Curse

Lhim · Aug 30, 2009, 02:09 PM // 14:09

I'd like to see a solution much like the dying nightmares. Random pops in unpredictable places. While they are at it, they should add those to every dungeon as well.

Killamus · Aug 30, 2009, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Behold. A sad farmer. What an amusing species. Hopefully soon to be extinct.

I'm confused, what's bad about farming? I hate to break it to you, but without farming a Q9 gold weapon would be like 50k. And no one would buy it because no one would have the gold to do so.

Because, let's face it, what defines farming? Doing something for tangible profit. If you go out and do a quest for money, that's farming. If you do it for fun, then it's not.

I don't really consider myself a farmer because I do these things for, yes, fun. The profit is a nice (Albeit very nice) bonus.

As it stands now, unless you get a lucky drop, there are far more profitable ways to earn money then most speed clears.

Let's break it down. All include the end chest.
1-2e = 4.2-8.2k
4-5 unids = 1.6k-2k
Various other drops = 2k (I'm being very liberal here)
1-2 UW scrolls = 1-2k

So, assuming the max, in 30 minutes that tallies out to about 14k. This doesn't include the time it takes to get everyone together, collect for cons, etc. Add in another 15 minutes.

So in 45 minutes, you get about 15k. Roughly 333g/minute.

That's HORRIBLE. With kegging, you got 1-3 unids per 2 minutes, that alone is equal to what you'd get from UWSCs. Not to mention whites, which you'd salvage for mats, glacial stones which sell for 50g/ea, mesmer tomes 400-500g/ea.

And before you go all "OoO but look everyone is doing it in 8 minutes boohoo" on me, let's face it: Only the elite of the elite can do it in under 20. My shortest UWSC out of maybe 30-40 has been 19 minutes. Most of them have been alliance. 75% of the time someone dies (usually mountains) and that right there will almost double your time.

Pugs rarely get under the 25 minute mark, most requiring a backup. Also it takes 20-30 minutes just to get a group if you're going pug.

It's not really as efficient as everyone thinks it is. Oh yea, some groups are doing it in under 8 minutes, but that's perhaps 1% of everyone who does them.

aga · Aug 30, 2009, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

Pugs rarely get under the 25 minute mark, most requiring a backup. Also it takes 20-30 minutes just to get a group if you're going pug.

It's not really as efficient as everyone thinks it is. Oh yea, some groups are doing it in under 8 minutes, but that's perhaps 1% of everyone who does them.

Most of the pug groups I go in (unless someone fails us) finish under 25mins, I'd say average time for pug (that finishes...) is around 22mins, but this helps if you have 1 or 2 poeple in the group who can cover other areas in decent times. When i join pug groups (which isn't very often) I pretty much always go as A/E, as A/E can cover any area, and 90% of pug groups have at least 1failure in them.

And since when does it take 20-30mins to get a group? are you one of those people who spam "exp pro waste or plains lfg no FAIL!!!!111!!!!1!!1"? (for those who don't know, plains and wastes are ecto farm areas). If you are one of those people then you can't really complain about how long it takes to get a group. Just learn all the areas, and it won't take long to find a group. Probably best to wait until you see 7/8 so they only need 1 area, then you will be getting in UW sooner.

A11Eur0 · Aug 30, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Without farming prices would be lower because there would be less cash in the pot. "Nobody would buy it because they'd have no money" would naturally cause the price to be reduced significantly.

But the definition of "farming" is vague...a group of 8 people can do the same thing over and over again for the same rewards, and that would be farming. It wouldn't be as efficient as the current "farms" but it still fits the definition.

Random popups with heavy-duty touch skills and signets would do it.

Bitoku Kishi · Sep 11, 2009, 06:44 PM // 18:44

I think the best way to nerf UWSC (which badly needs a nerf), is to change Shadow Form, in a fairly simple but what I feel would be a very effective way towards stopping the problems associated with it in the PvE game.

Here's how the skill reads now:
Energy Cost = 10
Casting Time = 1
Recharge Time = 45
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you deal 33% less damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health.

Here's how I think it should be to fix it's problems:
Energy Cost = 10
Casting Time = 1
Recharge Time = 30
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you deal 33% less damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health. You cannot activate Shadow Form while enchanted with Shadow Form.

What do you all think?

athariel · Sep 11, 2009, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

So much idiocy in this post my brain can't fathom how anyone can be so idiotic.

Has it ever occured to you that Shadow Form Assassins aren't the only way to make money? In general I can make more money feather farming (where I'm pretty much guaranteed 10k a run minimum, no fail) all day, or dungeon running with 600/Smite than clearing UWSC god knows how many times a day and hoping for that one lucky drop to balance out the time wasted.

What people want is an elite area to actually be just that, an elite area. Clearing UW on HM nowadays is hardly an achievement. It isn't about making money, anyone with half a brain can make cash easily enough if they want to, it's about the principle of something being so easily exploited when it's supposed to be god damned hard to do!

When you go to ToA and all you see is Assassins forming groups for speedclears, crying and screaming over exp players, and blacklists, that's when you know the elite areas in this game are well and truly going downhill.

It's like going into Granite Citadel yesteryear and seeing all the bots there, only they were probably capable of more intelligent conversation.

Awesome. You claim that permasins are imbalanced and farming with them is dumb, then you say you run dungeons with 600/Smite. Great.

