your logic I only need to give you 2. So here it goes..

What logic? He gave one reason. I hope you actually have twenty, but I doubt it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

This has nothing to do with strangers. It has everything to do with Guild Wars becoming a single player game. I really don't care who people are playing with. The point is it DID take away from people who want to play with others, because now others will likely not play with them when they may have before. I haven't even touched the problems caused in PvP yet...

The majority of players who H/H are the same players that used henchmen exclusively anyway. If there are really so many players that want to group with other players, why is it so hard to find others to play with? Surely there can't only be seven others in any given outpost at a time. These are probably the same players who get stuck if there is a dearth of healers, because they refuse to grab an NPC monk and go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I am not saying heroes killed the game. I am saying heroes contributed to the decline of the game. Big difference.

That's great. You're on the wrong thread, and every change since the release contributed to the decline of the game, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

It was a sweeping action that changed everything from the game itself to the players who played it.

Still haven't convinced me that it was a bad thing. Players can now change up their team build if it doesn't work instead of mindlessly zerging and hoping it works just once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

As far as I'm concerned, nobody should be able to beat HARD mode without a team in a game where team work and guilds are key. We are playing a game called Guild Wars where we can use AI to beat nearly anything in the game without a team or a guild. It is ridiculous IMO. Heroes contributed to the game becoming easy...and for anybody competent the game is unbelievably easy nowadays even in HARD mode (the mode that is supposed to be hard).

This is all your opinion. The "Guild Wars" refers to GvG and other PvP aspects of the game. PvE is set up poorly and does not teach players how to PvP; this is why we see such terrible bars in places like RA, AB, JQ, FA, etc. Just because it is possible to clear almost every in the game using H/H, doesn't mean that it is easy. It still requires the player to be competent, especially in starting areas. It will always be easier to use a full player team, unless you can only find idiots to group with. Do you find permasins or 600 smite groups to be somehow better than H/Hing when clearing areas? Hint: the issue isn't Heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The worst part is that whatever challenge is left in Guild Wars no longer comes from areas where it matters. In Prophecies, many areas (such as THK) were hard because you needed a team coordinated enough to do them. Team coordination and strategy was critical and were true skill. Nowadays all we have to do is roll some heroes and roll any area in the game (outside of some elite areas but nobody does those anyways because FoW and UW have better rewards and are also stupidly easy now thanks in part to heroes). Skill in Guild Wars PvE no longer comes from team related criteria...it comes from being able to slap the best equipment and inbalanced bars on your heroes (sprinkle in some PvE skills and consumables if you wish) and mashing your head against your keyboard. Thats how I see it. There is no longer a barometer letting players know how badly they suck, which is one of the biggest problems with the game and is caused in large part by the existence of heroes. I could probably argue that the PvE game takes no skill thanks largely in part to heroes, but I won't because being able to smash your head is an art form, and there are noobs who will post saying the game is still hard. /endrant

Heroes really aren't a large part of the problem. Yes, they made the game easier for people who were already not playing with full player teams by giving them better tools to work with, but in terms of making the game easier, they are only a tiny aspect. PvE skills and consumables really made a much, much larger difference. Monster AI also really needs fixing if you want the game to be difficult. There really never was any way for the game to let players know that they suck. If they couldn't do it with henchmen, it just means that the henchmen AI sucked. If they can't do it with players, it just means that their team sucked. If they couldn't solo it, it just means that their class is underpowered and Anet sucks at balancing. Bad players are too bad to realize that they are bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Nobody has ever been forced to play with others except in some PvP.

And there is no reason to start now, as some of the suggestions posted on Gurus are advocating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I know H/H won't be removed. People love them and they serve as a perfect patch to cover up all the problems ANet will never fix. I know the game will never go back to the so called "golden era" where everything was supposedly milk and honey. That isn't the point though. The question this thread asked was if heroes negatively affected the game, and my answer is yes 90% of the time.

No, the name of the thread is "How did Heroes kill Guild Wars?" not "Did Heroes negatively impact the game?".

I was able to clear areas like THK with just henchmen in the Prophecies era. Does that mean henchmen negatively impacted the game, despite being a core part of the game from its launch?

Daesu · Jun 19, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Proof?

Read my earlier post. More option, more diversity, to fit different play style.

