Curse

bungusmaximus · Sep 30, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary

You are blond right ?????

Its not to make it easyer....
NO its just to have more fun in creating builds en play the game as WE want it.

Lol yeah, seconded, since when is outfitting 7 heroes with the right equipment/skills easy? it's something a more advanced player would do, because beginners don't have enough unlocks, let alone profound knowledge of other classes. I think 7 heroes makes the game more interesting, not more dull.

In the past I would say: don't b!tch, find a PUG, but nowadays most outposts are deserted, and with Hard Mode hench often just don't cut it.

I don't think anet will give us 7 heroes though, so I don't quite understand why this huge thread about it is here

. First they give us 7 heroes, then people want 7 flag buttons, and so on and on...

At least, in later campaigns, aNet gave us better henchmen.

Wetader · Sep 30, 2008, 01:56 PM // 13:56

I'm all for getting rid of the hero cap for 1 main reason- convinence.

However, I'd prefer doing HM stuff with my guild and allies. They make it more fun and easier. Pugs, in my experince, were aweful. So removing the hero cap helps me when my guild and allies are busy or offline.

Another point of convinence is that I can play at my own pace. If I screw up, I don't get flamed and I can't blame anyone else for their screw ups- seen a lot of blame games on Pugs.

eximiis · Sep 30, 2008, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

7 heroes is not enough. Give me 11 so I can do Urgoz and Deep myself!

/sarcasm

But now seriously, there are NO reasons, not a single 1 good reason for increasing the number of heroes per player. "I want my game eaaazierrr" is not a good reason.
And at the same time there are many strong reasons Against it.

Anet should better concentrate at making GW a better multiplayer game.

Plz don't compare 7 Heroes and 8 human (24 mostly overpowered pve skills)

And the game can't be easier then it is So "i want my game eaaazierrr" is not the "why we want 7 heroes"

Inner Salbat · Sep 30, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

They are good enough to have created the 3 GW campaigns and those are generally considered (by the industry and players) to be top 10 MMO.

~ and don't worry about the American economy until Walmart posts it's results.

Worry I'm way beyond worry, www.infowars.com

imnotyourmother · Sep 30, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Well here goes my two cents. the only one that will read this will be the person that responds next so...

This is a MMORPG. So if you want to play with yourself that is your progative leave us out of it.

Second buy yourself an offline game if you want to play with yourself and leave us out of it.

I Hate Hero's. I like it when there were 8 people on a team. you want effective try that for a change.

sixofone · Sep 30, 2008, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Gotta' luv this thread!

"You can't have 7 heroes 'cuz that would make the game too easy!"

"It's PvE - can't be any easier!"

It's not about the ease of play, folks. It's about the #1 reason we play games at all: it would be fun! It's fun to customize. We customize our characters - armor, weapons - despite the fact they make no playable difference. Then, we got heroes and we could customize them as well - builds, armor, weapons. Heroes are just an extension of the player's arsenal. They're better than henchmen (if you have the slightest idea what you're doing). But, most of all, they're fun. Fun to change around and try out new builds.

People want 7 heroes because it would inject some new fun into a game that, for many, is growing stale.

"Yeah -well, people would find it fun to have God-mode, too! But, you don't give people that just because they want it." Pphhhthht! 7 heroes isn't God-mode. It's no more imba than what 8 players could do - in most cases less so. (No PvE skills x 8)

People want 7 heroes because it's more fun, less frustrating, and typically more successful than PUGging. A good team, a good guild, steamrolls PvE anyway. 7 heroes is simply easier to jump in and play than waiting for guildmates to get on at the same time.

"7 heroes will kill the multiplayer aspect of the game!" Why is that, exactly? Is it because heroes made the game more enjoyable for most people? Is it because people found they preferred heroes to real players? Or is it some mystical, inherent skill heroes have to simply make people stop interacting and playing together? I mean, come on!

"You can't have 7 heroes because it would be bad for the game!" I still don't get that argument. Bad how? Because it "hurts PUGs"? Because people will be tempted to play solo rather than with other players? Again, if that's the case, maybe it's not heroes that are the problem. (Outrageous! How dare you insult the player-base?!) Because people would have fun with it? What??

Etta · Sep 30, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

There're so many ways that Anet can do to improve both pug and h/h team, without having to increase the number of hero's slot.

