Curse

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Before people would have to PuG and fail a dozen times. Now we have heroes so we don't have to be stuck a week on a mission. Of course there are henchies, and a number of missions are henchable, but in some places they just don't cut in.

before there were heros only 4 or 5 out of every 10 pug groups i got in were bad to the point of not being able to do the mission or having to take longer than 30mins

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

And you gotta admit, there's lack of players.

no theres a lack of people pugging cause every is using heros, whens the last time you have been to Kam,KC or LA? most the time dis 1 is full and the other 9 districts are full of people as well, and then you have to count in the Europe districts as well

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Some already finished all the campaigns and know how to do it H/H, they're just finishing with another char.

not sure i get your point there.

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Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Some just quit. And thousands more will continue that way.

like ?

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Originally Posted by ALF71BE

As it was said before, Heroes didn't killed PuG's, PuG's suicided and Heroes made our day by allowing us to play comfortably (sp?).

no, more then 3/4 of the game using heros killed it. Not every pug was bad before heros. Sure theirs always going to be a bad pug and every 1 has a story about how a pug phailed but Before nightfall there were also a lot of good pugs.

Any 1 that played for 3 years will agree, before night fall, the game felt very different then it does now, it felt bigger cause you played with people. After night fall came out people just used heros and it started to seem smaller and smaller cause you didnt see as many people.

If you dont like pugs find or make a guild that do the things you like to do dont ask for 7heros cause you want to stay away from pugs as much as you can, that will kill the game more then 3 heros did

Numa Pompilius · Sep 03, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

I still think the whole idea that more heroes means less PUGs is wrong.

You guys who H/H, would you PUG if you couldn't bring heroes?

For me, I know for a fact that I wouldn't, as I completed Prophecies and Factions with just henches, PUGing only 2-3 times in missions which were very hard to do before heroes and flagging, e.g. Eternal Grove.

rexalex · Sep 03, 2008, 08:16 AM // 08:16

I PUG only when i have no other options. First H/H, second guild/ally and after that PUG.
If someone ask me and i have time im joining to a PUG to help. In other cases im a lonely wolf....
ANET do everithing to free their servers AND gain new customers.
But with 1 ars you cant ride 2 horse....

/signed for 7 heroes

Tyla · Sep 03, 2008, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I still think the whole idea that more heroes means less PUGs is wrong.

You guys who H/H, would you PUG if you couldn't bring heroes?

For me, I know for a fact that I wouldn't, as I completed Prophecies and Factions with just henches, PUGing only 2-3 times in missions which were very hard to do before heroes and flagging, e.g. Eternal Grove.

I completely agree, Numa.

ALF71BE · Sep 03, 2008, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

before there were heros only 4 or 5 out of every 10 pug groups i got in were bad to the point of not being able to do the mission or having to take longer than 30mins

So still half the time you'd be ragequitting 'cause of the stupid wammo.

H/H never over aggro. They also don't argue, you can quit if something IRL comes up, and the success rate is better than with only henchies.

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no theres a lack of people pugging cause every is using heros, whens the last time you have been to Kam,KC or LA? most the time dis 1 is full and the other 9 districts are full of people as well, and then you have to count in the Europe districts as well

Europe districts = 1.

LA = 1-2 districts as in FULL. KC = dead. Kam = 3 districts.

Remember Ascalon, Drok's and LA with it's 30+ districts each?

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not sure i get your point there.

Pointing out that people that want/need their new toons at the end of the campaign/some middle point won't PuG because success is assured with H/H.

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no, more then 3/4 of the game using heros killed it. Not every pug was bad before heros. Sure theirs always going to be a bad pug and every 1 has a story about how a pug phailed but Before nightfall there were also a lot of good pugs.

Any 1 that played for 3 years will agree, before night fall, the game felt very different then it does now, it felt bigger cause you played with people. After night fall came out people just used heros and it started to seem smaller and smaller cause you didnt see as many people.

If you dont like pugs find or make a guild that do the things you like to do dont ask for 7heros cause you want to stay away from pugs as much as you can, that will kill the game more then 3 heros did

Since very early, we've had the chance to hench it when the people avaliavable are just terribaed. That's one of GW's features. And don't come with the argument of GTFO and buy a single player game, because that's just stupid.

Some people joined in the begginning because of the multiplayer aspect. Now that it's kinda dead, some of those people quit the game or took a break.

Others that came late to the party are still playing because they can play solo or with other players, and they don't rely (sp?) completely on the terribaed henchies; but not because they always play alone. They also want to succeed (as in finishing mission/dungeon/zone) because PuG's suck now or don't exist. It's an option.

Avarre · Sep 03, 2008, 08:41 AM // 08:41

I personally find Guild Wars rather overpriced for a short single-player game.

