Curse

Gun Pierson · Jul 31, 2009, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Looks like I need to break out the old counter to that image, which states that henchmen are not the same as heroes, and which also states that the box has many things printed on it that Anet no longer follows. Frown.

On my Nightfall box it says: 'Heroes at your command: Recruit a team of fearless heroes who will fight at your side and follow orders in combat. Customise armour, equip weapons and lead your team to battle'

Nightfall was the last campaign and with Eotn we got even more heroes and they're still here today, which prooves Anet still follows the solo option. All we ask is that complete team of heroes mentionned in the quote.

MithranArkanere · Jul 31, 2009, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Well... that 'skillful'.... Alesia...

Wishfull thinking was that on that bo, XD.

Once GW2 is out, this could be a maybe.
For now, it's a NO.

Bryant Again · Jul 31, 2009, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Well...the restrictions were certainly a problem Anet never fully dealt with. Over time they did remove many, but not all of them. I don't think the restrictions are evidence that they didn't want a multiplayer game though. If anything they wanted a multiplayer game but didn't fully know how to do it. The fact that the game was PvP grounded originally but had many flaws sort of shows this.

That was a bit of a mistake of mine: I'm not saying that they didn't want a multiplayer game. I'm more saying that it's difficult to advocate for preserving multiplayer when I find it drastically limited and stressful.

This is largely stuff we've gone over before. I still feel that if playing with others was accessible and open-ended that heroes wouldn't be as shunned as they are, and implementing an unlimited cap of heroes wouldn't have any effect.

I still don't think that one should be more advocated over the other. Choice is a huge determining factor in games these days, especially with one such as solo and co-op play. Both need an emphasis, and both sides need to accept the views of each other.

If you want to play with others, that should be easy to do and enjoyable. The same should go for going alone.

Lishy · Jul 31, 2009, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Man, this is going nowhere until an anet representative hops in.
Even with the huge playerbase in favor of 7 heroes, all we're doing is saying the same thing we said from the start and that is stressing our reasoning for 7 heroes.

*sigh*
Come on anet.You said you didn't know what to put for the next content update. Yet you have a prize winner here -_-

Scary · Jul 31, 2009, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Man, this is going nowhere until an anet representative hops in.
Even with the huge playerbase in favor of 7 heroes, all we're doing is saying the same thing we said from the start and that is stressing our reasoning for 7 heroes.

*sigh*
Come on anet.You said you didn't know what to put for the next content update. Yet you have a prize winner here -_-

They would be champions indeed

And a reaction of GW in this thread couldn't hurd.

pamelf · Jul 31, 2009, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Seriously, just look at the numbers. Over 1000 people on GURU ALONE want this implemented. I can only begin to imagine the sheer number of people across the game board who would also love this.

I'd like to suggest that Anet put a poll on the official site and advertise it on the login page. I'd like to see how many players would love to have this done.

It's possible, and should be implemented. End of story.

DreamWind · Jul 31, 2009, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

On my Nightfall box it says: 'Heroes at your command: Recruit a team of fearless heroes who will fight at your side and follow orders in combat. Customise armour, equip weapons and lead your team to battle'

Let's get this out of the way once and for all...the boxes are NOT a good place to go for evidence on ANYTHING for many reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

That was a bit of a mistake of mine: I'm not saying that they didn't want a multiplayer game. I'm more saying that it's difficult to advocate for preserving multiplayer when I find it drastically limited and stressful.

I found it to be the part of the game that made it unique and awesome. To each his own I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I still don't think that one should be more advocated over the other. Choice is a huge determining factor in games these days, especially with one such as solo and co-op play. Both need an emphasis, and both sides need to accept the views of each other.

You have a point here. The problem I have is when one side of the game takes away from the other. This has been a major ongoing problem in Guild Wars for some time that Anet can't seem to solve.

Either way, I believe Anet didn't intend the game to have such an emphasis on solo play. Multiplayer PvP was the major emphasis originally. I suppose you can argue they SHOULD have had more of a solo intention, but I'm sure they didn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

Seriously, just look at the numbers. Over 1000 people on GURU ALONE want this implemented. I can only begin to imagine the sheer number of people across the game board who would also love this.

I'd like to suggest that Anet put a poll on the official site and advertise it on the login page. I'd like to see how many players would love to have this done.