Quote:

Now we touch on another problem with heroes...they are completely inbalanced when compared to the AI you are fighting against in PvE. As far as I'm concerned, nobody should be able to beat HARD mode without a team in a game where team work and guilds are key. We are playing a game called Guild Wars where we can use AI to beat nearly anything in the game without a team or a guild. It is ridiculous IMO. Heroes contributed to the game becoming easy...and for anybody competent the game is unbelievably easy nowadays even in HARD mode (the mode that is supposed to be hard).

Let me tell you what is imbalanced. Imbalanced is the ability to bring 24 overpowered, totally unfair PvE skills per team.

It is THAT ability that generates overpowered teams like Ursanway, Cryway, and who knows whatever PvE skill way would be next which requires all members of the party to bring PvE skills for it to work. A H/H team can NEVER accomplish that. Cryway and Ursanway were ALOT more powerful than any H/H combination that anyone knows of.

Quote:

The worst part is that whatever challenge is left in Guild Wars no longer comes from areas where it matters. In Prophecies, many areas (such as THK) were hard because you needed a team coordinated enough to do them.

If you think THK is hard, you should try HM DoA. THK is not hard, most people fail simply because they get over confident and split up instead of grouping near the king. HM DoA is so hard that there is yet no viable 6 heroes build to clear it and even clearing NM DoA is a challenge with 6 heroes. But a human team can clear HM DoA WITH ITS 24 PVE SKILLS PER TEAM allowance yet again. So how are heroes more overpowered compared to a human team again?

It takes way more skill to micro heroes out of a devastating AoE attack (because of dumb AI), than it is to play with a human team that can act independently on their own. And you want to talk about cons? Heroes can never ever bring cons, humans do. EVERY overpowered team build that comes out of this game require a human team because the heroes AI is either too dumb to use the build well (e.g. SF) or because heroes can't equip any overpowered PvE skills. A human team has always been more powerful than any H/H team, that is a KNOWN FACT!

Targren · Jun 19, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19

AFAIC, Heroes didn't "kill" Guild wars. PUGs almost did, and heroes saved it. A good example of how

Curseman · Jun 19, 2009, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I think that yes, heroes are bad for the game. It was clearly designed to be a multiplayer game, and that's where it's at its best, but heroes make it a lot easier to just go it alone, so most people do.

Ghost Omel · Jun 19, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curseman

I think that yes, heroes are bad for the game. It was clearly designed to be a multiplayer game, and that's where it's at its best, but heroes make it a lot easier to just go it alone, so most people do.

oH Oh so you say it easy wiht Heroes right.....YOU know how much EASIER IT IS WITH FULL PLAYER PARTY.........So what is you point really?...i dont see,just trolling i assume...

In any case once more the example given by the posters above me are great and undeniable =)

snaek · Jun 20, 2009, 02:16 AM // 02:16

i didn't really want to reply to this thread anymore because its full of biased opinions, but i wanted to clear up curseman's point, which is perfectly valid. he did not mean it was easier, as in it takes less skill and knowledge; he meant that its easier in terms of accessibility and getting the group set-up and playing. it takes merely seconds to add a hero to the team, whereas it can take minutes and in some cases impossible to add a pug to the team.

i really don't understand how one can argue against this. the sole purpose of heroes is to replace a human player. thats the only reason they exist. so how can you even suggest that the multiplayer aspect of gw is not dying when people are being replaced by heroes?

DreamWind · Jun 20, 2009, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

We have a start and a finish. At the start things were populated. Now far less so. I'm definitely asking *how* it happened. This entails how much each "problem" contributed to the whole.

And to that we dunno.

Oh I guess we are talking about 2 different things really. You are questioning why things are less populated...I am questioning why the game became a singleplayer game. Either way we could probably say heroes contributed at least in some part. I am not simply saying that the game became a singleplayer game BECAUSE the game is less populated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Which isn't true.

You don't know it isn't true. It is much more likely that I am correct until we have evidence that proves it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

But now that they have an other option they don't. Doesn't that tell you that it's a good option, if so many people find the game more enjoyable playing that way?