I played GW for 3 years and UWSC is the best moneymaker I've found (I don't have a monk). If I farm enough money, maybe I'll get drunkard/sweettooth/party animal maxed, or I will buy myself a FoW armor.

If ANet wants to nerf SF, I hope they will nerf 600/Smite and 55Monk as well, because it's an obvious imbalance and flaw in the game design. Funniest thing is, I rarely see sins with expensive stuff, usually it's a Monk in FoW Armor, Crystalline Sword and Draconic Aegis or something like that.

madriel222 · Sep 11, 2009, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by athariel

I rarely see sins with expensive stuff

Had to laugh at this, ToA is a chaos gloves+fow armor convention XD.

HawkofStorms · Sep 11, 2009, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by athariel

If ANet wants to nerf SF, I hope they will nerf 600/Smite and 55Monk as well, because it's an obvious imbalance and flaw in the game design. Funniest thing is, I rarely see sins with expensive stuff, usually it's a Monk in FoW Armor, Crystalline Sword and Draconic Aegis or something like that.

/facepalm

Yes, because people can only have one character right.

athariel · Sep 11, 2009, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Obviously some people move their cash, but I'd expect to see more sins anyway. And Chaos Gloves aren't THAT expensive, compared to FoW armor (gloves are around 280k, fow armor is 900-1000k)

Firefly21 · Sep 11, 2009, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Shadow Form
10Enegy
1Cast
45Rechage
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and you cannot take damage from attacks, but you deal 33% less damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health.

With this nerf you’re still not taking damage but can get interrupted and conditions easier. This would kill a few farming spots but you would still be able to farm with shadow form.

My New Name · Sep 11, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

I'm confused, what's bad about farming? I hate to break it to you, but without farming a Q9 gold weapon would be like 50k. And no one would buy it because no one would have the gold to do so.

Because, let's face it, what defines farming? Doing something for tangible profit. If you go out and do a quest for money, that's farming. If you do it for fun, then it's not.

I don't really consider myself a farmer because I do these things for, yes, fun. The profit is a nice (Albeit very nice) bonus.

As it stands now, unless you get a lucky drop, there are far more profitable ways to earn money then most speed clears.

Let's break it down. All include the end chest.
1-2e = 4.2-8.2k
4-5 unids = 1.6k-2k
Various other drops = 2k (I'm being very liberal here)
1-2 UW scrolls = 1-2k

So, assuming the max, in 30 minutes that tallies out to about 14k. This doesn't include the time it takes to get everyone together, collect for cons, etc. Add in another 15 minutes.

So in 45 minutes, you get about 15k. Roughly 333g/minute.

That's HORRIBLE. With kegging, you got 1-3 unids per 2 minutes, that alone is equal to what you'd get from UWSCs. Not to mention whites, which you'd salvage for mats, glacial stones which sell for 50g/ea, mesmer tomes 400-500g/ea.

And before you go all "OoO but look everyone is doing it in 8 minutes boohoo" on me, let's face it: Only the elite of the elite can do it in under 20. My shortest UWSC out of maybe 30-40 has been 19 minutes. Most of them have been alliance. 75% of the time someone dies (usually mountains) and that right there will almost double your time.

Pugs rarely get under the 25 minute mark, most requiring a backup. Also it takes 20-30 minutes just to get a group if you're going pug.

It's not really as efficient as everyone thinks it is. Oh yea, some groups are doing it in under 8 minutes, but that's perhaps 1% of everyone who does them.

uhm kegging got nerfed like 2 months ago?
and besides mesmer tomes do NOT go for 500 gold...

QueenofDeath · Sep 12, 2009, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Nerf SF, 600 monks, 55 monks, Osidian eles, trapping rangers and anything else that exploits the game with easy kills and fast loot. I'm all for that /signed.

Killamus · Sep 12, 2009, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelorin Eshmar

uhm kegging got nerfed like 2 months ago?
and besides mesmer tomes do NOT go for 500 gold...

(A) I was using that as an example
(B) Mesmer tomes sell quite easily for 500-600g, that's what I sell mine at (Sold ~A stack and a half at that price, over the past 6 months)

athariel · Sep 12, 2009, 08:24 AM // 08:24

btw, can someone enlighten me what's the imbalanced farm build with obsidian flesh? I can't think of any except for vaettir farm?

Axeman002 · Sep 12, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

add incubus with soul rending shriek hehe

HawkofStorms · Sep 12, 2009, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by athariel

btw, can someone enlighten me what's the imbalanced farm build with obsidian flesh? I can't think of any except for vaettir farm?

There is a partial DoA solo build with it I used to run.

Kurald Galain · Sep 12, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Make it so Shadowform can only be maintained with Consumables and change consumables to have a popup with the following text :

"You are about to use consumables. You forfeit any drop you might get. This includes all kinds of Chests. Do you wish to continue? Yes! No!"

slowerpoke · Sep 12, 2009, 04:44 PM // 16:44

they dug themselves into a hole with consumables and pve skills

SonofGrenth · Sep 12, 2009, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Give dying nightmares expunge enchantments.

shadeleaper · Sep 12, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36

honestly, I don't mind that other people are making lots of money on ectos and such with UWSC. Just brings down the price of ectos for the rest of us.