Curse

Zinger314 · Jul 23, 2009, 06:16 AM // 06:16

I'm really surprised at GWGuru.

I thought they learned not to trust anything ArenaNet says at face-value years ago.

Operative 14 · Jul 23, 2009, 06:22 AM // 06:22

I think a big point is being missed here.

The promise of the Beta in 2008 was a big one. I personally had reasonable doubts it would be delivered, and I don't think that anyone really cares *too* much about the fact it was delayed or postponed. I think pretty much everyone here will agree that there are good reasons to delay it which were acted upon.

From what I can see, however, most of the people here who chose option number 1 in the poll are only using it as an example of how far the void of information has gone; from beta in 2008 to absolutely nothing for more than two years. There has been absolutely nothing new about Guild Wars 2 since 2007, since the initial announcement in PC Gamer actually. All the information we have about it now is the same as what we learned in April of 2007.

No one here is asking for detailed screenshots of proprietary development. There are no demands for the software code. There is simply the request for a level of disclosure that is comparable to other companies that are excited about their product and acknowledge that there is an existing fan base of any size.

Competitors can steal nothing, absolutely nothing, from pretty pictures.

From what I can see, everyone who chooses option number 1 is simply asking for something, anything, to officially acknowledge that GW2 is in existence and on track as compared to the norm that other developing MMO's show. Other MMO's two years in development have an actual (albeit simple) website, a gallery of concept art (if not early screenshots) and a rough outline of concepts.

At this point there is GW2 concept art out there, but you have to go hunting all over the internet to collect what very few pieces there are. And as far as I know, none of it has been officially acknowledged as Guild Wars 2 concept art. The guildwars2.com domain links to the main Guild Wars website, where if you follow an obscure link you get an FAQ that hasn't been updated in months and links to articles more than a year old. Not to mention that all of those articles are basically summaries and rewordings of the original one.

I honestly thank Regina and Martin for coming here to acknowledge this thread, but there again is the problem. It is really nice to know that GW2 is following the development schedule, but that means very little. I know that they are not allowed to say anything, based on the decisions of higher ups in the company. However, we are left, again, with nothing more than their word that GW2 is on track. I do take it seriously and have no qualms in accepting their word that GW2 is on schedule. I am looking forward to PAX, especially now that our CRM has left a sizable hint about it, but I hope I'm forgiven for taking a cynical attitude towards there being anything new there.

I think that 90% of the people that chose option number one would be satisfied with a small three or four page website. A nice index page, a gallery showcasing some concept art that gives away absolutely nothing proprietary (updated with new pieces every few months), and an FAQ page would satisfy the community for months. Or heck, a simple headline on the official GW.com website that reads 'New Guild Wars 2 Concept Art!" and a page that shows a handful of pictures every now and then. Just simply anything to fill the complete and utter void of the last two years.

There is a level of discontent within this community that I have never seen before, and I think that that is worth noting. On other forums for other MMO's in development I have never seen threads like this, let alone so many that people groan and start flaming when there is 'another one.' There is something very strange and exceptional going on in this community, and with this game.

Again, a simple website and/or a few officially acknowledged pretty pictures would do nothing to injure the proprietary property of Arenanet. However, it would go a long way towards stemming the discontent that seems to be growing ever larger in this community. The issue is not that people feel they deserve information. It is that they are wondering where the information is and why it is not there.

When this vote first started, the largest percentage chose option number two. Option number one is slowly taking the lead. Now that is something to ponder.

pigdestroyer · Jul 23, 2009, 06:30 AM // 06:30

why would ncsoft? push so hard a new MOO (aion) that will most likely fail, I mean even MMOs with huge fan bases behind them (Conan and Warhammer) are struggling to keep subscribers

they should actually work harder on an already established franchise (guild wars) that most likely will succeed

shefdawg · Jul 23, 2009, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Personally I think you all are expecting gold and all your going to get is crap. They did not ever even finish making GW 1 and yet they are already started on GW2, LMFAO. what a floop it will be, you watch, then they might be able to go back to their original creation if the fans are not totally disgusted in that that is.

There are so many broken story lines and unfilled gaps that they tried to fix with the expansions, campaigns and bonus mission pack but in all reality all they did was spur more questions.

Did you ever wonder what happened to saul after the mursaat took him, or how about shiro, why did the emperor betray him or he the emperor, how is this lich lord and where was his home or whatever why does he want the titans out. Where did the am fah and the jade brotherhood come from, why do they hate each other so much. why does each continent have so much free open space after you get done vanquishing, i mean they filled in some with eotn but how bout the rest. what is the story between cynn and mhenlo or hell any of the other henchies you help out or use. I could go on and on with points but ill stop there.

The point is there are so many holes and broken story lines in this game that they could have spent some more time fixing or further expanding yet they choose to make GW2, so next time you spend your idle time wondering about how great GW2 will be, think of all the holes and crap it will have in it.