Increasing the number of drops while grouping with real people, that'd help the pug's side for a start. Update the henchmen skills is a bloody great idea as well, for Christ’s sake the henches gang over there in tyria are still having a shittiest skill bar even know to date, even in hardmode.

This thread has been open since when? Last year? 99 pages so far, 1960+ posts of the same discussion over and over between the pro pugs and pro heroes, both sides are retarded for each other.

We asked them back in the old days and Grey said, "We can't loving do it, alright? Knock it off already!". Well, fair enough. Fast forward to present day and the same question popping up again. And Anet respond? "Here, have another god damn dervish hero and shut up".

Anet's grown weary and has turned a deaf ear to us, they just don’t care anymore. I need a drink.

Tyla · Sep 30, 2008, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

7 heroes is not enough. Give me 11 so I can do Urgoz and Deep myself!

/sarcasm

But now seriously, there are NO reasons, not a single 1 good reason for increasing the number of heroes per player. "I want my game eaaazierrr" is not a good reason.
And at the same time there are many strong reasons Against it.

PvE is already easy as it is, alot of people don't play who you may be friends with, alot of people in my experience are complete jerkoffs and those who H/H will continue to do so regardless and I'd rather have the ability to mess about and test the efficiency of team builds in a certain area without another player sometimes, however...

Quote:

Anet should better concentrate at making GW a better multiplayer game.

That, and make PvP more balanced.

Oh, and although I agree with having 7 heroes, I disagree with having no capacity on heroes in elite areas, but having a smaller capacity of 2.

4thVariety · Sep 30, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Arenanet says:
PvE is not "balanced" for seven heroes as they would make the game too easy.

Players say:
"I want seven heroes, because having three henchmen sucks and having three Pugs sucks even more"

ArenaNet is in total denial of the game's difficulty with a regular team, while players are in total denial about the real quality of pugs. In fact, people just do not like to wait forever to finally find some.

The solution:
Find one friend to play with, a person who shares the same goals in terms of titles or whatever. Rip the game apart using two humans and six heroes, which is even more imba than the "one human, seven heroes" Arenanet is so afraid of. Double Sabway dude, can't do that with seven heroes alone! If your guild or alliance does not respond to you trying to find a grinding buddy, then leave them, find a new one on the forums. It's as easy as that.

Other than that, the discussion has long since devolved to the point of a Mexican standoff between Anet and the users.

Tyla · Sep 30, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Double Discordway with an N/A Caller using PvE skills and Assassin's Promise is even more retarded. I say every enemy in the game gets a 20 spec Spirit Bond.

eximiis · Sep 30, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

There're so many ways that Anet can do to improve both pug and h/h team, without having to increase the number of hero's slot.

Increasing the number of drops while grouping with real people, that'd help the pug's side for a start. Update the henchmen skills is a bloody great idea as well, for Christ’s sake the henches gang over there in tyria are still having a shittiest skill bar even know to date, even in hardmode.

Even if they improve pugs search or even better or more drops with human team, i'd still go with heroes and hench cause pugs are stupid, tehy fail and are not fun to play with.

Thing is this thread is not if pugs are good or bad or if heroes will kill pugs or whatever, it's for "we want 7 heroes"

Time have pass and ppl quit the game, ppl play with guilds, some outpost are jsut empty, some area ppl just don't like. Grindtitle has bring some lazyness in GW.

Pretty much ThE reason to put 7 heroes soon in GW

Etta · Sep 30, 2008, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Y'know even allow us to reset the henchmen skill bars when we put them into our party is more than enough for me. Just the skills, no weapons, runes, armors etc. Also leave all of the fancy options like target lock, passive, aggressive etc to the heroes. Even for HM only.

Amy Awien · Sep 30, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

At the time and still today to some extent Guild Wars is one hell of a PvE game for your money, although with Perfect World some of that gloss is being rubbed off.

To be honest, that one really has nothing, absolutely nothing to offer in PvE and probably not in PvP either. It's character customization is fantastic, but after that it's a grind fest with absolutely no story at all and the range of quest types is virtually limited to those of the bounty-hunting variety. If this is modern fantasy MMO/RPG ... I am just glad Guild Wars is still up and running.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

Y'know even allow us to reset the henchmen skill bars ...

Yeah, I was thinking that too, maybe that could be implemented somehow.

