Curse

Karate Jesus · Aug 24, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

PvX not existing wouldn't change anything, since nearly everything on there comes from obs mode anyway.

Obs mode AND PvE whoring. Like I said earlier, PvX just stores the shit. GW players are the ones you guys should be pissed at.

Scythe O F Glory · Aug 24, 2009, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth The Xx

PvX is a good source, no denying that. There is a REASON those builds are up there, simply because they are the (arguably) the best or close to it. People wouldn't rate the builds so highly if they sucked.

There's only about 20 people that actually are regular members of PvX, and they are all friends. So the build doesnt usually matter, just the person that made it. Their friends will 5-5-X anything for them. I've seen builds (made by non-regulars) get trashed, only to be made again by one of these regulars, and rated Great.

Karate Jesus · Aug 24, 2009, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scythe O F Glory

There's only about 20 people that actually are regular members of PvX, and they are all friends. So the build doesnt usually matter, just the person that made it. Their friends will 5-5-X anything for them. I've seen builds (made by non-regulars) get trashed, only to be made again by one of these regulars, and rated Great.

Lol, there are a lot more active members than that, and trust me they're not all friends. Hell, half of them hate each other. However, there are a few members who get a lot of builds vetted, but that's typically because they obs'd it or PvE whor'd it.

EDIT: Apparently, the word for a Lady of the Night that rhymes with door gets RED ENGINE'd. Who knew?

snaek · Aug 24, 2009, 03:42 PM // 15:42

standardized teambuilds existed long before pvx did i.e. pet/barrage. variations to pvx builds do exist, and if the party leader doesn't except your variation either hes bad or your bad. what really ruins pve is 1) broken skills and 2) broken hm mechanics limiting options.

pvp side of pvx is very slow to update. hardly affects anything other than helping random pve'rs trying to get into pvp without any help from an experienced pvp'r. hardly a bad thing.

Coverticus · Aug 24, 2009, 05:20 PM // 17:20

I agree with Snaek in that the standardised build were certainly available before PvX and templates existed, you just had to work a little harder to create your build from your notes or spreadsheet with the skills and attibutes.

Unfortunately, with tools like PvX, whenever these are available to masses, it will be indeed used as gospel. The average player will more than likely look at PvX and see that a particular build is highly rated and therefore would (wrongly) assume that most of GW players are using it. Therefore he/she must.

The creativity of builds from players also suffers too because of this kinda tool - most do not have to think about it now. Grab the skills, load it, use it.

PvX though will never do one certain thing though - teach the player how to use the build.

To me, PvX is one part of lore that has made GW broken. In my own humble opinion, the worst aspect of GW now is that the average age mentality is now in single figures. Gone is the more "mature" attitude from early GW days.

As an example, my friend and I were sitting waiting in Gyala Hatchery for another friend to join us vanquishing Maishang Hills. So party of 7/8. Cue an assassin "LFG mission". Adds himself to us 3 times, which I decline each time. At this point "You f*****g retard".... "You need to learn how to play the game".... "Nooob"..."As.....e". To which I politely pointed out we were VQing and not missioning and, if he still had a problem in the way I/we played, he should take it up with the nearest available authorities.

It's that general attitude that has killed the game (mainly PUGs). No wonder so many people want 7 heroes.

Lykan · Aug 24, 2009, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Just ping it and then change it back.

Karate Jesus · Aug 24, 2009, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Jim

To me, PvX is one part of lore that has made GW broken. In my own humble opinion, the worst aspect of GW now is that the average age mentality is now in single figures. Gone is the more "mature" attitude from early GW days.

As an example, my friend and I were sitting waiting in Gyala Hatchery for another friend to join us vanquishing Maishang Hills. So party of 7/8. Cue an assassin "LFG mission". Adds himself to us 3 times, which I decline each time. At this point "You f*****g retard".... "You need to learn how to play the game".... "Nooob"..."As.....e". To which I politely pointed out we were VQing and not missioning and, if he still had a problem in the way I/we played, he should take it up with the nearest available authorities.