Arkantos · Jul 23, 2009, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by shefdawg

Personally I think you all are expecting gold and all your going to get is crap. They did not ever even finish making GW 1 and yet they are already started on GW2, LMFAO. what a floop it will be, you watch, then they might be able to go back to their original creation if the fans are not totally disgusted in that that is.

There are so many broken story lines and unfilled gaps that they tried to fix with the expansions, campaigns and bonus mission pack but in all reality all they did was spur more questions.

Did you ever wonder what happened to saul after the mursaat took him, or how about shiro, why did the emperor betray him or he the emperor, how is this lich lord and where was his home or whatever why does he want the titans out. Where did the am fah and the jade brotherhood come from, why do they hate each other so much. why does each continent have so much free open space after you get done vanquishing, i mean they filled in some with eotn but how bout the rest. what is the story between cynn and mhenlo or hell any of the other henchies you help out or use. I could go on and on with points but ill stop there.

The point is there are so many holes and broken story lines in this game that they could have spent some more time fixing or further expanding yet they choose to make GW2, so next time you spend your idle time wondering about how great GW2 will be, think of all the holes and crap it will have in it.

Holes in lore!= bad quality game.

I think the majority of players would rather get GW2 than a new, boring campaign that would tie up every single hole in the lore. Besides, ANet left lots of lore open for player speculation. I heard it brings up many discussions amongst some of the community, which is good.

Lishy · Jul 23, 2009, 07:27 AM // 07:27

We still don't know what those weird orb things are in the mineral springs cave. They look like a teleporter device ^^

Brett Kuntz · Jul 23, 2009, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

Competitors can steal nothing, absolutely nothing, from pretty pictures.

That is faulty logic. If a competitor can't get anything useful from a screen shot, then neither can you, which means there was no point to releasing the picture to begin with.

And what exactly are you demanding from Anet, a screen shot of a tree in the middle of a field? A sword being carried by a man? What does that give you?

Nothing.

But yet here you are demanding it, for a reason you can't even explain.

Kondichael · Jul 23, 2009, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

That is faulty logic. If a competitor can't get anything useful from a screen shot, then neither can you, which means there was no point to releasing the picture to begin with.

And what exactly are you demanding from Anet, a screen shot of a tree in the middle of a field? A sword being carried by a man? What does that give you?

Nothing.

But yet here you are demanding it, for a reason you can't even explain.

It will give us a small hint about the graphics.

JR · Jul 23, 2009, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuntz

That is faulty logic. If a competitor can't get anything useful from a screen shot, then neither can you, which means there was no point to releasing the picture to begin with.

And what exactly are you demanding from Anet, a screen shot of a tree in the middle of a field? A sword being carried by a man? What does that give you?

Nothing.

But yet here you are demanding it, for a reason you can't even explain.

More than that, too. After a few rounds of screen-shots how long will it be until people are saying 'Where are the videos? Every other game has them!' 'How does the combat work?' 'Tell us what that is?'.

Starting to release screenshots would start the hype machine rolling. It would attract attention from outside sources at a time when ArenaNet isn't ready to follow through on that and keep people interested. That's only going to damage their long term marketing plan, as new people come in to the community for Guild Wars 2, see what's going on, and then get bored and leave. They wont have the benefit of being able to say 'Omgosh first screenshots ever!' later on when they can keep the ball rolling.

Lonesamurai · Jul 23, 2009, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kondichael

It will give us a small hint about the graphics.

Graphics DO NOT make a game

Especially an MMO

Fril Estelin · Jul 23, 2009, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I'm really surprised at GWGuru.

I thought they learned not to trust anything ArenaNet says at face-value years ago.

IMHO that's what Anet is trying to address by being silent. It's a silence that says "we will only talk when we have rock-solid information that is 99% sure".

Ofc it's also an admission that revealing GW2 info in PCgamer was way too early and announcing a beta in 2008 was a terrible mistake. One they'll only correct (in the long run) by being correct whenever they'll make an announcement.

Gaile had a very, very different PR technique than that of Regina, where you can see she's careful about what she says and where she says it.

So wait and see.

Kondichael · Jul 23, 2009, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by Kondichael
It will give us a small hint about the graphics.

Graphics DO NOT make a game

Especially an MMO

Agree, but we are still all wondering how its gonna look.

Enon · Jul 23, 2009, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Graphics DO NOT make a game

Are you sure? Because last time I checked the graphics quality gets better and betters with each game, meaning we get more demanding, meaning Anet won't ever be able to pull of GW2 when it looks like D1.

I tried quite a few games myself and some of those games simply didn't had the graphic quality I was looking for. Purely based on that, I never bothered playing them again. So you might want to rethink you statement, mister DJ.

