Curse

Mordakai · Aug 04, 2009, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

And yet people are saying they will buy GW2 and there was supposed to be a beta last year and we haven't even seen a screenshot. I may be wrong, but I believe even you said this Mordakai.

The Old Republic:
No release date (but expected in '10)
No beta
Concept art
Screenshots
Trailers
Gameplay info
Fully voiced
Building a fanbase community NOW

GW2:
Some generic lore
No release date (but '10-'11 guessed from a ncsoft business timeline)
No beta (half a year after they said there would be)
No screenshots
A few scraps of "unofficial" concept art
GW1 fanbase on the decline
And no one knows WTH will be GW2's selling points, aside from that it will have all the things GW1 should have had in the first place

Hmmmm, which one do I want to be the fanboi of here? The other guy had it somewhat right.

I'm not going to get into a debate of which potential MMORPG will be better.

All I was saying it's a bit premature to call SW:TOR the "NEW BEST MMO".

Plus, I have a healthy dose of cynicism with any post that starts: "Ive been playing GW since it cameout and never took a "break". I say hell with GW2... "

Really? devilnuker has been playing GW straight for 4 years, but "to hell with GW2"?

Oooookaaaaaay....

And there's a big difference between saying "I'll buy GW2" and saying "GW2 is the BEST NEW MMORPG!"

I have no idea how good GW2 will be, but I know its the MMORPG I'm most excited about. If SW:TOR was "free to play" I might consider it, but I've been burned too many times on pay-to-play MMORPGs...

Fluffiliscious · Aug 04, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

I was extremely excited when they announced GW2 but, yes, I do think they did so prematurely. I've kind of gotten past being excited about it and am kind of just tired of hearing everyone complain about the lack of information. I'll get excited all over again when beta is announced, when the release date is announced and when I can finally pre-order with a definitive release date. I'll be buying GW2 without a doubt. But, I still wish they would have waited.

Mordakai · Aug 04, 2009, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffiliscious

I was extremely excited when they announced GW2 but, yes, I do think they did so prematurely. I've kind of gotten past being excited about it and am kind of just tired of hearing everyone complain about the lack of information. I'll get excited all over again when beta is announced, when the release date is announced and when I can finally pre-order with a definitive release date. I'll be buying GW2 without a doubt. But, I still wish they would have waited.

They probably should have not announced plans to have a beta in 2008, that's for sure.

But they had to announce something, we were all expecting to hear info on the next campaign (Utopia).

ArenaNet was stuck: either announce too early and piss off people when no new info for GW2 came out, or not announce anything (not really an option).

Still, there are some valid criticisms: Anet could show us concept art, some more ideas, etc. I think you're right though, once that stuff starts coming out, people will get excited, and some of the pissing and moaning will stop (not all of it, obviously).

Fluffiliscious · Aug 04, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

I agree that since they decided to go ahead and announce it so far ahead of time they should have at least had something prepared to release every once in a while. Even small press releases about what kinds of features we can look forward to and how things are going.

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 04:02 PM // 16:02

It's the only thing that keeps me playing GW now knowing that GW2 will be out someday lol.

Ravious · Aug 04, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

I tend to agree, Shrimz, but it is interesting. ANet releases nothing about the pulse of their game. Their only "advertisement" as to life is X-fire (which is a pretty good one, IMHO). So are they really getting anything from people like you and me that play because GW2 is coming? I'd love to see a marketing perspective on this.

Mordakai · Aug 04, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravious

I tend to agree, Shrimz, but it is interesting. ANet releases nothing about the pulse of their game. Their only "advertisement" as to life is X-fire (which is a pretty good one, IMHO). So are they really getting anything from people like you and me that play because GW2 is coming? I'd love to see a marketing perspective on this.

What do you mean by "getting anything?" Do you mean money, or what?

I'd like to see numbers on how well the Store is doing... I know I've bought $30 worth of "updates" since April.

But in terms of "marketing", I think the number of threads about GW2 (albeit, mostly complaints) is a good indication that there is still interest about GW2...

I guess, if not good for Anet, it's at least good for guru. (I wonder if Inde would be willing to discuss traffic patterns on the site during "downtimes").

Ravious · Aug 04, 2009, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Like does my playing Guild Wars still have some "worth" to ANet from a marketing standpoint? Are their current sales stemming significantly from current players? And, I am not talking about forumgoers (who don't have to play GW). I am talking about people in the game.

Mordakai · Aug 04, 2009, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravious

Like does my playing Guild Wars still have some "worth" to ANet from a marketing standpoint? Are their current sales stemming significantly from current players? And, I am not talking about forumgoers (who don't have to play GW). I am talking about people in the game.

