Curse

Beta Sprite · Sep 30, 2009, 04:50 PM // 16:50

I want to know what people really think about this subject. I have a little story here explaining how I came to wondering about it. If you just want to answer the questions I have without worrying about why I'm asking, they are at the bottom. Please do not attack anyone for the opinions that they have posted in the thread.

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So, I saw a recruiter advertising for a Christian guild.
One player responded with: "What are you bringing religion into a game for?" and "Idiot, keep your religion out of the game"
Another player began talking about 'religious racism' and how America is so unaccepting of other religions. (Where did this even come from? No one was talking about it)
The first player then went off on his own excursion on how the guild was being made to discriminate anyone non-Christian.

This really shocked me. I quickly chimed in that creating a Christian guild wasn't 'bringing religion to the game.' (Maybe I should have worded that differently, but I'm not that quick at thinking of responses when I'm caught completely off-guard.)
This is what I was thinking: When I saw the advertisement for a Christian guild, I assumed that it would mostly just want its members to avoid using profanity, being disrespectful, or trying to rip each other off. Most of the Christian guilds I've been in didn't require that you were Christian. They just wanted to have decent, helpful people for their members. (Yes, just so it's clear, I am Christian. No, I wouldn't have taken a different stance if the guild being advertised had been Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, or any other religion, although I feel that the player who was outraged in the first place might have reacted differently)

The first player told me to shut up, called me several names, and then began mocking me that I contradicted myself by saying a Christian guild wasn't religious (which isn't really what I meant). I tried to ask some other questions to get a rational response (also, to clarify what I had said before), but he continued to spam 2-3 word insults and didn't want to hear anything I had to say.

I don't know if the recruiter was even in the outpost anymore at this point. He hadn't said anything since his recruiting message.

I left without responding, since it didn't seem like I would get anywhere by trying to argue my point. Apparently, I had already invalidated my 'right' to say anything in the eyes of this other player.

The whole situation leaves me wondering about the general thoughts of other players, though. I figure that players are more likely to be reasonable on the forums than randomly in game, so here I am.

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Here are my questions, if you care to answer them. I am interested in all responses:
Are you offended by or do you object to guilds that are started around religions?
What do you think about guilds that follow moral teachings (no profanity, be respectable, etc.) without outright declaring themselves part of a religion? (This is how my current guild is. We're mostly Christians, but we don't really advertise it)

Reformed · Sep 30, 2009, 05:00 PM // 17:00

No more offended than when they are dragged into the wikis or it's presented anywhere else generally secular. I say either let them all in or exclude them all. Piecemeal handling of these things because it's "cool" to be anti-Christian right now in the west is at best hypocrisy if not blatant intolerance. This is a lot like politics though...as the saying goes it's best to avoid it in polite company.

BlackSephir · Sep 30, 2009, 05:03 PM // 17:03

They're okay if they keep their mouths shut about how their religion is right, don't try to "convert" people and keep away from atheist guilds.

But I do wonder what do christian guilds do in the game? Hopefully they don't kill stuff.

snaek · Sep 30, 2009, 05:04 PM // 17:04

nothing wrong with trying to recruit people with similar interests. if people are not interested, they can simply not join or ignore. it would be bad if people tried to start enforcing their beliefs on other people, but this is usually very hard to come across.

Still Number One · Sep 30, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Are you offended by or do you object to guilds that are started around religions?

No. I am not religious myself, but I have no problem with those who are. Everyone is entitled to believe what they want, whether it is Christianity, Islam, Hindu, etc.

As long as they aren't causing anyone harm there is nothing wrong with Guilds like these. If they begin to try to push their ideals on other people and put down others because they do not believe the same things, then they are in the wrong and I have a problem with them.

If you are religious and would like a guild filled with people who are also religious, that is great and you should seek it out. People should be in guilds with people who they like and get along with. Religion can help with that. Just don't harm others and keep your beliefs within the guild.

What do you think about guilds that follow moral teachings (no profanity, be respectable, etc.) without outright declaring themselves part of a religion? (This is how my current guild is. We're mostly Christians, but we don't really advertise it)

It is fine. If there are people who are offended by things like profanity and would like to keep it out of their guild, they are entitled to do so. Those of us who use profanity on a regular basis (I'm guilty of this) can look elsewhere for a guild. Everyone is entitled to be able to play the game to their utmost enjoyment as long as it doesn't infringe upon the enjoyment of others (exceptions being PvP matches because one has to win at the expense of another).

While not all of us hold the same Ethics and Morals as one another, we all should try to respect everyone's values. The people who use profanity should respect those who don't and the people who don't should respect those who do. If your guild has a no profanity rule then you have every right to keep profanity out of your guild. You however do not have the right to tell people outside of your guild they can't use profanity. There is a language filter for that. Unless they are directly attacking you or someone with foul language, they are entitled to speak as they wish.

These are just my opinions and do not reflect upon A.net, Guru, or anything else except for me, blah blah blah.

zelgadissan · Sep 30, 2009, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Are you offended by or do you object to guilds that are started around religions? - Don't care, it doesn't affect gameplay so it's pretty much irrelevant

What do you think about guilds that follow moral teachings (no profanity, be respectable, etc.) without outright declaring themselves part of a religion? - Don't care, it doesn't affect gameplay so it's pretty much irrelevant

For the record, if you couldn't tell from my responses above, the best way to describe my views is apathetic agnosticism.

MirkoTeran · Sep 30, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

Are you offended by or do you object to guilds that are started around religions?