Lonesamurai · Jul 23, 2009, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enon

Are you sure? Because last time I checked the graphics quality gets better and betters with each game, meaning we get more demanding, meaning Anet won't ever be able to pull of GW2 when it looks like D1.

I tried quite a few games myself and some of those games simply didn't had the graphic quality I was looking for. Purely based on that, I never bothered playing them again. So you might want to rethink you statement, mister DJ.

I'm perfectly sure and JR will back me up on this

a sign of a great game isplayability and Microsoft have hit a cash cow with the XNA developers kit because of this on the 360 because of the great inde games that are popping up on there that may have ten year old or older graphic styles but are new, innovative and have so much playability I go back to them more than Halo 3 or Gears

but remember, I grew up with my Atari Vic 20 and the beast of a machine that was my Amiga 500+ (which I still have btw and it works) andthenmoved onto the master system and Megadrive and followed Sega through to the demise of the console generation as it was andthen got a Playstation for Granturismo and Final Fantasy 8 and yes, thats when I started caring more about graphics, but playability is STILL the deciding factor for me

EDIT:

A great case in point is the now open sourced Open transport Tycoon Deluxe which can be found here: http://www.openttd.org/en/

I was introduced to it just four weeks ago and already wracked up 250 hours playing it and lost three days of my life and loved every moment of it

firstly they started on working on the gameplay and multiplayer aspects which they've done a great job on and now they are updating graphics and they look awesome! I'd highly reccomend anyone that likes those sort of games grab it for free and those that aren't sure give ita try and then have a look through the mods available for it

Calaval · Jul 23, 2009, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kondichael

It will give us a small hint about the graphics.

Graphics can change immensely before public release, just take a look how Guild Wars looked in 03 (long before release): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJn9GhF8TI0

Even logos change too:

Lonesamurai · Jul 23, 2009, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calaval

Graphics can change immensely before public release, just take a look how Guild Wars looked in 03 (long before release): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJn9GhF8TI0

Even logos change too:

early screenies FTW!

Kondichael · Jul 23, 2009, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Originally Posted by Kondichael
It will give us a small hint about the graphics.

zwei2stein · Jul 23, 2009, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

A great case in point is the now open sourced Open transport Tycoon Deluxe which can be found here: http://www.openttd.org/en/

I was introduced to it just four weeks ago and already wracked up 250 hours playing it and lost three days of my life and loved every moment of it

Good point, another point: My current favorites games look like this and this.

Guess what? I have not found game that is more fun than this two. Graphics are just optional bonus for me, because once gameplay and immersion sets in, they are going to be ignored anyway.

Enon · Jul 23, 2009, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

early screenies FTW!

If they'd launch the game looking like this GW would've died many years ago.

Operative 14 · Jul 23, 2009, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuntz

That is faulty logic. If a competitor can't get anything useful from a screen shot, then neither can you, which means there was no point to releasing the picture to begin with.

And what exactly are you demanding from Anet, a screen shot of a tree in the middle of a field? A sword being carried by a man? What does that give you?

Nothing.

But yet here you are demanding it, for a reason you can't even explain.

Demanding? Demanding Screenshots? Where? Lack of explanation? Did I need one? Did I have a chance to do so before you baselessly flamed my post about my non-existent demands? :/

Please, at least bother to read my post and comprehend it before you start flaming away about things that aren't even there.

And a screenshot would;

1) Give peace of mind to an obviously discontent community.
2) Prevent threads like this from popping up.
3) Give ideas about the graphics to expect (They will be at least this good).
4) Give something new for the community to chew on after a two year void of information.
5) Give proof that GW2 exists in some form and shush those wonderful "GW2 is vaporware" one liner posts.
6) Give an idea of the premise of GW2, I.E. a man with a sword would discount the worry/hope that it will become some weird technologically advanced world like this picture (which was hinted but not confirmed, as far as I know, as a piece of GW2 concept art) suggests might be the case.
7) Give us an idea of the world, I.E. if we see a picture of a tree in the middle of a field, then we will know that GW2 will have fields, unlike a lot of GW1 which is just a maze of artificial canyons.
8) Give us something to show to our friends and excitedly tell them all about the upcoming game because we finally have something to show them.
9) Give some excitement to the community.
10) (hopefully) Show us that it was a good decision to basically abandon GW1 and instead develop a completely new game.
11) Give people the feeling that Arenanet isn't ignoring their fanbase.
12) ... Give infinitely many other things and concepts that each individual person takes from their own view of such a release.

None of those things would give a competitor any information than they already have or could figure out, but even a minimal release would have a very good impact on the community.

And yes, I've stated many times that I would be interested in seeing a tree in the middle of a field. If you would like I can dig up some quotes attesting to that very concept.

By the way, I didn't say anything about Screenshots. Concept art, yes. Screenshots, well, I mentioned them once in a portion that had nothing to do with what might satisfy the community. Again, I might suggest actually reading before you grab the flamethrower.