Well, having a base of loyal players is obviously a good thing for GW2. But I think GW2 will bring back players who have quit / never played as well.

I'd like to see how many unique accounts GW has, not total sales across 3 Campaigns and one expansion.

What are the X-fire numbers, BTW?

Ravious · Aug 04, 2009, 04:33 PM // 16:33

xfire.com > today's top games

guild wars is consistently in the top ten

Brett Kuntz · Aug 04, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by headlesshobbs

Ok I have a serious topic here to bring up.

When Anet decided it was time to start working on the next game, we already took that as a sign this one wasn't going to be around much longer and for obvious reasons. The main thing is the dev team will no longer focus on expanding or trying to make real improvements while the community either waits out doing something else or migrating to other games such as Aion.

I'm quite disappointed with this overall. Take a good look at Warcraft, sure they're our primary competitor, but they're still on the same game and after having only 2 expansions they're still going strong due to the fact that the support team is able to keep things updated with new content and all kinds of perks. Look at Everquest, they have 8... 12... god knows how many expansions they've gone through and they were able to focus on the original for several years before finally deciding it was time to move on. So how do we compare?

3 campaigns, 1 mashed down to an expansion, very minor updates and a team that could have continued to build on this for a few more years, yet they decided to dump early and make way for the next chapter. Truth be told If any development for GW2 were held back at least another 3-5 years, who knows just how much better this one would have been and maybe for once it would grow to be on level with Blizzard's offering.

Overall Anet has proven to be it's own kind of monster.

Your thoughts?

You're comparing a free game that originally cost $39 in 2005 versus subscription games like WoW that cost people a total of $960 so far?

Gee wiz I wonder why Blizzard, who's received $960 from every player, can afford to release content updates all the time versus ArenaNET that's only received $39.

If you compare GW to Diablo, Warcraft, and Starcraft, other free games, you quickly realize not even Blizzard releases free content for their games after release, let alone 4 years after release. Blizzard pumps out a tiny useless patch every 18 months, but that is hardly worthy of being considered content.

imnotyourmother · Aug 04, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Well there is still lots to do for me...

Mordakai · Aug 04, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravious

xfire.com > today's top games

guild wars is consistently in the top ten

8,760 GW players vs 101,536 WoW players.... geez. That's unbelievable.

Is X-fire US only? Is there anyway to figure out the number of WoW players vs the number of X-fire WoW player? That could give a rough estimate of player to xfire ratio, and from there we could estimate GW active players.

For reference: current Warhammer 40k: DoW (an RTS game) is 2,207

Warhammer: Age of Reckoning: 2,037

Age of Conan: 1,735

Gigashadow · Aug 04, 2009, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Xfire numbers are better for comparing a game to its own xfire numbers at an earlier date and looking for large changes; e.g. Warhammer xfire numbers started high and then dropped off a cliff. And of course it's still assuming that xfire users are a good proxy for a game's entire playerbase (not strictly true, but may actually be true enough to still be a useful indicator, but I don't think anyone knows for sure).

House Silvermoon · Aug 04, 2009, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuntz

You're comparing a free game that originally cost $39 in 2005 versus subscription games like WoW that cost people a total of $960 so far?

Gee wiz I wonder why Blizzard, who's received $960 from every player, can afford to release content updates all the time versus ArenaNET that's only received $39.

If you compare GW to Diablo, Warcraft, and Starcraft, other free games, you quickly realize not even Blizzard releases free content for their games after release, let alone 4 years after release. Blizzard pumps out a tiny useless patch every 18 months, but that is hardly worthy of being considered content.

I think this man knows a bit about what he is saying.

Toxic OnyX · Aug 05, 2009, 01:59 PM // 13:59

The bit that your missing as I have said in another thread (and in threads before this) is that A-net are owned by NCSoft, do you honestly think that NCSoft will allow one of their subsidiaries to release a beta to a new MMO (assuming GW2 is an actual MMO this time) when they are about to release their new flagship MMO

Aion is due to release on 25th September, it is an almost dead certainty that they will have a clause to supoerceed on releases, meaning that NCSofts flagship takes precedence in release, assuming this is the case you would expect such a clause to have a 12 month period, so I wouldn't expect to see any type of beta or fully fleshed information to hit until the latter end of 2010.