It tells me nothing. How many people enjoy the other option more but have more difficulty doing it (or left the game) thanks in part to heroes and a declining team playerbase?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

People who want to team up will team up and actually do team up. You can stamp your feet and deny it, but it's true. If it's become less prevalent, it's because the people who don't want to do it, don't have to do it and actually don't do it. Sounds like a perfect setup to me.

Irrelevent. You didn't address the fact that less teams are forming because of heroes and you fail to realize that nobody was EVER forced to team. Repeat after me: NOBODY HAS EVER HAD TO TEAM UP IN GUILD WARS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

So your friend's experience leads you to believe this is the case in many guilds? Well, my experience tells me differently. Anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything.

Meh...now you are starting to sound like Bryant. I'll email Anet so maybe we can get some real evidence to support me already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Of course heroes contributed. They made it easier for players to avoid them, which obviously they want to, because they do. Heroes aren't the reason, they're a catalyst.

As far as I'm concerned Guild Wars is 2 different games...before heroes and after. I paid for the game before heroes not after (my friend actually bought me NF and EoTN). You are basically saying that since a lot of people didn't want to play Guild Wars the way it was built, heroes are good so they don't have to. Before heroes people didn't like Guild Wars?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

There are several more compelling reasons to explain the decline of PvP. Players leaving the game and not being replaced by fresh blood because of the ever-increasing difficulty threshold to get into PvP because of new professions and a very big pool of skills. Nightfall-era PvP doesn't compare to Prophecies-era at all; the exact effect of heroes can't be measured against all other developments/changes, except through useless anecdotal evidence and conjecture.

You ever wonder why people leave PvP? We know PvP has had a lot of problems, but if you are telling me there is no evidence that heroes killed HA and dropped PvP population in other areas you clearly have not played much PvP. Heroes caused an EXODUS in HA. Before heroes there was 7-10 districts...immediately after there was roughly 2-3 districts. The population in HA has never returned to its former self and likely never will. Heroes were DEVASTATING to PvP, and that is a FACT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsarc

What logic? He gave one reason. I hope you actually have twenty, but I doubt it.

He said that if he has more reasons for heroes being good rather than bad, than heroes are good. Unfortunately he gave one good reason and I gave two. So I win. =D

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsarc

The majority of players who H/H are the same players that used henchmen exclusively anyway. If there are really so many players that want to group with other players, why is it so hard to find others to play with? Surely there can't only be seven others in any given outpost at a time.

Again...you are stuck in the mentality that I am only talking about pugs here. As to your point, a lot more people would play in pugs because pugs are still better than 7 henchies. Also, I am not saying that heroes caused the problem of population spread (although it may have contributed slightly is irrelevent). I am simply responding to the thread and saying that heroes did cause many problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsarc

That's great. You're on the wrong thread, and every change since the release contributed to the decline of the game, too. Still haven't convinced me that it was a bad thing. Players can now change up their team build if it doesn't work instead of mindlessly zerging and hoping it works just once.

There have been many positive changes such as J menu, observer, etc etc etc. There have also been many bad changes such as PvE skills, consumables, power creeps, etc etc etc. Heroes were good in SOME ways, but my claim is they did more bad than good. I suppose the people still left playing Guild Wars mostly like heroes, because the people who don't like them probably don't play anymore and aren't posting here. Guild Wars became a different game after heroes, that is all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsarc

PvE is set up poorly and does not teach players how to PvP; this is why we see such terrible bars in places like RA, AB, JQ, FA, etc.

Ok you are correct here. The problem...heroes don't help the issue, they hurt it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsarc

Just because it is possible to clear almost every in the game using H/H, doesn't mean that it is easy.

It means that in my book. No team skill required=easy. Very little personal skill required after heroes are well setup=easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsarc

Heroes really aren't a large part of the problem. Yes, they made the game easier for people who were already not playing with full player teams by giving them better tools to work with, but in terms of making the game easier, they are only a tiny aspect.

All that matters is they were an aspect. Anything that made this game easier was bad for it. Easier to understand and pick up yes...easier to beat no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsarc

There really never was any way for the game to let players know that they suck. Bad players are too bad to realize that they are bad.

