Curse

Bryant Again · Sep 24, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Guru's auto log-out due to inactivitiy = faaaail

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

no it does not play for you but it does tell you how...

You fail to realize how vital this point is. No matter what resources you're given, how many "tips" you get, how many weakpoints you've read up on, the tactics you've researched, nothing will prepare you for the real thing. If you put unexperienced players in the shoes of characters with finely tuned builds and give them every single strategy guide they need for the area it's still going to be very unlikely that they'll get it on the first try. If you want a good example, look at WoW: There's discussion, strategy, and full-out explanations of every single boss fight in the game - yet many, many people still wipe at them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

/sigh, dont tell me we are going to go over this again.

Providing proof you have yet to refute? Sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

I said he was being a dick head to them or got unlucky when he was not being a dick head. Plus hes not played with other players near as much as I have, so i dont think you can call me lucky with a few 1,000 hrs with other players. Not saying Ive never had the dick head pug, but its not often.

And who's to say there's not many in this thread that have had just as much if not more experience? Heroes didn't come out until Nightfall, you know. Options were very slim. For me personally I reached the 1500hr mark just about a month before NF, much of it dicking around with henchies, a lot of it with other players, much of it failure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

If your bored with the game now due to lack of new content or the game engine, adding 7heros is not going to keep you playing. Most people seem to think adding 7 heros is going to open new doors but its still going to be the game your already bored with.

Again, I reiterate for good reason: I heard the exact same thing with the release of 3 heroes, with people saying it's just going to make things just as boring as well as "hurting pugs". With 3 heroes you were given the oppurtunity to make numerous build options. With the current limit there's an endless amount of possibilities, but with 7 the amount of the choices would be multiplied tenfold.

For a game that's all about builds, that's quite a lot of game, and a whole lot of fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

No cause YOUR still going to be playing the same class with the same skills, and most likely in the same way, but with full team of heros, thats the only change, it would feel the same as if you were playing with H/H but easier.

I like this portion of your post because it highlights why heroes were so revitalizing in the first place. In no longer came down to just your class with your skills, but with many other classes and skills as well. It was no longer concerning and caring about just one single build from one profession but builds and skills from every profession. For many it provided a very rich, rewarding, and deep process, one that would increase profoundly with 7 heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Yea lets remove them

Henchmen??? I really hope I'm reading that wrong. Why do you want to remove THE MOST beneficial thing in PvE?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

and i find it funny you say how piss poor the IA is and WANT to play with it.

For many it's a fair trade-off to play the game at their own pace. Need to AFK? Heroes and henchies won't mind. Fail a mission? They'll still stick with you on matter how many times you lose. Tired of back and shit talking? They won't say a word.

Inner Salbat · Sep 24, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRyder View Post
and i find it funny you say how piss poor the IA is and WANT to play with it.

Still can't get a 2 letter acronym around the right way. AI not IA - someone please hit him with an acronym manual.

JDRyder · Sep 24, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

You fail to realize how vital this point is. No matter what resources you're given, how many "tips" you get, how many weakpoints you've read up on, the tactics you've researched, nothing will prepare you for the real thing. If you put unexperienced players in the shoes of characters with finely tuned builds and give them every single strategy guide they need for the area it's still going to be very unlikely that they'll get it on the first try. If you want a good example, look at WoW: There's discussion, strategy, and full-out explanations of every single boss fight in the game - yet many, many people still wipe at them.

you phail to realize most poeple DONT have problems with playing the game. You seem to think every 1 buy yourself cant play at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Providing proof you have yet to refute? Sorry.

gtfo with saying proof on the internet, Ive said 1+1=2 many times on this have gave you 2 fingers as proof but for some reason thats not good enough for you. It does not matter what proof I give you, your never going to view it as proof.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And who's to say there's not many in this thread that have had just as much if not more experience? Heroes didn't come out until Nightfall, you know. Options were very slim. For me personally I reached the 1500hr mark just about a month before NF, much of it dicking around with henchies, a lot of it with other players, much of it failure.