A-net are a very small fish and owned to NCSoft, Aion is the money train for NCSoft so GW2 whilst it may be released will simply be told to wait until they have established the market for Aion (which is a fantastic game btw)

In short expect nothing for a year and you won't be disappointed (other than with a-net normal lack of competency with updates etc)

Mordakai · Aug 05, 2009, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic OnyX

The bit that your missing as I have said in another thread (and in threads before this) is that A-net are owned by NCSoft, do you honestly think that NCSoft will allow one of their subsidiaries to release a beta to a new MMO (assuming GW2 is an actual MMO this time) when they are about to release their new flagship MMO

Aion is due to release on 25th September, it is an almost dead certainty that they will have a clause to supoerceed on releases, meaning that NCSofts flagship takes precedence in release, assuming this is the case you would expect such a clause to have a 12 month period, so I wouldn't expect to see any type of beta or fully fleshed information to hit until the latter end of 2010.

A-net are a very small fish and owned to NCSoft, Aion is the money train for NCSoft so GW2 whilst it may be released will simply be told to wait until they have established the market for Aion (which is a fantastic game btw)

In short expect nothing for a year and you won't be disappointed (other than with a-net normal lack of competency with updates etc)

Why would you assume a 12 month blackout?

True, I don't expect any GW info until after Aion is released in the West, but once Aion is out there, there's no reason to keep stealth on GW2.

You could have an open beta late this year or early next year, and release the game in April, 2010. (NOTE: Not saying this will happen, just saying it's a possibility.)

There's no reason to wait 12 months!

I also take issue with "A-net are a very small fish and owned to NCSoft".

While it's true that Guild Wars currently only accounts for 3% of NCSoft profits, this is an aberration. http://www.gamespot.com/news/6209476.html

A year ago Guild Wars was 12% (CoH/CoV was 7%) http://www.gamespot.com/news/6190983.html

Historically, it's been around 14%. http://www.gamespot.com/news/6170305.html

While not an important as Lineage, Guild Wars is an important part of NCSoft profits, and is their best known Western game.

Toxic OnyX · Aug 05, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Hence it is a little fish 14% is not a substantial stake at all and 3% will be it's representation at best going forward as GW is dying not growing.

the reason for 12 months? simple, not only do they release but will expect to establish a playerbase before allowing any potential competition from one of their own stable

There is no chance they will release Aion and then a month later say OK guys you can release your Beta's now, they will want an established player base with bought gametime to recoup the outlay of marketing and developing the game in the first instance.

it is simple economics and marketing analysis, the consumer is still provided with the end product, monies are recouped and an establish monetary base secured, then they can let others open the doors to their offerings in the secure knowledge of an established playerbase, they may do this as early as 6 months but I would find that doubtful and find 12 months to be more plausible.

Mordakai · Aug 05, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic OnyX

Hence it is a little fish 14% is not a substantial stake at all and 3% will be it's representation at best going forward as GW is dying not growing.

the reason for 12 months? simple, not only do they release but will expect to establish a playerbase before allowing any potential competition from one of their own stable

There is no chance they will release Aion and then a month later say OK guys you can release your Beta's now, they will want an established player base with bought gametime to recoup the outlay of marketing and developing the game in the first instance.

it is simple economics and marketing analysis, the consumer is still provided with the end product, monies are recouped and an establish monetary base secured, then they can let others open the doors to their offerings in the secure knowledge of an established playerbase, they may do this as early as 6 months but I would find that doubtful and find 12 months to be more plausible.

Seems extreme to me.

If companies followed a 12 month blackout before they released 2 games, nothing would ever be released...

For example, to you think Blizzard will wait 12 months between releasing StarCraft 2 and Diablo 3?

6 months doesn't seem doubtful to me... it gives time to establish the Aion marketshare, but at the same time doesn't leave ArenaNet hanging in the wind. (I'm sure NCSoft wants some money to come from ArenaNet after paying for 3 years of development for Guild Wars 2!)

The other point is that even though these are both NCSoft published MMOs, that's where the similarity ends.

Aion is a monthly fee, grind-heavy, item-based typical MMO (from what I hear).

We don't know how much grind GW2 will have, but if it's anything like GW1, grind will be optional. It will be free of monthly fees. In short, these 2 MMOs will probably not be in direct competition, and for those who like both, they can buy both.

It would be interesting to see the breakdown of users once these games come out: My guess would be that Aion is going to continue to be very popular in the East, while GW2 will be more popular in the West. Obviously, some overlap, but that's just my take.

Mister_Smiley · Aug 05, 2009, 06:20 PM // 18:20

They announced it to early, but i can understand why they did it and as much as i hate it, there is nothing i can do to control it. I expect Anet to give more information out after Aion hits, but this being a company that lies a lot, i don't expect to here anything GW2 related till around the time the first book comes out.