Ah...so now we reach the heart of the problem. The best way to get better in this game is to play with people better than you. The barometer for knowing you suck is when other people tell you so (by telling you to change your build etc) or when you fail at something. Both of these are GOOD things as they allow you to become a better player. What do heroes promte? They made is so everybody who sucks can completely avoid all of this. Not only that, but it allows sucky players to succeed by themselves! Heroes were a godsend to sucky players, but a hellspawn for the difficulty and challenge of the game as well as the idea of "skill>time". Yes powercreep is a factor, but at least it didn't allow avoidance of problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsarc

And there is no reason to start now, as some of the suggestions posted on Gurus are advocating.

Nobody is advocating forcing anybody to do anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsarc

No, the name of the thread is "How did Heroes kill Guild Wars?" not "Did Heroes negatively impact the game?".

Well...the problem with the word "kill" is that it has many definitions. Many people say Guild Wars isn't dead until the servers go down. Saying heroes killed Guild Wars would get me nowhere. I prefer to say it the other way because it is still on topic and doesn't get the asshats that say the game isn't dead on my back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Read my earlier post. More option, more diversity, to fit different play style.

Read my other post. Not all options are good. You are turning this into a circle without answering my question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Cryway and Ursanway were ALOT more powerful than any H/H combination that anyone knows of.

Correct, which is why they should have been nerfed. H/H builds are already too strong. Anything stronger is ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

If you think THK is hard, you should try HM DoA.

Of course THK isn't hard anymore. The good thing about THK though was that it promoted team ability. Anything that promotes team skill is good...anything that takes away from it is bad IMO. DoA is a good example of how screwed up Guild Wars is nowadays (in more ways than one). The idea that only good teams can beat it is a good thing. The idea that other areas that are beatable with H/H have better and easier to grind for rewards than DoA is hilarious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

EVERY overpowered team build that comes out of this game require a human team because the heroes AI is either too dumb to use the build well (e.g. SF) or because heroes can't equip any overpowered PvE skills. A human team has always been more powerful than any H/H team, that is a KNOWN FACT!

So human teams are better because heroes can't abuse stuff as much as humans. The abusable crap shouldn't exist and is off topic anyways. So much inbalance...meh I give up. Team required skill>Individual no required skill. That is all.

Bryant Again · Jun 20, 2009, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

You don't know it isn't true. It is much more likely that I am correct until we have evidence that proves it.

Doesn't the first sentence contradict the second?

bhavv · Jun 20, 2009, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

i didn't really want to reply to this thread anymore because its full of biased opinions, but i wanted to clear up curseman's point, which is perfectly valid. he did not mean it was easier, as in it takes less skill and knowledge; he meant that its easier in terms of accessibility and getting the group set-up and playing. it takes merely seconds to add a hero to the team, whereas it can take minutes and in some cases impossible to add a pug to the team.

i really don't understand how one can argue against this. the sole purpose of heroes is to replace a human player. thats the only reason they exist. so how can you even suggest that the multiplayer aspect of gw is not dying when people are being replaced by heroes?

Because people are not being replaced by heroes. Henchmen are being replaced with heroes. GW was meant to be soloable from its day of release with henchmen, heroes just made it more enjoyable.

Also, i am in full agreeance that heroes SAVED guild wars. Without them, pugs would have ended up killing the game themselves.

The original release box of guild wars said that you could play with others or play alone, solo play in PVE has been an option since the games release.

Not allowing solo play in a game and forcing grouping is a very bad tactic, just about every MMO on the market today can be played solo.

Why exactly does it bother pug players that I choose to log into guild wars or any other game and play solo? Why is how I play my game any concern of theirs? If grouping was forced in this game and solo play was not an option, I, as well as maybe 75% of the PVE community would not be here today.

Yelling @ Cats · Jun 20, 2009, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Why exactly does it bother pug players that I choose to log into guild wars or any other game and play solo? Why is how I play my game any concern of theirs?

Because they are terrible at the game, can't solo, and can't finish anything?

It's really a sad state of affairs when mission/quest completion percentage is higher with heroes/hench than it is with people...and it's not close, not even remotely close.

bhavv · Jun 20, 2009, 06:14 AM // 06:14

I actually got most of my legendary guardian title from 2 man hero way. I made the builds on most times, the other person was great and loaded up what I asked, and everything turned out to be a walk in the park. Then I vanquished most of cantha with the same guild, then got bored with vanqing and stopped there, but yesterday I vanqed one of the Z mish bounty areas while killing Ghial.