Cause most of the people in this thread said they used henchmen before heros and didnt pug before heros..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Again, I reiterate for good reason: I heard the exact same thing with the release of 3 heroes, with people saying it's just going to make things just as boring as well as "hurting pugs". With 3 heroes you were given the oppurtunity to make numerous build options. With the current limit there's an endless amount of possibilities, but with 7 the amount of the choices would be multiplied tenfold.

No, adding heros does not mean the fun level goes up per hero. If you found heros fun when they added them it was because they were new, you've already played with them for years now, its not going to be NF all over when it comes to fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

For a game that's all about builds, that's quite a lot of game, and a whole lot of fun.

No cause you've already played the builds, your not playing the heros bar, the AI is. Its the same content you've already done, nothings going to be new, same skills, same area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I like this portion of your post because it highlights why heroes were so revitalizing in the first place. In no longer came down to just your class with your skills, but with many other classes and skills as well. It was no longer concerning and caring about just one single build from one profession but builds and skills from every profession. For many it provided a very rich, rewarding, and deep process, one that would increase profoundly with 7 heroes.

Its way more rewarding to do it with with people. Any noob can put a build on heros and do a Mission/VQ, saying you masted Team work with 3-7 other people is much more rewarding cause it seem so many people cant do it from what you saying...

adding heros is the easy way out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Henchmen??? I really hope I'm reading that wrong. Why do you want to remove THE MOST beneficial thing in PvE?

Well your saying your playing with piss poor AI, and your playing with a bunch of emo NPCs that keep killing them selfs, yes remove them you will have more fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

For many it's a fair trade-off to play the game at their own pace. Need to AFK? Heroes and henchies won't mind. Fail a mission? They'll still stick with you on matter how many times you lose. Tired of back and shit talking? They won't say a word.

so why does that mean people need 7 heros.

pamelf · Sep 24, 2008, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

you phail to realize most poeple DONT have problems with playing the game. You seem to think every 1 buy yourself cant play at all.

That's not what he said at all. But it is naive to think that everyone has no problems in this game. If there were no player issues the official wiki would not exist. The help sections on these forums would not exist...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

gtfo with saying proof on the internet, Ive said 1+1=2 many times on this have gave you 2 fingers as proof but for some reason thats not good enough for you. It does not matter what proof I give you, your never going to view it as proof.

It is completely unnecessary for you to keep quoting Bryant's points without adding anything constructive. You've actually said "1+1=2" more times than you've actually refuted an argument. Instead of posting something so useless, why didn't you refute his argument instead of using "1+1=2" AS your argument...If you wanted to convince him you should have quoted his passage and then provided the proof you claim you've been giving all along...seriously, I'd like to see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Cause most of the people in this thread said they used henchmen before heros and didnt pug before heros..

That is very true, but I don't see how that figures into this at all except to strengthen our earlier points about 7 heroes not affecting PUG's in the first place as we didn't use them to begin with...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

No, adding heros does not mean the fun level goes up per hero. If you found heros fun when they added them it was because they were new, you've already played with them for years now, its not going to be NF all over when it comes to fun.

THIS is your biggest failing. You fail to grasp that other people may have fun in different ways to you. 7 heroes will open up so much scope for build creating, personal creativity and it will certainly increase MY fun. I didn't like the NF gameplay but I'm sure many others did. However the advent of heroes brought a new dimension to the game that really re-vitalized it for me making NF worth every dollar even though I didn't much care for the campaign. I WOULD find 7 heroes as a game re-vitalizing facture and would find it fun. If you don't, that is your prerogative, but don't dictate what is fun to people who might not share your idea of what 'fun' actually is...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

No cause you've already played the builds, your not playing the heros bar, the AI is. Its the same content you've already done, nothings going to be new, same skills, same area.