Inner Salbat · Sep 03, 2008, 09:22 AM // 09:22

I'm in favor of 7 Hero's too, it's not just a matter of not having people for missions,quests,etc but there almost mandatory for vanquishing because you just can not PuG that, I got legendary vanquisher without grouping with a single person I did look from time to time in the more populated areas if anyone else was doing it, and not because I was looking for help or was even going to group with them but just too see if people was asking big fat zero across the board over all the campaigns.

The reason is this vanquishing takes a lot of time with some areas I did one the other day in EoTN that took 3-4hours, people just don't have that sort of time to be able to keep 8 people together long enough, some might granted but I'd propose that they are a rarity.

It is inevitable the only question is how much time it takes for Arena Net to wake up.

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

So still half the time you'd be ragequitting 'cause of the stupid wammo.

umm no cuz i dont get mad over a game in pve ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

H/H never over aggro. They also don't argue, you can quit if something IRL comes up, and the success rate is better than with only henchies.

thats only happened to me 5 or 6 times to me when i was in a guild group or pug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

LA = 1-2 districts as in FULL. KC = dead. Kam = 3 districts.

what time did u look cause about 6PM EST today there were 11districts in Kam.. if you looking right now all i have to say is no shit it 4AM EST no 1 is playing any where on the US servers

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Remember Ascalon, Drok's and LA with it's 30+ districts each?

there was only 1 game out when they had that many so people were more packed in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Pointing out that people that want/need their new toons at the end of the campaign/some middle point won't PuG because success is assured with H/H.

and theres a bird in the tree next to me whats your point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Since very early, we've had the chance to hench it when the people avaliavable are just terribaed. That's one of GW's features. And don't come with the argument of GTFO and buy a single player game, because that's just stupid.

how so? why are you playing a online game if you dont want to play with other players?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Some people joined in the begginning because of the multiplayer aspect. Now that it's kinda dead, some of those people quit the game or took a break.

no its not, a lot of guilds have np getting people to do things together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Others that came late to the party are still playing because they can play solo or with other players, and they don't rely (sp?) completely on the terribaed henchies; but not because they always play alone. They also want to succeed (as in finishing mission/dungeon/zone) because PuG's suck now or don't exist. It's an option.

whats the point of playing if your not going to have fun doing it? Finishing quest etc by yourself if far from fun imo and im sure most people will agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

I'm in favor of 7 Hero's too, it's not just a matter of not having people for missions,quests,etc but there almost mandatory for vanquishing because you just can not PuG that, I got legendary vanquisher without grouping with a single person I did look from time to time in the more populated areas if anyone else was doing it, and not because I was looking for help or was even going to group with them but just too see if people was asking big fat zero across the board over all the campaigns.

The reason is this vanquishing takes a lot of time with some areas I did one the other day in EoTN that took 3-4hours, people just don't have that sort of time to be able to keep 8 people together long enough, some might granted but I'd propose that they are a rarity.

It is inevitable the only question is how much time it takes for Arena Net to wake up.

what do you think guilds are for?

Numa Pompilius · Sep 03, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I personally find Guild Wars rather overpriced for a short single-player game.

If actually played as single-player games (ie not being helped by experienced players, not researching missions in wiki, and actually doing quests) they're anything but short.

It took me over 100 hours to finish Prophecies on my first character, and that's about 2-5x more than an average single-player cRPG.

And frankly the quality of the content is about on par with games like Oblivion (and the combat infinitely better).

So no, it's not overpriced if played as a single player game.

Avarre · Sep 03, 2008, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

If actually played as single-player games (ie not being helped by experienced players, not researching missions in wiki, and actually doing quests) they're anything but short.

It took me over 100 hours to finish Prophecies on my first character, and that's about 2-5x more than an average single-player cRPG.

Results may differ, sir.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

if you only do missions it will not talk very long but if you do every quest and go to every down it can take ages imo

Most quests are fed-ex or 'go to random place and kill mob' - making a dozen identical quests doesn't lengthen gameplay, it just wastes time.

Even then, no, Prophecies still didn't take that long. Not enough to justify the price to me as a SP game.

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Results may differ, sir.

if you only do missions it will not talk very long but if you do every quest and go to every down it can take ages imo

ALF71BE · Sep 03, 2008, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

thats only happened to me 5 or 6 times to me when i was in a guild group or pug.

Then you haven't pugged as much you said you did/do.

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what time did u look cause about 6PM EST today there were 11districts in Kam.. if you looking right now all i have to say is no shit it 4AM EST no 1 is playing any where on the US servers

Ok so let's see... Last time I checked, districts 5-12 weren't even full. The only one ever full is 1.

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there was only 1 game out when they had that many so people were more packed in.

And if you add up everyone playing these days, you won't get such numbers.

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and theres a bird in the tree next to me whats your point?

No there's not because it's 4 am EST remember?

And it's one of the reasons people don't need to PuG anymore.

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how so? why are you playing a online game if you dont want to play with other players?