It's possible, and should be implemented. End of story.

So polls should be the sole determining factor in what is implemented in the game? Ok how about a poll that asks if god mode or a skill that does 10 million damage should be implemented? Popular =/= Right.

Shasgaliel · Jul 31, 2009, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

So polls should be the sole determining factor in what is implemented in the game? Ok how about a poll that asks if god mode or a skill that does 10 million damage should be implemented? Popular =/= Right.

Indeed. We would have pre-nerf ursan back if the majority was to decide.... On the other hand when the game is getting emptier then ANET should at least have a look at the proposals from the people who still do and want to play the game.

Sleeper Service · Jul 31, 2009, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Talking about Ursan is pointless and unrelated to this subject. the ONLY bad thing about Ursan was that the tyranny of one team build was replaced by another which was only accessible to those who had bought the latest campaign. And even that argument was kinda shaky since that phenomenon has been occurring since the beginning of GW.

Ursan is out now and what happened? back to the same old shitty builds with an overepowered PVE twist and the usual inability to play using your own ORIGINAL builds unless you buy two accounts.

Ursan changed nothing, it just made some people rich and gosh WOW what a gamebreaker being rich is, its not like Anet aint literally throwing money at us every month.

zwei2stein · Jul 31, 2009, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

So polls should be the sole determining factor in what is implemented in the game? Ok how about a poll that asks if god mode or a skill that does 10 million damage should be implemented? Popular =/= Right.

Are you so out of arguments that you have to throw strawmans around? It's not like people ask for gamebreaker.

There is another point hidden in there anyway: there are 20% which do no want it and you can count on partying with them because they obviously do not want to H/H stuff but rather play with Dreamwind.

And if others rather play with H/H than with ... well, they probably have reason for that and would do so in any case ... with 7 henches, with H/H or with 7 heroes. They could as well enjoy richer gameplay and ability to make full teambuild.

byteme! · Jul 31, 2009, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Are you so out of arguments that you have to throw strawmans around? It's not like people ask for gamebreaker.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read his post. Who asks for such outrageous things anyways?

Shasgaliel · Jul 31, 2009, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

There is another point hidden in there anyway: there are 20% which do no want it and you can count on partying with them because they obviously do not want to H/H stuff but rather play with Dreamwind.

Thread is old. Most of them may have left the game or changed their mind. These numbers do not show anything reliable anymore and that is the point. Maybe the proportion of yes to no may indicate that on Guru there are (were) more people inclined for the 7 hero option but that is no excuse for making a personal attack just because someone does not share your point of view.

byteme! · Jul 31, 2009, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

Thread is old.

Thread may be old but the general consensus still remains intact even at present day.

Unreal Havoc · Jul 31, 2009, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

Talking about Ursan is pointless and unrelated to this subject. the ONLY bad thing about Ursan was that the tyranny of one team build was replaced by another which was only accessible to those who had bought the latest campaign. And even that argument was kinda shaky since that phenomenon has been occurring since the beginning of GW.

Ursan is out now and what happened? back to the same old shitty builds with an overepowered PVE twist and the usual inability to play using your own ORIGINAL builds unless you buy two accounts.

Ursan changed nothing, it just made some people rich and gosh WOW what a gamebreaker being rich is, its not like Anet aint literally throwing money at us every month.

Given that most areas can be completed without Ursan in record times, I don't see what harm it would do to bring it back at this stage of the game. It would probably still be slower than the current PvE speed clear meta but would at least give another option to those interested in getting in on it.

Gun Pierson · Jul 31, 2009, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Let's get this out of the way once and for all...the boxes are NOT a good place to go for evidence on ANYTHING for many reasons.

If you buy a Windows Vista box, you don't expect to find Windows XP in it, do you? You keep on ignoring the game was meant to have a solo option, as shown on all boxes and ingame from the day of release till today.

Shasgaliel · Jul 31, 2009, 11:28 AM // 11:28

There is nothing about solo play on my prophecies box.