But our main argument has always been that it lets you create new builds, and test out new strategies in a way that isn't possible at the moment. I sometimes feel like you're not actually reading anything that is written...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Its way more rewarding to do it with with people. Any noob can put a build on heros and do a Mission/VQ, saying you masted Team work with 3-7 other people is much more rewarding cause it seem so many people cant do it from what you saying...

Once again, way more rewarding to YOU. The rest of that quote didn't make any sense, but once again you're forcing YOUR play style on other people. Your arguments are simply selfish. Bringing in 7 heroes is all about choice. You don't need to use them, but it is good to have the option. That way it can cater to all different play styles. You want everyone to conform to your idea of fun and your ideas of reward. It's just mind-boggling how circular and frankly unconvincing your arguments are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Well your saying your playing with piss poor AI, and your playing with a bunch of emo NPCs that keep killing them selfs, yes remove them you will have more fun.

Remove them and YOU will have more fun. People in Australia and NZ for one wouldn't even be able to play. Seriously, think before you post...

Please JD, don't micro-quote me with pointless posts and add something constructive to the discussion. Actually refute points instead of repeating your catch-phrase "1+1=2". I'm going to refrain from replying to any more of your posts because it's just getting pointlessly circular. I can't make any promises, because inevitably you will say something so un-informed or biased that I will not be able to stay quiet; but I will certainly do my best.

JDRyder · Sep 24, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

That's not what he said at all. But it is naive to think that everyone has no problems in this game. If there were no player issues the official wiki would not exist. The help sections on these forums would not exist...

Only time i see people asking for help on guru is when they just got the game, and this thread as well as just about every thread on guru kills your point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

It is completely unnecessary for you to keep quoting Bryant's points without adding anything constructive. You've actually said "1+1=2" more times than you've actually refuted an argument. Instead of posting something so useless, why didn't you refute his argument instead of using "1+1=2" AS your argument...If you wanted to convince him you should have quoted his passage and then provided the proof you claim you've been giving all along...seriously, I'd like to see it.

Ive done that many times now, i dont feel like going over the same thing over and over any more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

That is very true, but I don't see how that figures into this at all except to strengthen our earlier points about 7 heroes not affecting PUG's in the first place as we didn't use them to begin with...

You dont think adding heros got more people to solo?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

THIS is your biggest failing. You fail to grasp that other people may have fun in different ways to you. 7 heroes will open up so much scope for build creating, personal creativity and it will certainly increase MY fun. I didn't like the NF gameplay but I'm sure many others did. However the advent of heroes brought a new dimension to the game that really re-vitalized it for me making NF worth every dollar even though I didn't much care for the campaign. I WOULD find 7 heroes as a game re-vitalizing facture and would find it fun. If you don't, that is your prerogative, but don't dictate what is fun to people who might not share your idea of what 'fun' actually is...

If making builds is the only fun you get out of the game DL team builder. Some people may find it fun to have a sword that does 6000-100000 damage should it be added to the game? Just cause you want 7heros only to make builds "f***ing pointless" does not mean every 1 will make builds as a source of fun. Just like every thing they add to the game, 90% of the players will just abuse them for other reasons like farming ecto, gyms, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

But our main argument has always been that it lets you create new builds, and test out new strategies in a way that isn't possible at the moment. I sometimes feel like you're not actually reading anything that is written...

I read them, but making builds is not a reason to add 7heros. There's more down sides if they are added than upsides.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

Once again, way more rewarding to YOU. The rest of that quote didn't make any sense, but once again you're forcing YOUR play style on other people. Your arguments are simply selfish. Bringing in 7 heroes is all about choice. You don't need to use them, but it is good to have the option. That way it can cater to all different play styles. You want everyone to conform to your idea of fun and your ideas of reward. It's just mind-boggling how circular and frankly unconvincing your arguments are.