Inner Salbat · Sep 30, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

To be honest, that one really has nothing, absolutely nothing to offer in PvE and probably not in PvP either. It's character customization is fantastic, but after that it's a grind fest with absolutely no story at all and the range of quest types is virtually limited to those of the bounty-hunting variety. If this is modern fantasy MMO/RPG ... I am just glad Guild Wars is still up and running.

Okay I tend to agree with you, there is sort of a story line there but you have to read it and that puts me off a bit and the micro transactions, still Artistically it's better than GW in some ways, like there not scared to put elfs in the game etc.

Bryant Again · Sep 30, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by imnotyourmother

This is a MMORPG. So if you want to play with yourself that is your progative leave us out of it.

ANet advertised solo play on the back of the box, so saying "you're supposed to play with people" is incorrect.

DreamWind · Sep 30, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

if you buy something you use it if you cannot use it you wasting your money, being prevented from doing things which you and I paid for is not getting your moneys worth, it's almost theft and there EULA reads like a who's who of a dictatorship which oddly you didn't read or get to read when buying it.

That same EULA says Anet can do pretty much whatever the hell they want. They could remove all heroes if they feel like it. They have zero incentive to add 7. The point was that the whole "omg I should be able to play solo because the box says" is still a bad argument and I've made about 5 posts why it is. Not to mention nothing says you were able to play with 7 heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yep, all the people that want full hero parties should just leave.
I mean that will surely help getting a party for the people that want to play with other people.

I don't see how anyone that is all for playing with people can oppose additions that would keep other people playing.

One of the main arguments of the 7 hero people is that those players would not play in PuGs anyways which I find to be false in practice. Mass solo play became the standard when heroes arrived. At least with henchmen people still played in groups because they realized hench sucked. Solo player was NOT catered to before Nightfall, it was simply allowed while the main point was to be in human groups. That is just one of the many reasons many people consider Nightfall the deathblow of the game...it largely killed human groups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

ANet advertised solo play on the back of the box, so saying "you're supposed to play with people" is incorrect.

Ah come on we've discussed this. I expected more from you Bryant.

Oh last thing, people saying "remove the hero cap" don't know what they are talking about. It isn't as simple as removing a cap. Nightfall was programmed with a 3 hero per human max and a complete 3 hero interface. Adding 7 per human would take loads of time and effort for very little return. You didn't think it was as easy as flipping a switch did you? If it was Anet would have caved in just like everything else in their game.

JDRyder · Sep 30, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I was going to go over in quotes but its way to many and pointless so f*** it if you cant follow along with who im talking about go to KC or something and spam wtb brain.

People saying they want to play solo all the time, leave the game, this game is not for you, dont try to change the game cause every thing is not going your way, just find a new game and play it. GW is "note IS not just to me IS" a MP game, If i wanted to play a FPS game would i play guild wars? No. If you wanted to play a solo why would you got GW in the 1st place, Its not a fully solo game.

For people that keep post the pic of the box, read more then that, on the factions box it sells the crap out of picking a faction, did you ever really pick a faction and does it matter? do you want your money back cause it says it on the box? No. Saying something is on the box is stupid in the games that come out today cause they sell the crap out of every little thing. Also on the factions box it says "its a whole new game" was it? no its the same game just new content. So all the people crying about "but it says it on the box it says it on the box" do you want your money back cause the other stuff it says on the box it does fully deliver? If you even want to go deeper, It says the henchmen are skillful, are they? So why dont you ask for your money back cause they are not?

If 7heros were added what would you do? I thought it would be a good idea at 1st but the more i thought about it the more reasons I came up with for reasons not to add them. So what would they add? They would not add the ability to make builds cause thats already part of the game even for full team builds. It WOULD be like adding weapons with more damage, cause its not adding anything new that the game does not already have, its just buffing the ability to use them.

heres something i wanted to answer but didnt fit well above cause it was just coming out of nowhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

"Wow. Seriously? Wow. I really can't joke about this. Let's try a *very* simple hypothetical here.

Let's say you have 4 differently colored blocks, and you're setting them up in a row. How many row combinations can you come up with?

Now let's say you have 8 differently colored blocks, and you're setting them up in a row. How many row combinations can you come up with then?

The exact same will happen with going from 3 to 7 heroes. If you try to refute this then you're just going to look really silly.

...on second thought, try to refute this : D"

It would be the same but you already had 8 slots in the group, and you pick not to use them all, cause you add henchmen, you could have added other players or a friend

Numa Pompilius · Sep 30, 2008, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

They have zero incentive to add 7.