No. They can do what they want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

What do you think about guilds that follow moral teachings (no profanity, be respectable, etc.) without outright declaring themselves part of a religion? (This is how my current guild is. We're mostly Christians, but we don't really advertise it)

I wouldn't join one.

In general, I don't care about religion until it has some effect on me [usually in the form of someone trying to push it on to me].

Shayne Hawke · Sep 30, 2009, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Out of sight, out of mind.

wilderness · Sep 30, 2009, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

But I do wonder what do christian guilds do in the game? Hopefully they don't kill stuff.

I hope that was tongue in cheek.

While I find the notion of organised religion fascinatingly terrifying, people are free to include/exclude whoever they wish from their guilds or any social networks.

If it's not directly hurting anyone else, then there's no reason to make a fuss.

slowerpoke · Sep 30, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

no more offensive than any other guild with a prerequisite condition to join

Lihinel · Sep 30, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49

A christian guild?
Dwayna help us, thats even worse than those bloody luxon.
What are those heathens doing on Tyria anyway?

May Balthasar smite them!

Captain Bulldozer · Sep 30, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49

It seems to me that people who have to seek out a religiously themed guild in this game have some issues. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there's fundamentally anything wrong with a religiously themed guild, but it is at least a bit discriminatory.

The OP asserts that when he see "Christian Guild" he means one in which there is no profanity, a general moral standard and respectful behavior towards guild mates. To that, I say the following, and this is addressed to anyone with a similar believe: Pull your head out of your ass. Its time people of ALL faiths started realizing that the moral standards of real world, modern society are not limited to your personal believe system. None of the values listed are even remotely limited to a particular religion nor are they limited to people following religions in general.

With that in mind, is a guild recruiting ONLY Christian members fundamentally any different from a guild recruiting ONLY white members? Both ideas are predicated around the view that a certain classification of individuals, religion or race in this case, insures certain desirable qualities (or from a different perspective, eliminate certain undesirable qualities) which I have to say is a really ignorant and insecure point of view. I also believe its quite unhealthy to only socialize with people of similar belief systems as yourself... it only serves to encourage people to focus on their differences rather than their similarities, and thus serves a divisive function.

That being said, there's really nothing wrong with asking for guild members to be respectful, non-profane and to follow the general standards of modern society (which includes not stealing/scamming etc). Those standards exist for the good of society inside the game or outside the game. In my guild the topic of religion basically never comes up. If it did I doubt any of us would seriously care what religion the others people happen to be (if any). What matters is that people get along, have fun and don't make the game experience less fun for others.

Beta Sprite · Sep 30, 2009, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

They're okay if they keep their mouths shut about how their religion is right, don't try to "convert" people and keep away from atheist guilds.

But I do wonder what do christian guilds do in the game? Hopefully they don't kill stuff.

I actually agree with you about not trying to "convert" people in the game, and staying away from a dedicated atheist guilds just makes sense if you don't want the environment. Doing either of those things would just foster annoyance and anger on both sides.

Although, being part of a non-Christian guild has worked for me just fine in the past. I didn't throw my beliefs around, and people generally respected me for being me.

Christian guilds play the game like everyone else does. We party up for UW, FoW, Urgoz, and The Deep. We sell each other items at reduced prices, show each other builds, and help each other with missions.
As for the idea that we shouldn't 'kill stuff'... it's a game. If the violence of a game affects you mentally, you probably shouldn't be playing it, Christian or not. If it doesn't affect you mentally, then why can't you just enjoy it? =)

Cuilan · Sep 30, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Since Guild Wars is a single player game, there isn't any need to have local chat on. Just turn it off and find a guild that suits you.

Snow Bunny · Sep 30, 2009, 05:58 PM // 17:58

What the hell ever happened to leaving things alone that don't concern you?

mathiastemplar · Sep 30, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

People can do as they want...
I could not care less about religion in Guild Wars (and in gerneral).
+ People freaking out in local chat about subjects like this should just /uninstall.
Religion based guilds are fine, as long as they stick to the EULA
Anyways.. Never take anything personal online =)

jray14 · Sep 30, 2009, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

Are you offended by or do you object to guilds that are started around religions?

Nope, fine with me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

What do you think about guilds that follow moral teachings (no profanity, be respectable, etc.) without outright declaring themselves part of a religion? (This is how my current guild is. We're mostly Christians, but we don't really advertise it)

Sounds good to me!

I think all those rude reactions are just misdirected anger about fundamentalism.

Lihinel · Sep 30, 2009, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

When I saw the advertisement for a Christian guild, I assumed that it would mostly just want its members to avoid using profanity, being disrespectful, or trying to rip each other off.

Funny, I would assume they would be spamming "all" chat with messages such as "W/Mo in Glad Armor & Male Mesmers are F4gs!" & go around towns at sundays asking for 1p donations, so that people may get a better chance to gain access to their gods realm after deleting their character.

"Grenth is my balance,
my beginning and my end.
His scythe shall bear me home."

Winnies Bro · Sep 30, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

You however do not have the right to tell people outside of your guild they can't use profanity.

True. This reminds me of the deleted scence from Borat in the petshop, and Borat told the lady that he worshiped a hawk (giant hawk or something) and the lady said that that was an idol and that he shouldn't do that.

N1ghtstalker · Sep 30, 2009, 06:09 PM // 18:09

hope not cuz i'm planning on making one that's named after a metalcore band who'se name involves burning and heaven
u followin?