Just think about it, think about about more then the upsides if they added heros, its a bad idea, you guys are only thinking about what will happen to your game w/o thinking/knowing anything about other people and what they may do with 7heros. Its more selfish to add them, you already can make heros builds, you already can solo every thing they want you to be able to "not being about to solo deep, DoA, etc things made for groups of real people" why are you asking for more?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

Remove them and YOU will have more fun. People in Australia and NZ for one wouldn't even be able to play. Seriously, think before you post...

Read before you post. a few post back BA was talking about how shitty they are and how they kill them selfs, so i said "well remove them if they are so shitty"

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

Please JD, don't micro-quote me with pointless posts and add something constructive to the discussion. Actually refute points instead of repeating your catch-phrase "1+1=2". I'm going to refrain from replying to any more of your posts because it's just getting pointlessly circular. I can't make any promises, because inevitably you will say something so un-informed or biased that I will not be able to stay quiet; but I will certainly do my best.

This thread has been pointless for the last 93 pages.

Whirlwind · Sep 24, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

You dont think adding heros got more people to solo?

You don't think those people didn't want to solo in the first place, but couldn't without a halfway viable way....?

Bryant Again · Sep 25, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Only time i see people asking for help on guru is when they just got the game, and this thread as well as just about every thread on guru kills your point.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh what? First: How can you tell every single thread from all of these places is from nothing but "newbies"? Second:...How is her point "killed"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Ive done that many times now, i dont feel like going over the same thing over and over any more.

Incorrect. You just don't have a point, and everything you've brought up has been refuted. You just keep falling back on your "I don't feel like going over it anymore" statement because that's all you have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

If making builds is the only fun you get out of the game DL team builder. Some people may find it fun to have a sword that does 6000-100000 damage should it be added to the game? Just cause you want 7heros only to make builds "f***ing pointless" does not mean every 1 will make builds as a source of fun. Just like every thing they add to the game, 90% of the players will just abuse them for other reasons like farming ecto, gyms, etc.

But here's the thing: Adding a sword that does one trillion brillion damage will harm the game. Adding 4 more hero slots will not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

I read them, but making builds is not a reason to add 7heros. There's more down sides if they are added than upsides.

Stop saying "I swear it's there!" and show us the downsides.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

... why are you asking for more?

Because there's no reason not to implement them

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Read before you post. a few post back BA was talking about how shitty they are and how they kill them selfs, so i said "well remove them if they are so shitty"

...Which in retrospect was actually a very immature and highly unconstructive comment. You just keep digging yourself lower and lower, don't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

This thread has been pointless for the last 93 pages.

So why are you here?

Also: Thanks Pam for saving me a post : )

Inner Salbat · Sep 25, 2008, 02:22 AM // 02:22

-- Disclaimer --
{-
Playing Devils advocate because DJ just doesn't have the brain power it should be dully noted I am for 7 heroes not ageist I am just spawning the 2nd thread in my head that counters my own argument which internally was defeated.
-}

So without further ado and disclaimers beyond it effecting PuGs which has no grounds to be refuted I shall enter this, 7 or more heroes could course more lag on the server and make them untenable to be played on by any grouping people there by degrading the service they provide, this would just not effect PvE players but PvP players as well, the infer-structure hardware wise might not be capable of supporting such a demand either because a server operating henchmen vs heroes will be a whole different ball game, because they act differently than henchmen because of there basic need to grasp what skills are on there bar rather than as with the henchmen having a static set they have had all along.

Under these conditions what we are asking for is unreasonable to ask ArenaNet to foot the bill for no return.