Did I say so? No. I still do AB/RA with other people. I still do HM missions/zones when a group gets together. I still help others with the occassional mission/quest. But are other experienced players interested in doing Venta Cemetery Pugway NM? No, neither I am, except for the occassional toon that you run through.

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whats the point of playing if your not going to have fun doing it? Finishing quest etc by yourself if far from fun imo and im sure most people will agree.

You have to understand, there's more besides your own little world and your own little guild or alliance (or big, w/e). I'm more of a loner guy, not those attention talkative kiddies, and people have different means of having fun. Yours is not the only one.

While you play you're also chatting with friends, there's a somewhat pathetic built game economy, graphics, numerous posibilities as far as team strategy go, and an achievement game record, from the top of my head, that keep myself interested.

rexalex · Sep 03, 2008, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Results may differ, sir.

absolutely.... for me Proph was ~300 hours...
I enjoyed every minutes.
I started FC and NF in the meenwhile... doing all 3 campaign simultaneously.
I had 18 months in the game without any bad feeling. (Then arrived LS ... but i dont want start it again

)
I PUgged, allyed, soloed, H/H-ed ... i played as many way i could.
If i could i try fullheroe-ed too.

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Then you haven't pugged as much you said you did/do.

before night fall came out i did nothing but pug when i pve

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Ok so let's see... Last time I checked, districts 5-12 weren't even full. The only one ever full is 1.

and the others are not far from being full

and what about events? theres over 200 districts then

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

And if you add up everyone playing these days, you won't get such numbers.

no shit? does not mean theres not a ton of people still playing

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

No there's not because it's 4 am EST remember?

And it's one of the reasons people don't need to PuG anymore.

the point of the bird was that it had no point at all like you saying "people use heros"

and that helps my points cause your saying people dont pug cause they use heros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

You have to understand, there's more besides your own little world and your own little guild or alliance (or big, w/e). I'm more of a loner guy, not those attention talkative kiddies, and people have different means of having fun. Yours is not the only one.

i do understand that but, its a online game. You dont play a racing game and say "hmm this game needs to be more like a FPS" do you?

if you want to hero every thing "not pointing this at ALF71BE" why dont you just play some other game? having 7 heros will make it even harder to find people to play with.

Inner Salbat · Sep 03, 2008, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

what do you think guilds are for?

Mostly? GvG, TA, HA.. I can't understand why beyond a couple of elite areas why anyone would build a Guild completely based on PvE it doesn't make much sense.

And before you pull the line "why are you playing a online game if you dont want to play with other players?" with me as well I'll tell you why, because I like the game just because it's online doesn't make me like it less, in fact it's by and large superfluous unless I'm thinking of playing PvP, and at the time I could find any RPG games I liked 3 years ago and to be honest I still can't, GW was the grand experiment of if I like online RPG games result is due to various factors I do not, but I do still like to play GW.

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Mostly? GvG, TA, HA.. I can't understand why beyond a couple of elite areas why anyone would build a Guild completely based on PvE it doesn't make much sense.

so you dont have to do VQs, HM missions, Duns etc etc with boring heros. its also good for your bank.

Inner Salbat · Sep 03, 2008, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

so you dont have to do VQs, HM missions, Duns etc etc with boring heros. its also good for your bank.

Hero's aren't boring that's the thing you have to be very skilled to pull off somethings in fact it makes the game harder with hero's it's more of a challenge, playing with humans makes the game too easy.

Avarre · Sep 03, 2008, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Hero's aren't boring that's the thing you have to be very skilled to pull off something in fact it makes the game harder with hero's it's more of a challenge, playing with humans makes the game too easy.

So by your logic Heroes should be removed since Henchman make it more of a challenge?

Anyways, I don't care either way. This change is practically cosmetic considering how easy it is to just grab 1 more person to bring heroes and leave, and that H/H isn't really limited in what it can accomplish. It's one of those things ANet might roll out when they've got nothing else to show because they're working on other projects.

Schmerdro · Sep 03, 2008, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Some of you mentioned that you've had a few very good experiences with PuG's... but imo those are balanced out by the times when PuG groups have people that are negatively affected by their environment (also known as a**holes) and use GW to vent out their anger. I've met these type of people who show what kind of person they really are about in the middle of the respective area... at which point you have to ask yourself "Should I endure their mental abuse and just finish this quest/mission or should I go back and waste the time I've already been playing?" So, in the end, I get this equation:

PuG = socializing AND (relaxation OR mental abuse) AND low chance of success

The relaxation and mental abuse cancel each other out, and there's no reason to join a PuG if you're only interested in success... so their only unique attribute is their "socializing". Therefore, since PuG's are already used for socializing, I don't see how having 7 heroes is going to change that.

Inner Salbat · Sep 03, 2008, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

So by your logic Heroes should be removed since Henchman make it more of a challenge?

Where did I say that? the hero's should be increased to 7 because that introduces more challenge.