Imo, there never were "more mature" days of GW. Video game players in general are either very young, or very immature. Just grow a tougher skin and get used to it.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Aug 24, 2009, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Observe mode destroyed pvp.

Grumpy · Aug 24, 2009, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

Just ping it and then change it back.

Well, that's just a great mentality isn't it.

The Juggernauot · Aug 24, 2009, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerlin

Why would you blame PvXwiki as the cause of the ingame mentality? PvXwiki is an incredible tool that i use to base buids on and customize them to my own liking. PvXwiki has nothing to do AT ALL with the fact that most people ingame act like 6 year olds and can only see black and white and don't have the common sense yet to develope the area grey where not standard builds exsist to actually work super.

The cancer that is destroying the game is the mentality of the people who play it. Nothing else can destroy a game. Also most of the time the people who act like little kids blame other stuff for their own incompetence. Just look at this forum, hundreds of people complain about the most dumb things that "destroy" the game but are mostly just random annoyance of the game. They wish for the game to be perfect and molded to their liking. Spoiled brats is what i would call them.

Amen brother!

Angel Killuminati · Aug 24, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

I guess looking at it from different perspectives having played the game from the very start I see both sides of the argument. For new players to the game in general it's great, and perhaps for new players to any aspect of the game - pvp, pve, running, farming, just so you have a basic idea of what's expected. It does get on peoples nerves though that what pvx writes is gospel and you need to run that build without any changes at all. For example, I recently got into an AB group, (I've maxed both alliance titles btw) and I was running a solo capping build, not the best for team play I know, (I wanted to cap shrines quickly while my team picked off the loose scraps,) but the leader demanded I change the build that takes shrines down in 3 seconds, to a longer build of AoE skills - so basically the second build wasn't built for team play either! I was quite mad and left. My point is that sometimes people don't appreciate creativity...EVEN THOUGH IT WAS BETTER.

From my own perspective, I don't use pvx for any of my heroes because when I bring them I like them to synergise with my character. A basic example being when I use my Elementalist using Searing Flames, I might bring Hayda with 'They're on fire' and 'glowing signet' for her energy management. I don't just stick to whatever pvx says, because it might not give me full potential with my team and the character I'm running. Sure you can play with any build and potentially do ok, but having a good think about things can make it 20, 40, 60% better etc.

I can see both sides of the argument having been in numerous situations myself so it's a hard call. As for pvx being erased, it won't happen, because copycat websites will be quickly created. You're always going to have a 'builds' website I'm sure.

[MLM]Will Run · Aug 24, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Posts 11, 12, 17 I'm in full agreement with.

moriz · Aug 24, 2009, 07:48 PM // 19:48

people who thinks pvx is bad for the game, and then claim that their own "unique snowflake" builds are better, are the ones who don't realize that there's a human element in playing GW. execution of said build matters. if you have a build disadvantage, but is sufficiently stronger as a player than your opponent, then you will likely win. that doesn't mean your build is actually better though. case in point: my shove assassin build that i love to run around in low end pvp (AB primarily). it's utter crap compared to the standardized builds out there, but i can still win consistently with it, because i am consistently better than most of the players there.

and no, pvx doesn't add nor detract anything from the game. long before its existence, people were already running standardized builds. it's merely a convenient place to store those builds.

Athrun Feya · Aug 24, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

You'll be surprised, there are voters in pvx that would vote against a build or even trashed simply because they dont want it to be leaked out to the public.

If you think that the accepted builds are the best builds posted to pvx, think again.

Lol, this is the most bullshit comment I've seen in a while (and I'm a regular PvX user - trust me I see a lot of shit).

Once a good build is up, whether it is in userspace or the buildspace, it is indefinately publically available and BMs and Admins remove retarded votes. We do get a large number of user's who like to vandalise popular pages claiming they made it and noone else should use it, but nothing undo cant fix.