{- Off Topic
A skill learned in life is you have a proposition young people tend to be exclusive either for or ageist, maybe they lack the mental capacity to argue ageist them self to be able to choose for or ageist based on a good internal review of the proposition, and choose based on emotion of if they want to be confrontational or go with the popular opinion.
-}

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 25, 2008, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

So without further ado and disclaimers beyond it effecting PuGs which has no grounds to be refuted I shall enter this, 7 or more heroes could course more lag on the server and make them untenable to be played on by any grouping people there by degrading the service they provide, this would just not effect PvE players but PvP players as well, the infer-structure hardware wise might not be capable of supporting such a demand either because a server operating henchmen vs heroes will be a whole different ball game, because they act differently than henchmen because of there basic need to grasp what skills are on there bar rather than as with the henchmen having a static set they have had all along.

I thought you were going to provide some sort of argument to help JDRyder? Heroes require little to no more processing power more than Henchmen do, and given the stable nature of ArenaNet's server setup, not to mention the low amount of players, it would be quite literally impossible for full hero parties to cause lag.

JDRyder · Sep 25, 2008, 03:47 AM // 03:47

all the quoting is getting more and more pointless with every reply.

even tho ive said it over and over 30+ pages ago

7Heros downsides
Will makes VQ's easier.
Will make quest/missions easier
Will make titles easier
Will make more bugs
Will make more exploits
Will make allow people to make solo farming DoA builds
Will make the game even more solo than it is now.
Will make it harder for new players to jump in and start playing.
Will kill any pugging thats going on now, cause people all ways take the easier way out, and will just use w/e the subway of 7heros would be and t space the game.

Theres more downsides, but im hoping you can put 2 and 2 together.

7Heros upsides
a few people will get to make their own team builds

What are the upsides? Making it easier for you to solo is not a reason. People just want the easy way out.

Inner Salbat · Sep 25, 2008, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

I thought you were going to provide some sort of argument to help JDRyder? Heroes require little to no more processing power more than Henchmen do, and given the stable nature of ArenaNet's server setup, not to mention the low amount of players, it would be quite literally impossible for full hero parties to cause lag.

Well done that is how I defeated the argument in my own head too I had an additional thread running too at the same time, which was cost to develop / enable which is the I refuted with the payment option.

Quote:

7Heros downsides
1. Will makes VQ's easier.
2. Will make quest/missions easier
3. Will make titles easier
4. Will make more bugs
5. Will make more exploits
6. Will make allow people to make solo farming DoA builds
7. Will make the game even more solo than it is now.
8. Will make it harder for new players to jump in and start playing.
Will kill any pugging thats going on now, cause people all ways take the easier way out, and will just use w/e the subway of 7heros would be and t space the game.

VQ's?

Wrong from 1 to 8, replied in classic DJryder style.

Rhamia Darigaz · Sep 25, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snner Ialbat

DJryder

Good sir, I do believe you've misplaced the letters in the name of that fellow, whose proper name is JDRyder. Such tomfoolery would not go unnoticed even by an Intelligence Artificial.

Bryant Again · Sep 25, 2008, 05:46 AM // 05:46

While most of it is largely baseless and hugely subjective, I will comment on a few points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Will makes VQ's easier.
Will make quest/missions easier
Will make titles easier

This is good, since as you shown in regards to HM difficulty, you rather dislike such cheap limitations in place of difficulty. The only reason it's "harder" is because you're "gimped" by henchies. If it's harder due to much more practical and intelligent means than I could understand how "easier" would equal bad in this case. However, there are none.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Will make allow people to make solo farming DoA builds

Solo farming = 1 person in party. Solo farming =/= 1 person + 7 AI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Will make the game even more solo than it is now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Will kill any pugging thats going on now, cause people all ways take the easier way out, and will just use w/e the subway of 7heros would be and t space the game.

These are the only two things worth discussing about. But quite honestly, you've provided *no* proof or reasoning how adding 7 heroes will kill pugging. If 3 heroes are so "awesome and overpowered", why is only a percentage of the game population getting on them?