So I do play with others sometimes from my guild / alliance, but I never join random pugs. Those people dont even know how to make a working skill bar, let alone have the strategic sense to adapt or synergise with their whole team.

And then they come on guru to complain about heroes killing the game because people dont want to play with them lol.

Yelling @ Cats · Jun 20, 2009, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I actually got most of my legendary guardian title from 2 man hero way. I made the builds on most times, the other person was great and loaded up what I asked, and everything turned out to be a walk in the park. Then I vanquished most of cantha with the game guild, then got bored with vanqing and stopped there, but yesterday I vanqed one of the Z mish bounty areas while killing Ghial.

So I do play with others sometimes from my guild / alliance, but I never join random pugs. Those people dont even know how to make a working skill bar, let alone have the strategic sense to adapt or synergise with their whole team.

And then they come on guru to complain about heroes killing the game because people dont want to play with them lol.

Oh, don't get me wrong...a decent guild group can roll most places. Hell, a 2-person Heroway can do nearly anything in the game (and was generally what I did for HM, along with doing half the places with h/h).

But someone would just need to be really desperate to join a random PuG. I mean, they are full of useless builds, idiots, and people who leech/go afk mid-fight/leave if they die. The only time I'd even consider PuGing would be if I was really bored and decided to help someone, but even then I'd get pissed off with it.

I mean, I'd go to Viz Square where I know people would get stuck, with my assassin in 15k kurzick or canthan armor, offer to help, and be denied because "assassin suck", even though I had clearly beaten the mission before, along with subsequent missions. That amount of stupidity really turns you off playing with random people.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 20, 2009, 06:29 AM // 06:29

All I'm going to say, simply put, it removed further interaction within the playerbase, less of a connection more of a single player feeling. Can't see anyone refuting that fact. There once was a time when players used team chat, talked about builds, had a giggle, made connections, formed guilds. All from pairing up and doing a mission with multiple people/reactions/suggestions so on, can't say heroes did anything good in the long term for Guild Wars sake.

Yelling @ Cats · Jun 20, 2009, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

All I'm going to say, simply put, it removed further interaction within the playerbase, less of a connection more of a single player feeling. Can't see anyone refuting that fact. There once was a time when players used team chat, talked about builds, had a giggle, made connections, formed guilds. All from pairing up and doing a mission with multiple people/reactions/suggestions so on, can't say heroes did anything good in the long term for Guild Wars sake.

To be fair, people being bad caused people to stop playing with them. Hell, I henched all of factions with 6-7 characters.

The moment that I realized that playing with other people was a waste of time, was when I struggled with THK for several days, PuG after PuG failing and failing. Grab hench, roll the mission.

It was then that it pretty much dawned on me that playing with other people, aside from the "interaction" (which was, most of the time, unpleasant). Since then, PuGs have failed to restore my faith in them.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 20, 2009, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

To be fair, people being bad caused people to stop playing with them. Hell, I henched all of factions with 6-7 characters.

The moment that I realized that playing with other people was a waste of time, was when I struggled with THK for several days, PuG after PuG failing and failing. Grab hench, roll the mission.

It was then that it pretty much dawned on me that playing with other people, aside from the "interaction" (which was, most of the time, unpleasant). Since then, PuGs have failed to restore my faith in them.

I don't mean to be rude but when exactly did you pick up playing GW. Way back in 2005 many of the missions could not or barely be completed with henchmen, and ther were no heroes....

Yelling @ Cats · Jun 20, 2009, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

I don't mean to be rude but when exactly did you pick up playing GW. Way back in 2005 many of the missions could not or barely be completed with henchmen, and ther were no heroes....

Julyish 2005.

And yes, all missions could be completed with hench. Including THK, Abaddon's Mouth, and Hell's Precipice. They were in fact more difficult than nowadays due to the lack of heroes, and lack of stronger Factions/Nightfall/EotN skills, but they were very much doable.

As was all of Sorrow's Furnace, and some of the Titan's quests. Of course FoW and UW weren't possible, but that's what a guild and friends are for.

angelsarc · Jun 20, 2009, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I quote people and pretend to address their point, when in fact I just post what I want.

I can take it one step further. I win.