I'd say the builds are the optimum builds for a PuG group/less experienced group. For example, the absolute optimum build/tactics by experienced guilds for FoWSC will get you < 15 minutes, but a random PuG in ToA has no chance of running this, so a suitable build is posted instead. If anyone does want to go for that 15 minute run, they will just have to think for themselves a little and take friends or guildies - i think it is unreasonable to expect random groups to be able to perform quite that highly.

glacialphoenix · Aug 24, 2009, 08:07 PM // 20:07

It's a handy resource, and it's good for giving people ideas for a build. You can use it well, or you can use it badly. You can take everything it has as the gospel truth, or you can look at what it offers and tweak that until you get the results you want.

It's not PvX's fault that so many people take it as the only thing that works. It's not PvX's fault that many people copy builds off it mindlessly because they are told to, and then proceed to play said builds badly. That's the player's fault. If I don't know anything about the class, I'd go look for ideas before trying to slap a build together, and I'd probably take a look at the stuff in PvX, because it's a database of builds.

I would not take the whole thing as the only viable bar, as so many PUGs are doing. That's an issue with mentality. I think PvX made it such that people didn't have to go sit down and think hard over their builds, which was both good and bad: good because most players could pick up what SHOULD be a decent bar. Bad because after that, it's anyone's guess whether the person running said 'decent skillbar' is actually capable of using it. Of course, it also provided an expedient method for PUGs to check someone's bar, especially if they weren't familiar with the class in question, and if many of them took it to mean 'Only PvX bars are good enough'? Ultimately, that's their fault. Not PvX's. You cannot blame PvX if players decide to take it too seriously.

Foe · Aug 24, 2009, 08:51 PM // 20:51

No because seeing the term "wiki noobs" or "pvx noob" used in game always makes me laugh. Whats funny is this is like the basement level argument for build honor. Some dude running a mark of protection e/mo with lorb and chain lightning in ra getting mad at the "wiki noob" apply ranger for not having the ingenuity to play dumb/less powerful builds. Its essentially the same argument that's made against [rawr].

Konker2020 · Aug 24, 2009, 09:23 PM // 21:23

In short, yes it is.

HawkofStorms · Aug 24, 2009, 10:09 PM // 22:09

People who kick you or get angry if you run a varient of a build are pretty stupid... mainly because they likely don't understand the mechanics of why some skills are needed or why some varients would be better. That's a problem with them.

However, PvX isn't the problem. People still copy and pasted builds off people from forums, etc.

The problem is people who can't think for themselves and use those things as a crutch. They are the first people to come on a forum and complain "WAH you nerfed Shadow Form/Ursan/etc." They also like to complain when a skill gets buffed that they use or a new functionality, mainly because they don't understand the game mechanics enough to even realize the skill got a buff, not a nerf.

Konker2020 · Aug 24, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

People who kick you or get angry if you run a varient of a build are pretty stupid... mainly because they likely don't understand the mechanics of why some skills are needed or why some varients would be better. That's a problem with them.

However, PvX isn't the problem. People still copy and pasted builds off people from forums, etc.

The problem is people who can't think for themselves and use those things as a crutch. They are the first people to come on a forum and complain "WAH you nerfed Shadow Form/Ursan/etc." They also like to complain when a skill gets buffed that they use or a new functionality, mainly because they don't understand the game mechanics enough to even realize the skill got a buff, not a nerf.

In full length, this. Well spoken.

Krill · Aug 24, 2009, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Conceptually it's great, the problem (with PvX itself) is more how it's ran. A small group of generally terrible players with little understanding of the game have too much control over voting and others often vote as they do. PvP wise, outside low ranked HA pugs I think people are smart enough to think for themselves with alterations to meta builds or entirely new ones.

I'm sure it's far worse for PvE though and can understand how PvX is seen as a strangle on creativity for puggers (but is there any creativity in PvE?).