Here's just a bit of what we know:
-The game, for many, is not easy.
+This can be seen due to the existence of a wiki, both fanmade and official
+This can be seen due to the Q&A forum
+The Campfire forums
+The Gladiator's Arena forums
+The Explorer's League forums
+The toning down of some areas in Normal Mode
+And the discussion found in each one

-In order to be successful with heroes, you need:
+The proper build set up
+The proper skills required for the proper build set ups
+The proper build knowledge
+The proper build synergy
+...All of which not easily accessible

So because of these facts and the fact that setting up a team of 7 heroes is a bit more taxing than setting of only 3, pugs will not "die". If you can't do well with 3 heroes, you won't do well with 7.

zwei2stein · Sep 25, 2008, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

7Heros downsides
Will makes VQ's easier.
Will make quest/missions easier
Will make titles easier
Will make more bugs
Will make more exploits
Will make allow people to make solo farming DoA builds
Will make the game even more solo than it is now.
Will make it harder for new players to jump in and start playing.
Will kill any pugging thats going on now, cause people all ways take the easier way out, and will just use w/e the subway of 7heros would be and t space the game.

Full guildie human group downsides
makes VQ's easier.
makes quest/missions easier
makes titles easier
allows people to farm DoA
makes it harder for new players to jump in and start playing.
kills any pugging thats going on now, cause people all ways take the easier way out, and will just use w/e the subway of guild they play in.

I would, for one, ban everyone from playing with more than three alliancees/friends and ban playing with people from your guild as it makes game unacceptably unfavorable to pugging.

DreamWind · Sep 25, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

But here's the thing: Adding a sword that does one trillion brillion damage will harm the game. Adding 4 more hero slots will not.

The problem I have with this is that nobody in this thread is qualified to determine what is good or bad for the game. How do you know 4 more heroes won't be bad? Remember, there were a large percentage of people who didn't think Ursan (and a lot of other broken things) was bad for the game on these very forums.

Inner Salbat · Sep 25, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The problem I have with this is that nobody in this thread is qualified to determine what is good or bad for the game. How do you know 4 more heroes won't be bad? Remember, there were a large percentage of people who didn't think Ursan (and a lot of other broken things) was bad for the game on these very forums.

Thing with that statement is ArenaNet don't know them self what 4 more heroes would do to the game because until you actually put something into effect you won't know the out come, so in that respect until it's actually tried no one is qualified to say either way.

pumpkin pie · Sep 25, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01

I still don't understand why people think having 7 heros will make players stop pugging or the other way around, ie: not having any heros.

i just realise something and I like to add.
on my other account, because it does not have all campaigns and expansion, as a result i don't have heros, and when I play that account, I still don't pug. I use hench, 7 of them, and they work just fine.

Now, the point I am trying to make is, how is having 7 hench different from 7 heros? In my opinion, it is still the same. lol, from actual players' experience (ie: mine, read above)

JDRyder · Sep 25, 2008, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

This is good, since as you shown in regards to HM difficulty, you rather dislike such cheap limitations in place of difficulty. The only reason it's "harder" is because you're "gimped" by henchies. If it's harder due to much more practical and intelligent means than I could understand how "easier" would equal bad in this case. However, there are none.

I didnt get the point of that at all really. If you saying H/H = 7heros, No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Solo farming = 1 person in party. Solo farming =/= 1 person + 7 AI.

still solo farming imo, does not matter how many people are in the group, you still getting the same amount of gym sets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

These are the only two things worth discussing about. But quite honestly, you've provided *no* proof or reasoning how adding 7 heroes will kill pugging. If 3 heroes are so "awesome and overpowered", why is only a percentage of the game population getting on them?

From what people have been saying on this thread 50%+ use H/H.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Here's just a bit of what we know:
-The game, for many, is not easy.