Actually what about people who do not have NF or EOTN?
This seems to be forgotten here. I raised this argument once already but only got one answer so I will repeat it. Yes I have a few prophecies only people in my guild so I know they do exist and at least one with factions only. There are more people like this out there. They cannot play with heroes since they do not have them. You want to make change which will make them even more alone and cater the needs of people owning other campaigns (including myself :P). Now several people with just 3 heroes need to pug with those guys to pass some of the missions. With 7 heroes missions can be easier and therefore people who have heroes will pug less leaving proph and factions only guys more alone. The counter argument which comes to my mind is that then instead of borrowing them 3 heroes we will be able to borrow them 6 and that is how we can help them other way than joining their team. But does it really solve the problem?

In my opinion 7 hero parties are a very nice suggestion but which needs also some additional development. It really asks for adding heroes to prophecies/factions. If not releasing it will do damage to some amount of gw population.

zwei2stein · Jul 31, 2009, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

... Now several people with just 3 heroes need to pug with those guys to pass some of the missions. With 7 heroes missions can be easier and therefore people who have heroes will pug less leaving proph and factions only guys more alone. The counter argument which comes to my mind is that then instead of borrowing them 3 heroes we will be able to borrow them 6 and that is how we can help them other way than joining their team. But does it really solve the problem?

In my opinion 7 hero parties are a very nice suggestion but which needs also some additional development. It really asks for adding heroes to prophecies/factions. If not releasing it will do damage to some amount of gw population.

No, not really.

First, lets assume they want to solo.

Henchmen are quite adequate to all of the normal mode prophecies. We all were quite able to to blaze through all of the game with Hench only.

And once they leave NM, they will face bigger obstacle than lack of heroes: lack of skills/pve only skills comes first, leaving them out even from pugs. Typical pug wammo might ask for HB monk. Can proph/factions monk bring it? No, not really.

Second lets assume they would loose out help of other people.

It is true that some missions run smoother with humans. But that is because of mission design requiring splits.

That is something that even 7h will not be able to do. 7h would not kill pugs for, say, Eternal Grove because they would not really help with that mission. They simply would not be able to.

But outside those situations, it will stay the same as it always was. Party formation for linear "kill stuff, move on" was never matter of necessity if we could take Henches. Prophecies only character would pass pug with those people too and take Alesia & co. Only difference is mainly having to pull carefully.

As you pointed out, someone could borrow full team to prophecies only player.

---

With your argument, you do not need 7h to ask for heroes for prohecies/factions. Impact is about the same in your specific case: first two campaign owners loose out with 3 heroes already.

Scary · Jul 31, 2009, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

There is nothing about solo play on my prophecies box.

Actually what about people who do not have NF or EOTN?
This seems to be forgotten here. I raised this argument once already but only got one answer so I will repeat it. Yes I have a few prophecies only people in my guild so I know they do exist and at least one with factions only. There are more people like this out there. They cannot play with heroes since they do not have them. You want to make change which will make them even more alone and cater the needs of people owning other campaigns (including myself :P). Now several people with just 3 heroes need to pug with those guys to pass some of the missions. With 7 heroes missions can be easier and therefore people who have heroes will pug less leaving proph and factions only guys more alone. The counter argument which comes to my mind is that then instead of borrowing them 3 heroes we will be able to borrow them 6 and that is how we can help them other way than joining their team. But does it really solve the problem?

In my opinion 7 hero parties are a very nice suggestion but which needs also some additional development. It really asks for adding heroes to prophecies/factions. If not releasing it will do damage to some amount of gw population.

If there are Prophecies only people in your guild, ask them in 3 or 4 month's
if they still have prophecies only, or more asumable ...probably they wont
be in your guild anymore couse they have quit playing .
If not they have bought other parts and will share the same opinion as the most here.

Amen

sentex · Jul 31, 2009, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary

If there are Prophecies only people in your guild, ask them in 3 or 4 month's
if they still have prophecies only, or more asumable ...probably they wont
be in your guild anymore couse they have quit playing .
If not they have bought other parts and will share the same opinion as the most here.

Amen

That is true.

I started buying Nightfall, and after a month or so i ended buying the rest of them.

Lots of builds / skills depends on having all the campaigns

own age myname · Jul 31, 2009, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentex

That is true.

I started buying Nightfall, and after a month or so i ended buying the rest of them.

Lots of builds / skills depends on having all the campaigns

Kind of sad that to be good at the game you need all campaigns. I remember Anet saying only have 1 campaign you could get into anything easily (or something along those lines).