Except the only incentive which really matter: the majority of players want it.

Quote:

One of the main arguments of the 7 hero people is that those players would not play in PuGs anyways which I find to be false in practice.

I can only speak for myself, but I completed all missions and most of the quests in Prophecies and Factions, with bonus/masters, before Nightfall was released, and I did it all with henches. Except Eternal Glade, which I did pug.

Quote:

Solo player was NOT catered to before Nightfall, it was simply allowed

That... don't really make any sense.

Quote:

Oh last thing, people saying "remove the hero cap" don't know what they are talking about. It isn't as simple as removing a cap. Nightfall was programmed with a 3 hero per human max and a complete 3 hero interface. Adding 7 per human would take loads of time and effort for very little return.

Really? How do you know this?
Just why would extending the counter to seven require "loads of time and effort"?
Because I don't see any obvious reason.

eximiis · Sep 30, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

People saying they want to play solo all the time, leave the game, this game is not for you, dont try to change the game cause every thing is not going your way, just find a new game and play it. GW is "note IS not just to me IS" a MP game, If i wanted to play a FPS game would i play guild wars? No. If you wanted to play a solo why would you got GW in the 1st place, Its not a fully solo game.

For people that keep post the pic of the box, read more then that, on the factions box it sells the crap out of picking a faction, did you ever really pick a faction and does it matter? do you want your money back cause it says it on the box? No. Saying something is on the box is stupid in the games that come out today cause they sell the crap out of every little thing. Also on the factions box it says "its a whole new game" was it? no its the same game just new content. So all the people crying about "but it says it on the box it says it on the box" do you want your money back cause the other stuff it says on the box it does fully deliver? If you even want to go deeper, It says the henchmen are skillful, are they? So why dont you ask for your money back cause they are not?

If 7heros were added what would you do? I thought it would be a good idea at 1st but the more i thought about it the more reasons I came up with for reasons not to add them. So what would they add? They would not add the ability to make builds cause thats already part of the game even for full team builds. It WOULD be like adding weapons with more damage, cause its not adding anything new that the game does not already have, its just buffing the ability to use them.

Ok ! Do.. we... have... the... option to play solo... now ???

Yes... or... No... ??

Saying to just leave the game because MR. loves pugs is b*** s***.

Do now compare Weapon that would do more damage with 7 heroes.

It WOUND add new content to the game and WOUND be good for ppl that like to play alone.

Stop saying this game is not solo, It's writen, Anet did say that solo play was ok.

This game is cleary SOLOaBle.

We don't care if it makes the game easier, this is not the point. It's already easy. Every player has already finish teh game. I've seen some screens that show you can finish prophecies boss with 1 skill on 4 ppl and 2 monks.

Bryant Again · Sep 30, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Ah come on we've discussed this. I expected more from you Bryant.

I'm merely pointing out that saying "this game is meant to be played with other people" is incorrect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

People saying they want to play solo all the time, leave the game, this game is not for you...

If it wasn't "meant for us", why advertise it as such? Why implement heroes at all?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

...Its not a fully solo game.

Now this is an interesting comment. Why is it not fully solo? Why is it only slightly solo? If ANet's full intention was to get you to play with other players, why give the option to play by yourself in the first place?

The fact is that playing by yourself was always an option from the start, albeit a limited one. Now not so much, and seeing the impact that heroes have caused (or lack thereof) it wouldn't differ much or at all with adding a full 7 heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

So why dont you ask for your money back cause they are not?

When we asked for better henchmen, what did we get? Heroes. So no, we're not going to "leave the game", we're going to do the exact same thing that got us those three fully customizable henchmen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

They would not add the ability to make builds cause thats already part of the game even for full team builds.

Um. What? We *know* that, and what you're saying is part of the reason why we want 7 heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

it would be the same but you already had 8 slots in the group, and you pick not to use them all, cause you add henchmen,...

Precisely, so allow us to use more heroes. Also, Heroes =/= People, so using that in the comparison is moot. If you want it in an even more simpler light, think of humans as oranges and heroes as apples, with henchmen being rotten pears.

You're using the quotations (" ") wrong, by the way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Except the only incentive which really matter: the majority of players want it.

It's not that most players want it, it's that most players don't care. You could probably just erase half the skills and they wouldn't even care. It's why it's hard to judge balance on this game because the amount of input is very little. People who are experienced with the game are always in the minority.