Why dont YOU give me proof of the game not being easy to many, Ive played with many, many, guilds pugs etc and its easy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

+This can be seen due to the existence of a wiki, both fanmade and official
+This can be seen due to the Q&A forum
+The Campfire forums
+The Gladiator's Arena forums
+The Explorer's League forums
+The toning down of some areas in Normal Mode
+And the discussion found in each one

All i see in the campfire is "what do you think of my build" 90% of the time, Just cause some 1 is asking what people think about their build does not mean the game is not easy to them, same for the Q&A threads.

The Gladiator arena is PvP, not Pve so dont even go there, it has nothing to do with how easy PVE is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

-In order to be successful with heroes, you need:
+The proper build set up
+The proper skills required for the proper build set ups
+The proper build knowledge
+The proper build synergy
+...All of which not easily accessible

No all you need is 3 necros and a space bar, If you have a guild and as for a hero build the 1st thing some 1 will hand you is subway or discord its not hard to get 0 micro builds

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Full guildie human group downsides
makes VQ's easier.
makes quest/missions easier
makes titles easier
allows people to farm DoA
makes it harder for new players to jump in and start playing.
kills any pugging thats going on now, cause people all ways take the easier way out, and will just use w/e the subway of guild they play in.

I would, for one, ban everyone from playing with more than three alliancees/friends and ban playing with people from your guild as it makes game unacceptably unfavorable to pugging.

Guild groups also take time to set up, and req that every 1 knows whats going on, where to go, how to work as a team "the big killer" etc. With H/H or 7heros its just add-n-go only 1 person needs to know the mission "or w/e your doing" dont need team work etc. A good guild group will always be more powerful than pugs or H/H but they you have to have 8 skilled players to run a good guild group or your basically running a pug

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Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Thing with that statement is ArenaNet don't know them self what 4 more heroes would do to the game because until you actually put something into effect you won't know the out come, so in that respect until it's actually tried no one is qualified to say either way.

well they are the devs, so they can have their own servers and test stuff like this "i hope they do anyway" maybe they do think it made the game to easy and didnt want to add 7heros or tell people why cause they knew people would not accept it well.

Inner Salbat · Sep 25, 2008, 07:36 AM // 07:36

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Why dont YOU give me proof of the game not being easy to many, Ive played with many, many, guilds pugs etc and its easy

Guilds = Human players default going to be easy.
PuGs = 50/50 chance your going to have an easy time of it.
H/H = Hard as rock you have to really know your stuff or your not going to get the best out of them, and even then it can take many attempts to get the job done and probably the only reason you do is pure blind luck.

Now before you reply again take your heroes kit them out properly and come back when you've VQ every area in the entire game, and completed all the missions - ALL - by yourself then come back and tell us it's easy, oh and while your at it the dungeons too, even with 7 heroes it ain't going to be easier but at least we'd have some bloody options, and would be a god send to those sodding missions in NF.

That includes hard mode as well by the way, until you've done that you've got no idea what your talking about.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 25, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

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Originally Posted by JDRyder

Cause most of the people in this thread said they used henchmen before heros and didnt pug before heros..

That's, for instance, me. I completed all missions except Eternal Grove with bonus/masters and a buttload of quests, with just henches. Which could not be flagged.

Heroes made my gaming life a lot easier, BUT here's a thought: I've never been able to use team builds.

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No, adding heros does not mean the fun level goes up per hero
--- cause you've already played the builds, your not playing the heros bar, the AI is. Its the same content you've already done

Not quite true. As having more heroes allows making team builds I am, in a very real sense, playing my heroes bar, and do get a new gaming experience even in the same old areas.
I mean, I've pretty much completed all there is to do on all three continents without ever getting to try a single actual team build. And this in a game which is all about team builds.

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Its way more rewarding to do it with with people.

Not to me. I don't play computer games to socialize and mingle, I play for relaxation and divertion. When I play I don't like to have to take or give orders, or have to be understanding about other peoples need to eat dinner during missions, but I do want to be able to take a dinner break myself when I feel like it. I'm not anti-social, I'm just not social in games.
Heroes and henches were made for people like me, and it's people like me who use them.